The Hidden Battles of Diet & Wellness: Dr. Paul Varnas on Inflammation, Gut Health, and the Post-Covid Syndrome

Nutrition: A maze we all navigate, yet often find ourselves lost.

This episode of Crackin' Backs is one you don't want to skip, as we're joined by Dr. Paul Varnas, a seasoned expert who's delved deep into the intricacies of what fuels us. Discover the world of food sensitivities and the pivotal roles tests like IgG and IgE play. Decode the enigma of vitamin supplements, and determine if that daily coffee cup is one too many.

Ever wondered about the American 'quick cure' mindset and our tendency to prioritize machines over bodies? Or why inflammation, often linked to the Western diet, is the silent demon behind numerous health woes? Dr. Paul unravels these and more, also taking us on a dietary voyage to learn about gut health.

But this episode isn't just about what we consume; it's about learning from the past. Hear the captivating tale of Ignaz Semmelweis, a figure every health-conscious individual should know.

And, as the world grapples with the aftermath of a pandemic, join the conversation on post-covid syndrome and the solutions Dr. Paul suggests. 

Tune in and embark on this enlightening journey with us!

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of The cracking backs Podcast. Today we sit down with the amazing Dr. Paul Varnas. Why do so many of us despite our best intentions, falter when it comes to proper nutrition? Dr. Paul with a career rooted deeply in this topic sheds light on this and more. Dive into the world of food sensitivities, unravel the mysteries of vitamin supplements, and discover if you're actually guzzling too much coffee. Ever wonder why the Western diet may be the culprit behind rising inflammation, or how the Palio fares against the keto diet? Well, today's your lucky day, from revealing intriguing tales of Ignatz Semmelweis to addressing the burning issue of COVID, and post COVID syndrome. This episode promises a wealth of knowledge, buckle up listeners, this is a journey through health and history, you won't want to miss.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:07

All right, nutrition. That's what we're here to talk about today, which is such a hot topic, but it's also such a broad topic and ever we can everyone can benefit from the knowledge that we have in our show today with Dr. Paul. So you have spent a good amount of your career on this subject. And why do you feel most people struggle with something that is so infinitely should be simple, which is proper nutrition?

Unknown: 1:35

Well, what's the I just finished reading a book by my Michael Oh, what's his name? I want to see more, but it could be wrong. It his New York Times writer wrote a book about how how people like McDonald's and Frito Lay and junk food people actually use neuroscientists to make stuff addictive. They, they, they they hook people up to PET scans and, and they'll try different versions of their product and see which lights up the pleasure centers best and do that. And, and then we train people to eat that from grade school, you ever been to a school cafeteria? You know, they specialize in junk food, and we become addicted. And as we become addicted, it changes our microbiome. Because you know, garbage in garbage out, you know, like, basically, what you don't digest your bacteria grow on. So that's why you can you know, you can say I'm gonna eat less, but eat the same way. You don't lose any weight. The microbiome, thin people have a different microbiome than fat people. You know, so we all develop fat people microbiomes and then we're addicted to the stuff and you know, this like, Okay, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna have a doughnut for breakfast, I'm gonna have a bagel I'm gonna do better, you know. So we're eat a lot of you know, about 50% of our diet is refined carbohydrates and get 20 pounds of sugar a year or 10 pounds of chemical additives. And there we are, you know, and we got a $4 trillion health care bill. And no one's addressing this. And like I say, go to a school. In fact, if you look at if you get a chance, Paul Stitt and his wife, I can't remember his wife's name, they stone, natural ovens, and Manitowoc Bread Company. And they set up a program in Appleton, Wisconsin, where they took over the all the all the all the sugar drinks went away, and they fed the kids breakfast and lunch. And they did this in a high school. That was for the problem children, you know, and, and by changing the food, they they they stopped having, you know, violent incidents and the grades went up, test scores went up and all that, and that's on video, it's on YouTube, I actually put it I put a link to it on my website. You know, like with a little article, one of my websites Whole Health web.com You can find it there are if you just go to YouTube and search Appleton schools, there's two videos and you'll see the difference. So, you know, we're stuck here, you know, and, and the, you know, Obama tried to change you know, Michelle Obama talks about eating healthy and all that kind of thing, but the food industry lobbyist is way too powerful. And, and they backed off of that right away. And, you know, the the crap they're feeding the kids is courtesy of the government, you know, so you know, there we are.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 4:49

Oh, sorry. Good. I had a quick question that I wanted to ask you. In regards to microbiome. A lot of our audience may not know what microbiome is, and that's a big, big Oh,

Unknown: 5:00

way you have days yeah, you have between three and seven pounds of bacteria in your in your intestines, okay? It's an ecosystem. It's supposed to be there. Many people may have heard of candidiasis and eat a lot of sugary take a lot of antibiotics and you get a lot of yeast in there and people get sick from that. Well, the big bacteria if you got good bacteria, they make vitamins, they heal the GI lining they they keep pathogens and check that kind of thing. And if you get the wrong kind of bacteria, they produce toxins. A lot of weird hormonal problems can come from it because they do conjugate stuff that delivers trying to get rid of and you know, produce ammonia, it's strongly linked to depression, you know, like like, like all this stuff on you know, antidepressants and all that all that research is fudged you know the whole Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors all bullshit and and finding out that depression is more about inflammation and what's going on in your gut. And that ecosystem is very important to a lot of different things. So you know, autoimmune diseases are increasing by 7% a year and and largely due to what's going on guys are also what's what we get in the environment, you know, there's genetic predisposition, there's all these other kinds of things, but, you know, you look at you know, like his figures for autism and ADHD, you know, you know, all these chronic diseases are going up because of what we're doing to the environment and, and what we're putting in our, in our stomachs, you know, I always think of I always think of Ignis simile Weiss, you know, you know, you know, he is some always came up with the idea that, gee, if the surgeons wash their hands between patients, and that, so many of them that would die, and, and basically got hounded out of the profession, he lost his job, he was mocked, he was, you know, all that, you know, that was that was in the mid mid 19 century. And the equivalent of that today is, there's no set, you know, there's no such thing as subclinical vitamin deficiency, chiropractic doesn't the, you know, I might be good for a backache. But they really need to get their act together and prove they, you know, the environment has nothing to do with your health, and, oh, you can eat whatever you want, you know, food additives don't matter. You know, so, you know, we're, you know, the same sort of people that, that existed in similar ways, time are with us, they just got different things to suppress now. So, you know, and it's interesting, because, you know, medicine presents itself as scientific, you know, you know, you got the white coat, and it's all you know, yeah, and even in school, you know, and chiropractors buy into it, too, you know, that they all these are the real scientists, you know, but it, you know, it's because all we haven't done the research, well, really, there's a lot of little research out there and in, you know, let's go back to grade school, when you learned what scientific method was, and that is you make an observation. Okay, and in, in, in once you make an observation, you know, you follow along with it, then you test it and see if it's true. So what happens is, you say, Oh, gee, I think, you know, if I, if I gave my making, if I gave my asthma patients magnesium, their symptoms seem to go down, you know, and you've got another another guy that, you know, got a bunch of practitioners doing that. And, you know, the medical authorities, the scientists will say, Well, no, that's not proven. That's not it, well, they've dismissed it out of hand they've already taken they've taken your, your, your hypothesis and just shut it down. Without even testing it, you know, so it's not really science, I mean, medical sciences to science with cherry Kool Aid is to cherries, it's, you know, real scientists like to look at medical journals and laugh, you know, you know, you look at the, the, you know, the fudