Exploring Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy's Hidden Healing Power, with Dr. Sherr

Join us in the latest episode of Crackin Backs where we take a deep dive into the exciting realms of hyperbaric oxygen medicine and brain health optimization with our esteemed guest, Dr. Scott Sherr.

A board-certified internal medicine physician, Dr. Sherr holds an additional certification in hyperbaric oxygen medicine and is a decorated alumnus of UCLA and the University of Maryland Medical School. He stands at the forefront of integrative hyperbaric care, exploring its applications far beyond treating 'the bends' in divers.

As one of the few physicians in the nation using a comprehensive approach to hyperbaric care, Dr. Sherr integrates targeted lab work, diet, and supplementation to augment the healing potential of hyperbaric oxygen therapy. His expertise is not confined to HBOT, he also wears the hat of the COO for Troscriptions, a company renowned for its 'troches', or methylene blue lozenges that hold transformative potential for brain health.

In this episode, Dr. Sherr addresses skeptics in the human performance, neurophysiology, and sports medicine worlds, making a compelling case for the power of hyperbaric therapy and methylene blue. He also discusses the impact of these treatments on traumatic brain injuries, concussions, and whiplashes.

Finally, we delve into the intriguing world of methylene blue lozenges as cognitive enhancers, exploring their use for mental cognition, restoring brain function after TBI, and even for dementia. Join us for this insightful journey as we dissect the latest advancements in integrative medicine and cognitive enhancement with Dr. Scott Sherr.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

Welcome back to cracking backs your sanctuary for uncovering the latest frontiers in medicine. Today, we are joined by an extraordinary guest Dr. Scott shear, a stalwart in the realm of internal and hyperbaric oxygen medicine. With prestigious academic accolades from UCLA and the University of Maryland. He is not just a hyperbaric oxygen therapy physician, but an innovator who's leading the charge and using an integrative approach to hyperbaric care. Dr. Sherr's. particular expertise lies in using H baht for traumatic brain injury and stroke, a topic he's lectured on from coast to coast, not just content and pushing the boundaries of traditional medicine. Dr. Sherr is also the chief operating officer of proscriptions, where he offers groundbreaking trophies or methylene, blue lodges and known authority on the use of methylene blue for brain optimization and its interaction with light. His insights are enlightening as they are intriguing. So buckle up, as we delve into the profound depths of hyperbaric medicine and beyond with Dr. Scott Sherr.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:25

Dr. Sherr or do you go by Dr. Scott, you know, it doesn't really, I guess it's all good. Thank you for being on the show we're honored to have yet and when Brian Mackenzie, when I asked Brian Mackenzie, who's a mutual friend, who he thought would be on the show, he didn't even hesitate because you got to get Dr. Scott on your show. He's all you know, he's fantastic when it comes to hype high bar or for those listening, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and everything that has to do with it. A lot of people think of hyperbaric chambers only for divers and the bends. And you've kind of exploded that and you broke out this out of this mold. And so can you explain how this, you find this technology applicable for beyond the diver and how you got into it?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 2:11

You know, Brian is a great guy. I'm glad you guys have had him on the podcast and chat a lot. He and I get very deep into the weeds when it comes to respiratory physiology and oxygen and the waste product that is carbon dioxide. I said that on purpose for Brian, he loves to call perma dioxide a waste product for you. And so I've been involved in the world of hyperbaric medicine now for over 10 years, I was a medical director of facility in San Francisco, it's kind of my first true hyperbaric gig in 2013. And now it's been over 10 years since that happened. And I've really enjoyed learning about this physiology, the physiology of hyperbaric therapy, the process the history, I mean, there's so much here to kind of dig into, I think for most people listening that the basic idea here is that these are wound healing chambers, these are optimizing chambers, these accelerate your goals kind of chamber, because what happens here is that we're getting more oxygen into the body, it's full stop. And as a result of that, when you get more oxygen in the body, you're going to do about four or five things. And you're going to do them in a significant way. But it depends on obviously the where you're starting where you want to go, how acute the issue how chronic the issue is, but in general, you're doing a couple of things, number one, number two, obviously, you're reversing low oxygen state, so you're reversing hypoxia. And by doing that, if you have an acute issue like an acute trauma, more significantly, like a stroke or traumatic brain injury, or a spinal cord injury, or a heart attack, or a limb trauma, if you can get oxygen to this tissue. At the time where it's compromised, you can potentially save a lot of this tissue from dying. Over the long term, when you can get oxygen into the tissue, you can create new blood vessels in the area that's been damaged or deteriorated or inflamed or things like that. And you can sustain that tissue over a long period of time. So number one, we're reversing the oxygen state. The second thing we're doing is decreasing inflammation. We do this immediately when you go into a hyperbaric environment, and you also decrease decrease. You decrease inflammation over the long term. Sorry about that guy's gonna just turn that off. It's kind of annoying. And I thought I did decrease on my notifications. The second thing you're doing is decreasing inflammation, you're doing that immediately when you go into the chamber. And then over the long term, you're actually down regulating the ways the body enhances inflammation or has a hard time dealing with inflammation over that long period of time. And inflammation and swelling go together. You can decrease inflammation, you decrease swelling and this is really important. Obviously if you have an acute trauma again when you have swelling and swelling can cause damage to tissue. Third thing we're doing is increasing stem cell release. Stem cells are the baby cells in the body that can make any new cell in the body that's required. If you have an injury if you have trauma if you have degeneration etc. So you're aware that you're decreasing hypoxia reversing hypoxia, you're decreasing inflammation and swelling, you're reversing steps, you're sorry, you're increasing stem cell release. Next thing you're doing is also you're killing bugs that do not like high oxygen environments. So by doing that, this is used very much in trauma settings, again, also, in facilities that treat severe infections like necrotizing fasciitis, or something like that, which is a flesh eating type of bacteria. That's pretty nasty. But I'd be like, there, we can reverse a lot of that, and can prevent a lot of the damage that can happen from that. We also in the chamber, increase flow, so increased blood flow into into into tissues. And we also decrease lymphatic flow out of tissues by creating something called structured water or easy water around blood vessels that helps with the flow in and out of tissue. So to sum up, the physiology is what I've described you getting more oxygen in circulation, you're getting more pressure in the city in the in the body to which we can talk about but in essence, you're you're reversing hypoxia, decreasing inflammation and swelling, you're killing bugs, you're increasing stem cell release, and you're increasing flow.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 6:06

There you go. That's great. I, I want to know what the skeptics say to you. And what do you commonly hear? I'm not one of them. But we see a lot of hyperbaric chambers used in sports performance searches with Dr. Terry and I are really very much involved in but you know, you got, you know, a variety of types of chambers. But what are the skeptics saying to you?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 6:32

Well, I think it really depends on the reason why they're being skeptical. I think there's a couple of different frames of reference here. I think the main one would be in the studies that have been performed in hyperbaric environments. The main challenge that you have in performing a study in a hyperbaric chamber is that in essence, what you want to do for most studies is have a placebo controlled trial, where you have somebody that does not get a therapy, or treatment and then somebody that does, and you compare them in a similar demographic group, and you see if there's a difference between the two. The problem with any surgery or any procedure is that it's difficult to do that when there's actually a procedure involved. So for example, they do this in people that get arthroscopic surgery for knee for like meniscal tear, we used to think that people needed to get these things repaired, or they would have significant difficulty over the long term, they get arthritis, they would have more deformity, they'd have more dysfunction. But they've done these studies over the years now they do sham treatments where they do, somebody gets the meniscal repair, and then somebody just gets a surgical incision, but they don't do anything, right. So that's the sham surgery. And they found over the years that for most people that have meniscal tears and arthroscopic surgeries are not really worth the time or the effort, they actually increase your risk of getting arthritis over the short term, as opposed to just doing PT, working and working on and doing physiologic kinds of things and range of motion, etc. So the same thing kind of applies in hyperbaric therapy, the idea would be, you're trying to compare somebody that goes into a hyperbaric chamber, and gets treatment, versus somebody that doesn't go, that debt also gets into hyperbaric treatment, a hyperbaric chamber, but doesn't get treatment, that's very, very difficult to do. And that goes along with the problem with the problem, I'll say, in quotes with pressure, the idea of hyperbaric environment, you're increasing the amount of oxygen in circulation, but you're doing that by increasing the amount of atmospheric pressure that the body is in the lungs specifically, are feeling. So we simulate the pressure you feel under a certain amount of seawater. And that water is heavy, and that heaviness drives more oxygen in circulation. So oftentimes, what they'll do in a hyperbaric study is that they'll compare two levels of hyperbaric pressure, one a mild level that they call the sham treatment, and one a more significant level that they call the treatment. The problem though, is in the sham treatments, oftentimes, they're getting a little bit of pressure. And as a result of that they are they are changing physiology, we know that mild amounts of pressure will increase the amount of oxygen in circulation, even if you're not giving oxygen in a face mask or some other way. So the challenge is that the studies are hard to do. And also they're expensive to do. And in addition, there's no patented drug at the end of the rainbow, because oxygen is not something you can patent. Okay. So I think that's the first major controversy and that very easy for me to discuss with people that have any interest in discussing this. We can talk about placebo controlled trials, we can talk about Shams, all this stuff, we just kind of I just glanced over pretty quickly over there. The second thing, I think, is that there are different types of chambers. And this is what you're alluding to Spencer is that? Well, you have you have mild units units that go to a very mild amount of hyperbaric pressure, and oxygen and you have medical grade units that can go very, very deep. And the challenge within that spectrum is that some things will respond very, very well at mild pressures, but other things won't. And some things will respond very well at Deep pressures, but they won't respond very well at mild pressures. So it can go both ways so the mild units don't have as much study Dunn has many studies to talk about how they're how they can be beneficial. They don't have as many, you know, they don't have as there's just not as many safety studies, there's a lot of things that are sort of limited on the on the mild side. But we do know, looking at all the data in the literature at the mild units that typically go between 1.3 and 1.5 atmospheres, which is about 12 to 15 feet of sea water equivalent. And pressure can do a really good job in optimizing neurocognitive physiology, and probably good also for day to day operations like jetlag and exercise recovery, and an overall sort of milder types of things. Whereas this is where's the deeper chambers have more of the research behind them, the to atmosphere pressure, which is the equivalent of 33 feet of sea water, is the most studied pressure. And as a result of this, this is where most of the literature, and most of the work that I do is kind of based on this pressure, especially when it comes to systemic or outside the central nervous system indications.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:02

Yes, yeah, there. So it, the measurement is atmospheres, right, the portable ones are like one atmosphere, and then the ones that you probably work with it, you too, or are there it's the

Dr. Scott Sherr: 11:14

one atmosphere, atmosphere, or your one atmosphere is the equivalent of zero feet of seawater. So what happens atmosphere is sea level. And then you have 1.3 to 1.5, which are the mild units. And that's typically the one that's about 12 to 15 feet of seawater. And then you have the medical grade units that can go from anywhere between 1.32 to 3.0, typically, and then those are the call that usually those are called mono place chambers. Those are single occupancy chambers, and you have what are called multiplex chambers, those can go up to six, or seven or eight, ata A times 33, if you want to do the math, and the reason why they have those chambers is what Terry was asking Dr. Terry was mentioned before, which was related to diving, because if you have a diving injury, you have to be pressurized to the level of which the diving injury happened. And so if you're if you had a diving injury, 125 feet of sea water, you need to go into a chamber that can go to 125. This is what this is how hyperbaric therapy was developed way back when but I think you made a really good point. And I think it's important just to kind of emphasize that pressure is the key to hyperbaric therapy, you can't just put a face mask on your on your, on your face and think you're gonna get more oxygen circulation, you have red blood cells that typically carry oxygen, there's only a certain amount of red blood cells you have in your body. Most of us are doing very well, right now, saturating those red blood cells. So if anybody's got a pulse ox on their finger, imagine it really will often be somewhere between 96 and 100% measured. That means that 96 to 100% of the sights on your red blood cells, after they leave the lungs are saturated with with oxygen, okay, and that's 21% oxygen in the air that you're breathing at sea level. Me here in Colorado, it's 16% oxygen, and but I would I do here. And another way that you can kind of compensate for having less oxygen around is by increasing the number of red blood cells you have in circulation. So you can do this legally, you can come to Colorado, you can come training here, as all the endurance guys do. Or you can do this illegally. But a blood pack by doping taking a drug called estrogen, which increases the number of red blood cells like the one one ball wonder document, Lance Armstrong, right. I know, I know, you guys may know, Lance, I think Brian does. And and then you. So that's what these guys do. They take EBO. So they increase their red blood cell number. Or you can actually give yourself a red blood cell transfusion right before a race. And you've I'm sure you've heard of this as well, this is going to increase your oxygen carrying capacity because you're increasing number of red blood cells you have in circulation. The other way to do this, though, is by going into a hyperbaric environment, which is going to saturate the liquid of your bloodstream or the plasma itself. The way that happens is that when the when you get pressure on a vessel and on your lungs, that pressure is going to change your physiology and drive oxygen directly into the plasma or the liquid of your bloodstream. So you can get up to 12 100% more oxygen in circulation, but it wouldn't show up on your pulse ox. This is something that Brian and I talk about a lot when you're talking about hypoxic training. And you're talking about how to measure the difference inside of a hyperbaric environment versus hypoxia and things like that. It's very difficult to do that. Because you can only measure the red blood cell saturation of oxygen easily. You can't measure the plasma oxygen saturation unless you do like an ABG or on somebody, which is not an easy thing to do. So pressure is key. It doesn't hyperbaric therapy doesn't work without pressure and any type of pressure, any amount of pressure starts changing your physiology, increasing the amount of oxygen that's going to go in circulation, increase the amount of energy that you're going to make, because why do we care about oxygen anyway, the more oxygen that we have, the more energy that you're going to make and the more products of energy metabolism that you're going to make that help with signaling and these are called reactive oxygen species.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:04

You, obviously have been doing this for a long time, because you're answering a lot of the questions that I keep wanting to come up with, or wanting to ask you, the one, why can't you just wear oxygen mask, you know, but obviously, it's about the pressure. So that was fantastic. Thanks for answering that. Now, as you may know, I mean, I'm here in South Florida, the keys was one of the locations the Florida Keys that had one of the first hyperbaric chambers, you know, it was a big steel, you know, very rugged looking chamber with a little porthole. And that was for when you refer to diving injuries you were referring to? Is it still called the bends

Dr. Scott Sherr: 15:46

as the people you know, in compression? So it depends, yeah. Decompression illness, right.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:52

So I remember one growing up hearing about this, this chamber, so it's been around for a long time. Now, let me ask you, concussions are, you know, I worked in the NFL for many years. And I'm seeing a lot of the guys that I used to treat now for, you know, obviously the suspect of old concussion, the plaquing in the tau proteins and everything. There was an article written not too long ago about Joe Nemeth, a famous quarterback that is obviously in his like, 70s now, and up in Jacksonville, Florida, they were doing hyperbaric chamber on a very, very frequent basis. And they were finding that there was regenerative changes to the, to the, you know, the nervous system in the brain. Can you elaborate on some of the, you know, traumatic brain injury and Whiplash is that, you know, we're hyperbaric helps.

Dr. Scott Sherr: 16:50

Sure. Yeah. So yeah, Joe has been pretty outspoken about his, his trajectory, where he was doing very poorly for quite some time, mentally, cognitively. And then how hyperbaric therapy really was the answer for him, and how he was able to regenerate his brain. And what was nice about Joe's process, and this is something that's happening more in the hyperbaric literature is that it's not just how you feel, it's about also looking at objective types of technology and imaging, to kind of see that progression and say, hey, look, I don't just feel better look at my brain and look how it's working better. Now two, and this is what are called functional types of images. These are imaging studies that are done. So it's functional MRI, is something called DTI, which is another type of MRI that looks at the blood flow, the metabolism of the nerves and the brain, and blood and overall, the vascular density, and how these things change over the time. And so what Joe did in the workup up in northern Florida, as you were mentioning, was do a whole battery of hyperbaric therapy, and then watch the brain changes over these periods of time periodically and seeing how his brain was changing. And then doing other types of subjective measures, cognitive scoring, etc. And this has been repeated. In more study designs, the Israelis probably have the largest hyperbaric program in the world. And over in Tel Aviv, Israel, and now they're over in retirement community in Florida, the villages as you guys probably know, phones, calling themselves the IVF clinics. And they have a place also, I think, in Dubai as well now, where they do a whole battery of testing for people beforehand, and they do hyperbaric therapy, and then they do battery testing afterwards. It looked at multiple different types of metrics and things like that. But the key here really is that you have the ability in a hyperbaric chamber to regenerate tissue you have regenerating the body of the brain. And you can see this in real time, you can look at new blood vessels forming in the brain, you can see new new pathways where nerves are firing. When you're looking at EGS and QE G's on neurofeedback, you can see this stuff and over the many years that I've been doing this, it's quite evident in somebody that's gotten hyperbaric therapy, and then somebody that hasn't, and I've had I've worked with neurofeedback providers, for example, that do a lot of q e G's in their practice, and they can tell somebody that's been getting hyperbaric therapy in somebody that hasn't been getting the same treatment on the neurofeedback side, but seeing massive differences on because of doing hyperbaric therapy. It all comes down to that same physiologic shift as I was describing before, when we're getting new blood vessels in tissue when we're decreasing inflammation. When you're getting stem cells release when you're optimizing to tissue healing, you're going to see all these things occur not only in the the subjective side, but also on the objective side as well.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 19:43

Interesting in retrospect, just for our listeners, you mentioned a really cool diagnostic tool that not many people even doctors know about diffuse tensor imaging which you said reference to DTI. Dr. Terry if you have not seen DTI, it is the it's fascinating because it actually shows were broken axons that I mean and it so illuminate it's colorized if you want and showing repair to those is it's it's, it's a really it's a type of MRI that has like a different program to it. It's really, really, really neat.

Dr. Scott Sherr: 20:24

Yeah, yeah. So functional MRI is probably the better of the two technologies because it doesn't require contrast yet, but DTI is great. And when I was in Israel back in 2018, they took me through their whole program, and I got, I got a functional MRI, and I did all their cognitive testing, and things like that. So it's super cool. And I think, you know, we know the burden of traumatic traumatic brain disease, traumatic brain injury, we know the burden of concussion, we know how terrible these long term side effects can be, obviously, for these NFL athletes, but even for regular people that are playing sports as kids and hitting the ball and and in collegiate sports and things like that, it's not only does it seem to be probably significantly helpful for people that have these injuries, but not even if they have if they don't even have overdue injuries. It's just like the the the sort of like sub concussive kinds of things are likely is this insignificant benefit there. There's even some data, although it's an animal's that even pre treating with hyperbaric therapy may be very beneficial, and people that are at high risk for getting concussion as well.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 21:24

Oh, fantastic. Let me ask you about methylene blue laws that you advocate, can you share? I think that's No, no tropics are becoming very popular these days. Can you share some of your findings?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 21:41

Yeah, sure. I mean, I think the context for people is that my clinical practice is a it's a spectrum of things that I do. The first thing that I do with most people, is I focus on foundational biology and the sense of how well can you make energy, looking at vitamins, minerals, nutrients, and cofactors, gut health hormones and things like that. So that's the foundation of what I do. Typically, what I found over the years, guys, is that if you have an acute issue, hyperbaric therapy is very, very helpful at revving up the process, accelerating the process of healing, it's going to increase the ability to just heal tissue faster. Okay. However, if you have a long standing injury, if you have a chronic issue, oftentimes, getting into a hyperbaric chamber right away is not the right thing to do. Because the body is already under significant stress. It's been under stress for a period of time, there can be vitamin, mineral and other kinds of deficiencies may or may not be able to make energy well. And if you go into a hyperbaric chamber, and you're making energy poorly, you are going to have a challenge making energy when you get more oxygen in circulation. Okay. So as a result of that, what I've developed over the years is a clinical practice that really looks at basic foundational types of technology, the foundational types of testing to really be able to assess people from the ground up before they go into a hyperbaric chamber. Okay, so this is something I call it's called Health optimization medicine in practice. It's something that I've been doing for a while. It's a it's also a nonprofit organization that's training doctors and practitioners like me, okay. So oftentimes, people come to me and they'll say, to me, it just got I want to get to hyperbaric chamber, because I have, you know, post concussive syndrome, let's say, right, and I've had, I've had symptoms for six months, I was like, I think Hockenberry therapy can be helpful for you, but I don't think it's the first step in your journey. The first step in your journey is to truly look at these foundational principles first, and then once these things are addressed, or at least starting to address, then we can think about getting getting you into a hyperbaric environment, because I've gotten burned over the years trying to get people in too quickly, but they can't make energy effectively. And if you can't make energy effectively give you a whole bunch more oxygen, there's a good chance you're not going to feel very good. Okay. And so, what I've developed over the years is what I would call an integrative approach. The integrative approach starts with a foundational piece here. And then I add on to that integrative approach, tools, technologies and practices, supplements included that will help along the process. Some of them are dialed in specifically with data as we have, as I've been describing, so I know if you can't make energy well, and if you're not detoxify, if you don't have the ability to detox very well, like if you're making energy, of course, you also have to be able to balance out the products of energy metabolism, which include reactive oxygen species, for example, this is like are you antioxidant deficient, basically. So if I do that all sort of data driven, but then I also add in various types of supplements and tools and technologies and practices. I send them to Brian, for example, and we do parasympathetic training, and looking at how breathwork can significantly optimize your hyperbaric experience but also your stress response obviously. I guess the the short stories I'm a smokescreen. I talked about hyperbaric therapy, to my ears bleed but I but when I but on podcast, but for the most part when I talk to patients 85% When I talk to talk about asthma Nothing to do with hyperbaric everything else is almost more important because and because the hyperbaric therapy is the easy part, you just go into a chamber and relax, right. But it's all the other stuff. And, and methylene blue is one of those things that I talk about a lot, because it's, it's a compound that's been around a long, long time, we know it's very, very safe. We know it has a significant profile where it not only does it help with increasing energy production, but it also has the ability to balance out reactive oxygen species or oxidative stress. So it has the ability to help. So when you like I said, when you make energy, you make products of energy metabolism, these include reactive oxygen, species, carbon dioxide and water, okay, the body has to be able to balance that out, or be able to shift as a result of those and maintain energy production or maintain antioxidant reserve and things like that. So what methylene blue is able to do is it helps with energy production. And it also helps with antioxidant reserve. In addition, it also helps because it has the ability to work with mitochondria that aren't working that well, in the sense that a lot of us these days have mitochondrial dysfunction. If you have chronic inflammation, if you have a chronic condition, if you have a chronic infection, if you have a like a post infectious type of syndrome, maybe something like lung COVID, for example, you do have mitochondrial dysfunction. And so adding something like methylene blue, to the mix can be extremely effective and help supporting the system while you're doing the the extra work at a more work of optimizing overall. So sorry, long answer to your methylene blue question. But

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:34

no, no, I love it. Now D what baselines do you establish? Are they lab work? Are they physical exam before you do the hyperbaric and determine right blood? Right?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 26:51

It's a great question. I think what I've noticed what I've really kind of emphasize through the years of doing this is that whether it's an acute issue, or a chronic issue, like basic stuff is essential, like in the sense that like getting basic blood work to make sure that you don't you're not anemic, or that you're not iron deficient, that your thyroid is not used working or like basic stuff is really important, no matter if it's an acute issue or a chronic issue. Okay. But when it comes to more chronic issues, that's where I like to get a little bit more in depth if I can with people and look at like foundational biomarkers. This is in a, a field that's called metabolomics. Is the world that I live in metabolomics is the study of the real time workings of your cells. How well as I was describing before, how well you making energy, how well are you utilizing your your macronutrients to break down into the energy cycles? How well are you detoxifying? Do you have evidence of heavy metals or mineral deficiencies or neurotransmitter imbalances is your gut toxic because if you have a leaky gut, you're not absorbing your vitamins, minerals and nutrients. And you're also likely more inflamed and your immune system might be screwed up and your brain can't heal itself and your blood brain barrier is all screwed up. And so like these are things that I've just found over the years, if you can address them earlier in the process, I've gotten disinvited guys from hyperbaric conferences, because my typical stick here is don't put them in the chamber. And don't put them the chamber yet, you know, wait until you have more of a sense of what's going on under the hood. If it's not an acute issue. And so these I look at maybe, I mean, if I have the option for people, my preference is to look at between, you know, two to 500 biomarkers, and then using that information, create a holistic plan for people that includes addressing those biomarkers, but not just that looking at diet lifestyle, looking at anything from sunlight exposure to sleep to, you know, the timing of the food to, you know, to looking at looking at blood sugar regulation. I mean, it's it's a pretty comprehensive program that I take people through. Not everybody can do that. And and I get that and but I think that if you can't do that, at least doing the basics is extremely important. Getting basic blood work done is I've had a couple people over the years that this happened early on in my career is that we do a whole bunch of hyperbaric therapy, they wouldn't get better. And then I'd find out later that they were iron deficient. And then they got iron and they felt better. Right? And something very simple like that. You're just like, well, this is ridiculous. Everybody just needs to get basic stuff done before they go into hyperbaric chamber.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 29:38

Okay, so that, but okay, I was impressed with your conversation about hyperbaric but now I'm extra because I have no nobody that does all the the pre hyperbaric work to to really identify what's going on with their systems. So that's fantastic. As far hours for athletic performance. That, you know, obviously these are people that are in relatively great shape but wanting to create a more peak performance experience. And then I would love to know what your favorite most difficult patient is. So that's two questions. Go ahead.

Dr. Scott Sherr: 30:19

Yeah, I think in the realm of performance, and athletic, the athletic sphere in general, and I work with these amount of people in this world, and most of them are not as well optimized, as you would imagine, most of them are usually running on fumes, because they're overtraining, as you probably know. And so it's really important to do a lot of this kinds of these kinds of things with them is looking at basic physiology, looking at energy production, detoxification pathways, gut health, things like that, because you can make a huge difference in these people. And that's really all they need is one or two or 5%, to see the major differences in their race times and their performance as well. And then you can add on things like methylene blue, which are great to help with aerobic capacity because you get more oxygen utilization for longer because you have methylene blue around. And then you can use things like like hyperbaric oxygen therapy in various types of contexts, you can use it in a sort of pre treatment or pre training idea, because there's some actually some pretty good studies on increasing vo to max with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, so increasing your minute to minute utilization of oxygen. This is probably because of increased vascular density, the density of of blood vessels around your heart specifically. And there's some data that's come out of Israel. Again, they haven't published a lot of this, but there's some on how it improves markers of ventricular function of ejection fraction, even people with normal ejection fractions normal heart function. And we think this is and this is also happening with increasing vo vo to but these are longer protocols. You know, one thing we haven't mentioned, and a good sort of fulcrum for people is that if you have an acute issue in a hyperbaric chamber, you want to get better, you're talking maybe as little as one treatment, maybe five, maybe 10, typically done in a row five days a week with the weekends off sometimes six days a week, as opposed to a chronic issue where it's been going on a long period of time, where you're really trying to shift physiology, and not just enhance the body's ability to heal itself. When you're shifting physiology, what you're doing is actually shifting what's called epigenetics, your, your expression of various genes in your DNA. And that's what hyperbaric therapy is doing really, that takes longer. These protocols are typically at minimum 20 sessions can be as many as 4060, sometimes up to 120 or more in Joe Namath before, has done over 120 hyperbaric sessions, and these are done five days a week, typically, for a period of time, they're not not always all of them in a row 120. Like typically, we do take breaks with people after about 40 or 60 sessions. And there's various other types of ways to do this. But in essence, you're not looking at just a couple hyperbaric sessions, if you have a chronic issue you're talking about, you're talking about multiple sessions in a row for chronic issues. And so when or in the chronic condition world, I would also say long term goals. So if you have an athlete, or you have a human, like you're either want to increase vo two Max, we're not going to see a sustained increase in VO max via to max probably until about treatment 20 to 30 in a hyperbaric chamber, where what I mean by sustained is that when you finish or stop hyperbaric therapy, you're still gonna see a benefit for some period of time afterwards. How long that period of time is depends on the person depends on there foundational stuff as I was talking about before. And if you have a better foundation, you need less of this less hyperbaric therapy to see the long term benefits. And then of course, if you're using other tools and technologies and, and practices and things like that, you're going to see even more of a benefit. But the minimum really is about 20 or so to see a sustained benefit in some of these physiologic markers. So you have an athlete's you can do the VLT Max thing ahead of time. So you have that to while they're training. And you can also use periodic hyperbaric therapy for muscle recovery, for sleep optimization, because, you know, people will sleep better if you've done hyperbaric therapy after a big training session. Because they're going to they're going to shift their physiology, they're going to help recover faster. So I use it for anything from athletes that are flying a lot for jetlag, I use it for muscle recovery. I use it for injury recovery. I use it for cognitive optimization in in athletes as well that are doing a lot of training. One of the things I mean there's so many pieces of all this right but like in a hyperbaric environment, your multitasking capacity goes up so you can do I have I have guys and and ladies that does better watch game tape in their chambers because that's when they're going to be able to actually infuse it into their brains and stick it they're easier and faster, as opposed to like just flipping around on their phone or something like that instead, so

Dr. Spencer Baron: 34:54

and that and that's going to atmospheres and the more industrial strength hyperbaric is not the, you know, the portable, necessarily,

Dr. Scott Sherr: 35:04

the answer is that ideally, yes, they have a to atmosphere chamber that they can use. But I can do a lot for people in the 1.3 to 1.5 range as well, especially for the day to day optimization, recovery, cognitive side of things, when it comes to vo two Max changes. I don't think that's gonna I may happen in a mild unit, but it probably won't, it definitely won't happen to the degree that will happen in a deep chamber. And yeah, people have to be careful, because there's a lot of people that Hawk the soft chambers that will say that the soft chambers are can do the exact same thing as the heart chambers, you just have to do more treatment. But that like in a in a word, that's just bullshit. Because there's no real, there's no evidence of that at all. Yeah, when you're getting into hyperbaric environment, and you're gonna do atmospheres, you're gonna get a certain amount of oxygen tension that you can never match at 1.3 in the chamber. So just think about how far oxygen can diffuse out of a blood vessel at two atmospheres versus 1.3. It's going to be, it's going to be like night and day. So that's not to say you can't get benefits, but it's not the same. You know,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 36:10

going back a little bit you we live in a world of a, like a pharmaceutical world, you know, you you take a pill and the people want instant results. Yeah. So your people listening, I want make sure we go back a little bit that, oh, I might increase my my brain capacity, I'm going to take a metal boot loss injure. And it's not supervised, you know, or I'm going to take this, or I'm gonna hop in the hyperbaric chamber, I have a friend has a steel chamber, I'm gonna hop in that, you know, I live, I can throw a rock at Amgen. And so I live right next to eco land, you know. So people always want to take that quick pill that quick that don't want to put into work. How do you? How do you break people from this pharmaceutical brain mindset? And when you when you want to break down their body and look at it, how do you do that?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 37:03

Well, I think what I do is I try to understand the, the sort of the effectiveness of what they're what I think what I'm trying to kind of elicit here is that there's a spectrum of things that people can do that are going to be very safe, versus potentially harmful, right? And then try to get people to understand the spectrum and kind of where they went, where they're where they're going to start, like certainly I don't want somebody going over to a friend's house and going into their steel chamber, and having no clue what they're doing. These people do have these things in their homes, in their garages. I mean, some people will make them themselves. It's kind of crazy what engineers will do. And so you just don't You don't know what you're getting, you don't know why you're doing it. So I think the real thing to have people understand is like, why are they doing what they're doing? Okay, and then try and take the next step is, is the thing that I'm doing extremely safe? Or are there potential dangers of it. And these in general, like most of us, it's just the human animal, we want quick fixes to things, we don't realize that it took us 45 years to feel this way. And we can't expect to feel better tomorrow. I mean, I don't know if you guys know, my father is a chiropractor as well. And he's, he's been a chiropractor for 40 years on Long Island. And so I grew up in the realm of understanding that the body can heal itself, but it's not like it's gonna be like magic, and it's gonna be tomorrow. It takes time it takes, it takes effort, and it takes supervision, and it takes people helping you along the way. The problem with what we have now is that there's so much information, everybody thinks that they're their own expert, they just have to go to Dr. Google. And they have they know exactly what's wrong with right. And so and so I mean, not to say that it's, it's, it's wrong to research and kind of figure things out. But most of us really do benefit from having some sort of coach or quarterback that at least has has an expertise in some of the stuff that you're interested in. And then hopefully, knowing what they don't know. And they can refer you out to other people. I mean, with methylene, blue, for example, it's a very safe compound, it can be used almost across the board. At low doses, we're talking about low dose about eight to 16 milligrams on a regular basis is not gonna hurt most people, it can be very beneficial. And I think the downsides are pretty low. Overall, I think that having your own race, doing your own research is really important. Making sure obviously, if you have medical conditions that there's no contraindications and things like that. But something like hyperbaric therapy is sort of the other end of not on the other end of the spectrum, but it's sort of in the middle where it's like, if you go in there you don't know what you're doing. You can hurt yourself at the wet the worst, but at the minute at sort of the most common is that people don't feel any better. Like oh, I went in, I didn't feel good, didn't feel anything and then I didn't do it again. Right. Well, why did you go in how many times you go in what pressure did you go in? Did anybody supervise you like all these kinds of things like and oftentimes when I asked asked all those questions, like, oh, I don't I don't have any answers to any of those questions. So, um, so changing human you I'm in psychology. I don't have an answer for you. Maybe I do psychedelics across the board. Like Timothy Leary, back in the 60s, LSD into the water supply in New York City, right? Experiment. So other than sort of changing consciousness like that, you know, we're we have to meet people where they are, but tried to give them a roadmap and kind of an understanding of like the triaging of, of their life and like, what and trying to be more methodical about what they do. You know,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:31

Dr. Scott, funny that you should, yeah, no, isn't it ironic that you should bring that out, we had a guest that talked about, it was all about, you know, post traumatic stress, you know, in military and first responders, and, you know, he's using psychedelics as a as a as a solution under medical supervision. What are your What are your, you mentioned it so now let's go down.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 41:00

Actually, before you bring that up, you know, I read the book, how to change your mind, you know, by calling great book, as well as the obstacles in the way and he talks about Leary. So you, thank you for bringing that up. And you have like a little company called synergistic technologies. And it goes into some of that, can you so I'd like to know, because Wall Street Journal just came out with an article yesterday about how Silicon Valley is now running on, on psychedelics. And that was, and that literally was the title of the article. And it talks about me, Elon Musk using and all that. Now, my issue, right. And my issue is people again, but meth blue laws and jurors or psychedelics, they're gonna go, Oh, if Elon Musk or this guy is doing that, I'm just gonna order some and find some and just take it in my in my living room. And there's a big difference between taking somebody's living room and versus taking it and having somebody walk you through these, these protocols, because you can alter your reality. Now, you don't know really know what your reality is. So what's your thought processes on some of that?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 42:04

I mean, it's a big topic. I mean, it's just again, the nature of the human base. Like I remember being involved in getting and doing some studies or doing some work with patients back in, like 2014 and 15, on the ketogenic diet, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and cancer, nobody could figure out how to do the ketogenic diet, it was only one organization that was doing it called the Charlie foundation that's still around now that was working with children. And then you know, eight years later, I was going to conferences with keto cookies, and ice cream, and, and everything commoditize that you can imagine, for keto, and that's what it is now a Keto pizza or whatever. Like, that's just what we do as a commercialized company. And this is what happens with psychedelics, this is what happens with everything. I think, I think the key really is to go back to the basis to the basics of why these things work, and what you're looking to achieve as a result of them. You know, the challenge with Silicon Valley and things, they're just looking for the ways to make more money, right, and to be more conscious, but this is really just a spiritual ego, that takes the place of their ego to try to get money. So it's like, it's not surprising. It's not, it's not something you can do anything about. It's just the way the cycles work, right. And so I think the key for, for me and for my companies, and so my companies that are making hyperbaric technologies, my company called one base, for example, when base health and then my company that makes methylene, blue products called prescriptions is that what can we do here is that we can educate people, we can give them really great resources, we can give them really great technology, and then come out and talk about them and try to be something that I've tried to do for many years in the hyperbaric world is like, be a voice of, I hope, reason and of balance and saying, not everybody should go into a chamber right now. Right? It's not the right time for you. I've often I've always said it's not, if hyperbaric therapy will be helpful. It's when I think everybody can benefit at some point, but maybe not right now. And maybe not for a long time, depending on what's going on. The same thing is the case with methylene blue. Although I think there's more of a universal possibility for people to use it at low dose if people are using it in a intentional way. Same thing goes with psychedelics and with whether he low dose or high dose, I think there's a I think there is a significant education component. And I have a lot of friends in the space that are trying to do this. The good news is that most of them, especially at low dose are going to be okay. But certainly at high dose, you can get into trouble. And people can have bad trips. And this is not, you know, I have my own. I have a podcast with my team called the smarter, not harder podcast. And we I interviewed with one of my good friends. His name is Dr. Dave Rubin, who has a company called Apollo and we talked significantly about what happens when psychedelics go wrong and nobody talks about it's like what do you do are open and things like that. And he's really a great resource for all this and, and so again, I don't have any like magical answers for you guys, other than to say that you're there you have to find the signal in the noise and find educate ditional resources that you trust, find products that you trust that are tested, that are vetted by people that you trust, that are not just trying to sell you something all the time. You know, that's I think that's really what it comes down to. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:13

Pardon my naivety methylene blue lozenges, what is it? What is it actually? And what does it do physiologically?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 45:22

So we make something called a trophy, which looks like a loss and it's a small dissolvable dissolvable lozenge that goes between your upper cheek and gum that dissolves there for about 15 to 30 minutes, it also can be swallowed as well. Methylene blue is fantastically bioavailable, which means it gets into the system very easily and readily. It's been around over over 100 years, it was the first drug that was registered with the FDA back in the 1890s, actually, as an anti microbial and then over the last several decades, it's been studied in various types of models of mitochondrial dysfunction, or cognitive dysfunction, ischemia, other things because it helps with energy production in the mitochondria itself. It has multiple different roles, it has roles as increasing as increasing various neurotransmitters including norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin, as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. So it's a mild anti depressive, it's been used as an antidepressant in the past, it's been studied in bipolar disease with some success. It's being studied in models of Alzheimer's disease and, and cognitive impairment. But it's a drug that's been around a long time, so it's off patent. So you can't do a pharmaceutical drug with it. So the pharmaceutical companies have always looked at derivatives of methylene, blue, for various types of conditions. And they're doing that now in various trials. Our company is a direct to consumer company. We also sell to practitioners, specifically, as well, we have a professional line coming out specifically for practitioners, I do all the education, all the outreach for our practitioners, my father, he sells all our products at his office on Long Island as well, and have done a lot of use a lot of methylene blue for the things we've been describing, as well as post infectious conditions, post COVID kinds of things as well are similar kinds of processes with a lot of success overall. So it's kind of a, it's my, it's my utility player, honestly, I use it for almost everything, but in the context of understanding what's going on.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:20

So your dad is a chiropractor, you said earlier, and he is in Long Island, New York. Well, you're really far. You went to the other side of the map there? No, that's great to know, because it I'm very interested in hearing or Well, learning more about the methylene blue lozenges. So Well, that'll be another subject. But for now, we're getting going near the end, and we do this fun little part called rapid fire questions. Cool. I'm gonna throw out a bunch of questions for questions that you could wait, well, I always say, you know, give a quick answer. But it always ends up becoming something elaborate, because it gets interesting. But if you're ready, I'm ready to throw out Question number one, let's do it. Yeah. Best Book, everyone you feel should read

Dr. Scott Sherr: 48:12

this book. That's so hard. It's like there's different context of that, right. I think if you are a scientist, or really interested in physiology, there's a book that I just finished, it's probably one of the best books that I've ever read. It was called on it's called oxygen by Nick lane. Nicolaitans wrote a bunch, he's written a bunch of books that are very, very interesting. He just came out with another one, I can't remember the name of it, but I want to read it soon. But basically, it's the story of oxygen and how it developed on the planet from, from an evolutionary perspective, and then it goes through the whole realm of how oxygen works, and how our physiology is sort of it's obviously it's obviously dependent on oxygen, and all the positives and negatives or downsides of that, and how that manifests in disease and longevity, and etc. So it's a really cool book, it was written in the early 2000s. I keep going back and reading parts of it, because it's just so obvious. I like looking at things from an evolutionary lens, in the sense of, why are things the way they are physiologically, like the most common thing. As a chiropractor, you guys know, this, and my father growing up, like, Why do you have a fever, right? A fever is not there to give you Tylenol and ibuprofen if you've lived fevers there to kill the bugs that are floating around. Right. So that's the most common evolutionarily kids conserved way that we deal with infection, right? So in there's various ways that we do this as a result of using oxygen to make energy. So I would highly recommend that to somebody that's a scientist that loves reading physiology, and that wants to learn an evolutionary perspective.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:49

Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, really good. Thank you. Number two, best. Excuse me. Well, let you have a lot of theories they come up over time and think think of one that you felt was one of the craziest things that you went and you wanted to test to see if that theory was right. Hmm.

Dr. Scott Sherr: 50:15

It's a good question. I think I've been really interested in the work that I've been doing with Bryan, actually recently, because I will be honest, and I didn't really think of carbon dioxide is something I needed to pay attention to. I was I've been always I've been an oxygen guy, right? Because that's what I Yeah. But when I started talking to Brian and realizing how important carbon dioxide is, to what I do, it's been it's been it's starting to become a lot more transformative in the work that I do with patients. And the work I do in the hyperbaric environment. You know, the one of the biggest things is hyperventilation, you know, hyperventilation is going to shift something called the your oxygen dissociation curve. So you're not going to dump oxygen into tissue. So why wasn't I having people do breathing exercises in the chamber to slow down their breathing, so they were not hyperventilating, so that the oxygen that was giving them was actually going to work and do something other than just stay on your red blood cells and not dump off. So I've been really intrigued and excited to work with him. And also some of my other colleagues in the worlds of, of co2 and the worlds of hypoxia, alongside hyperbaric oxygen therapy, I think there's a lot that's going on. Now, this is really sort of detailed and nuanced kind of work. But I think in the next several years, you're gonna see a lot more of this from me a lot more of this from Brian, and others in this space.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:47

Oh, my gosh, I, I would love to just talk about that part. That is fantastically interesting. Okay, question number three, though, to combat jetlag, and maybe sharpen your mind after that. Do you have a best tip for those travelers that are traveling such distances that would have jetlag?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 52:07

Yeah, the easiest one is actually methylene blue methylene. Blue is a fantastic jetlag hack. If you go to transcriptions.com, our website and just type in jetlag, we have a full protocol that we've developed, that works swimmingly well, no matter the times, it doesn't matter how many time zones I was just, I've been working with this for the last couple years. And we finally published it. The reason why methylene blue works, because when you're traveling, you're getting more radiation exposure, because you're obviously closer, you're off the off the surface of the planet, and so you get more radiation exposure from the sun. So it's a radiation protector. It also helps when you have lower IQ, because you have lower oxygen on an airplane, you're typically pressurized to about 1000 feet above sea level. So you have about 14 or 15% oxygen in the air. So you have methylene blue that helps protect you there from the stress of that and also protects you because it helps you make more energy. It's also an antiviral and anti microbials. So it helps with travel and preventing those kinds of things along the way. And it also obviously helps with energy so you get off the plane, you don't feel like you just were hit by a bus, no matter how many time zones you went through. So that's my easy, easy jetlag hack. You can just swallow the turkeys are the lozenges in a very prescribed way. And it works. So I'd highly recommend people look at that. And check it out. I across the board, the response has been fantastic and overwhelming. The other the other hack that I use is obviously hyperbaric therapy, I mean, because if you are under, again, the same conditions, you're under low oxygen radiation exposure, oxidative stress, and you go into a hyperbaric chamber afterwards, you're going to reverse a lot of that very quickly. So I have jetlag protocols that I've developed like pre treatment, so pre hot pre flight, and then post flight it's a really great way to kind of just get yourself oxygenated when you get off an airplane and feel much better much faster as well but that's not obviously available to everybody. Getting getting must definitely be lozenges or the turkeys is pretty easy for most people. That's that's the easier of the two I have a lot of other things that I do for jet lag but I think that like those are my two those are my to go twos because those are my wheelhouse is of course, you know, don't eat the shit on the plane. Don't drink alcohol, keep hydrated. You know, don't try to get yourself on the timezone that you're going to be on as soon as you get on the plane. Those kinds of things, too.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:29

It's definitely blue good for all ages. Yeah, it's been

Dr. Scott Sherr: 54:32

studied in everybody. It's not good for pregnant women or breastfeeding women, but otherwise, yeah. Okay.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:39

And this is not one of my questions, but how about hangovers?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 54:43

So I haven't used it enough in hangovers to know yet we're, we're looking at it. I tend to

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:51

be happy to test himself. Terry, after his axe and whiskey night he can help you out I

Dr. Scott Sherr: 55:02

you know, it's something we've looked at there's another, there's another product that we have on our, on our on our shelf or electronic shelf on on our store on the website called Blue carnitine. And that one's a combination of methylene blue with nicotine, caffeine and CBD. So this is, this is our nootropic full on nootropic. This does help with with with hangovers. And it does help with jetlag, too, if you're feeling a little rough as well. It's like, it's like taking Adderall without the jitters. Or like, more like a Modafinil kind of feel if you've had that before.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:38

Yeah. Oh, I love it. I love it. All right, my last question for you. What music do you listen to, to get yourself in the zone or in a flow state?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 55:53

This has changed so much over the years. As you can imagine, I am a guitarist. I've played guitar since I was 12. I was in bands when I was in high school in college and medical school and, and I had a lot of fun doing all that. And so the the music that I listened to that deck, during that time was very different than the music that I listen to now. My pump up music before a test in medical school was Led Zeppelin probably the music that I used to study to back in those days was a lot of just a lot of instrumental. My favorite of all time probably was Bela Fleck and the flagstones actually, it's a, he's a, he's a banjo player, been around for many, many years. Now I have this great app that I use, it's called what's called Brain FM actually brain.fl. And it's got and you listen to it with headphones. And it's basically it's it's music that is sort of optimized to help you focus and they have various different types of things. There's their study and reading, there's, there's deep work, there's light work and things like that. So I tend to like that, because it's, it's its background, but it's not too too, too busy.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:03

Similar to like binary rhythms or binary beats are so vague to rhythms and stuff like that,

Dr. Scott Sherr: 57:09

yeah, there's, there's all these different things that people use, like binaural beats, or something that I use, sometimes, these guys don't have binaural beats, but it's, but there's, sometimes I'll use something like that too. Or I'll go and just do some meditative kinds of work, and then, and then just be silent and do work to sometimes do.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:27

That's awesome. I want to go back a little bit to the psychedelics, I know, you're a hyperbaric chamber guy, but you know, taking out the money thing, taking all that, you know, psychedelics, I think are, were ruined in the early days from maybe political or whatever. And then now they're carrying this comeback. And I think they're extremely important to helping people, some brain traumas, especially our first responders, and and all that. But I think there's, but like with anything, as long as it's managed correctly, what's, what's some of your thoughts on how the magic versus just having a trip party? You know, how do you? Where do you find the, the isn't John Hopkins where you find the best protocols? And where's your go to place to learn some of that?

Dr. Scott Sherr: 58:19

Yeah, I think it's important for people to realize that there are many people that I've worked with over the years, that should have gotten better in a hyperbaric chamber, everything said to me that this person should get better, but they didn't. And the reason almost always is psychological, in the sense that they have trauma, whether a post Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or they have thought loops that had been created as a result of being sick for a while the sick loops, the trauma loops, all these things, if you don't address those things, no matter how much hyperbaric therapy I give them, they will not get better. And so I learned this many years ago, and it's always something that's on my mind. And you can almost always tell when this person walks in the door, because they've tried everything and nothing gets them better. Right? They've, they're on their last legs, and no matter what therapies they try, they work maybe for a short period time or not at all, and they don't and then they just stop working. And the I mean, oftentimes what will happen is that and this is not, it's said the incorrect way, I think is that is that yes, in some ways, it's all in your head. But in other ways, it's not like you don't have any control of it. You can do something about this, right. But our conventional ways of doing this, seeing a psychiatrist taking an SSRI drug, are not going to work for the majority of these people. In my experience. This is where psychedelics come in. And I think they can be extremely effective in doing it, but it has to be done in an intentional way. There's great resources out there for people, John Hopkins, as you said, is a great resource. They have their own psychedelic study center there. Berkeley has one as well. There's a center for Psychedelic Studies that's in San Francisco. There's maps, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, and that's where I send most people hole is, is the maps organization? Yes, you can find underground therapists doing MDMA and other kinds of therapies that are not above board yet. Thankfully, a lot of the stuff will become above board soon. I have a lot of people and a lot of friends in this space that are working very hard to do that. Yeah, you're right, though you don't want to just do these things without the proper supervision, with the proper care with the proper integration. And, again, that's probably the key is actually the integration piece, which is having people and having ways to integrate your experiences, once you have these extreme shifts in your consciousness and how do you put things back together in a more optimal way so that you can really optimize your your neuroplasticity, right? That's the idea is to change your brain and and break those thought patterns. I mean, Paul Stamets always talks about his experience of being a stutter, when he was a kid, and then taking 25 grams of mushrooms accidentally, and his stuttering in a lightning storm went away and never came back. Right, right. So you can change your patterns, you can change your neurophysiology. But it's not easy. And I don't recommend doing what Paul did, nor does anybody recommend anybody do it. But it's possible, but having a process and the intention, and a path with integration is really important.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:14

I mean, that's kind of why I brought it up, you've been in color out, me being in California, I have now patients that have are growing their own, silent, you know, they're growing their own mushrooms, and I'm like, oh, boy, you know, because now they're going to another slice and up, and they're taking it and, and they're reading something, and they're reading a book, and they may be get halfway through, and they're like, Oh, I gotta take this. And, and I'm start seeing some of the problems. But I've seen some incredible successes. I've seen some incredible successes with people with Asperger's. That's been really helping them out. And, and yeah, and, and I have a patient now taking that and the problem is, is illegal. So they're trying to, it's having a hard time finding these drugs and people that will do it. And yet this access was done right? are phenomenal. And so do you see that process changing where it's gonna go from, they're gonna get on the schedule one, and they're gonna make it better.

Dr. Scott Sherr: 1:02:11

You know, it's already happening. And you have states like Oregon states like Colorado that are creating whole regulatory frameworks for psilocybin, for example. So that it's all going to happen, it's just a matter of time. You're right, that people have to be careful where they get their, with their supplies from, especially if they're pills like MDMA, or something like that. Those kind of doctors, you have to be super careful.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:02:31

Yeah, that's so you are seeing the change? And how long do you think I mean, that's a that's a tough question to get rid of the stigma of oh, it's LSD, or oh, it's, it's,

Dr. Scott Sherr: 1:02:43

I mean, that's changed so much in the last decade already. I don't, I don't see that path stopping. I mean, certainly, there's gonna be people who do stupid shit. And just, it's the it's the nature of the human condition, as we've been describing, you can kill yourself on LSD, if you run into traffic, and you think you can stop it, right. So these are definitely ways that things are going to go bad when more people are using these things. It's just, it's just the nature of them, unfortunately. But I hope, you know, I think all of our hope in this world is that I'm almost positive this is gonna be the case the benefits are going to outweigh the risks and and I think you're gonna see more and more regulatory framework less and less criminalization, some more decriminalization across more states, I think it's just, I think the wave is now upon us, and there's going to be some, there's going to be some people that don't do well across this, and there's going to be some collateral damage, but that's, you know, but I think overall, that it's gonna be minimal compared to the positives. Oh, Dr. Scott,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:43

I gotta tell you, man, this was I absolutely loved this, this conversation there. I kept feeling the the, the impulse to ask branches have other questions. And I really, really appreciate

Dr. Scott Sherr: 1:03:57

I'm sorry, just there because I could have just done that, too. If you wanted to. We can do that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:03

No, no, this is great. There was there's a lot of branches to Hell,

Dr. Scott Sherr: 1:04:07

yeah. And we're gonna blame you, especially as you brought up methylene blue and then we kind of went

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:13

everywhere. Yeah, I love it. Actually, when I would order someone I get off, Dad, get.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:04:21

Yo, but I kind of like this or even to try to try and get into a subject in an hour is tough, you know, because you can go three hours on these subjects and five hours and six hours. I think I kind of wanted to just touch a little bit of everything to hopefully entice people to dig more and to learn more and I think if people get these foundations and a spark something in their brain, then they will dig more and, and and turn to you for you know, hopefully you get a couple of emails or a couple of thought process and Brian gets some I mean, if we can expose good thought processes and intrigue people to dig more and and Have conversations with people and take their health seriously. So

Dr. Scott Sherr: 1:05:04

yeah, I think just to that end, I would say that my practice is all you know, pretty much virtual, I consult with people all over the world that are interested in hyperbaric therapy. During those conversations, 85% of what I talk about is not hyperbaric therapy, as as already discussed. That's my surprise for people. But I mean, I think that's the idea. So I work with clinics, I work with individuals, I work with clinicians that are looking to get trained in hyperbaric therapy. My specialty is the integration of hyperbaric therapy with other tools, technologies and practices. And so it's not just about getting to the chamber. And oftentimes, it's not about getting into the chamber right away, as we've been discussing. Then I also have my company transcriptions the word prescription, but with the TR o in front of it transcriptions, that's the company that makes the the buccal truckies. The lozenges that you've been describing, one for methylene blue, their stack, which are, which is for more focus, or at all Adderall equivalent, which is called Blue carnitine. And we have a nonprofit organization attached to that company, as training doctors called Health optimization medicine in practice. So for chiropractors out there, they're looking for a framework, I think it's a fantastic one that is pretty. It's pretty different from what's out there. It's not focused on disease, it's focused on health. It's more in the line of how I grew up the son of a chiropractor and optimizing for health rather than disease, etc. So you can check that out at home health.org, and prescriptions COMM And my personal website is either my name Dr. Scott show.com, or integrative hbot.com. We'll also get you there too.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:06:29

You know, on that note, thank you so much. And I'll put all that stuff in your description so they can have links to everything. Yeah. So Oh, Scott, thank you so much for your time. I know you're a busy man. But I appreciate your time talking to us. And we appreciate all your knowledge and all the ways you're doing to help people. So thank you very much. Guys, it's been fun. Thanks, Dr. Scott.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:06:52

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.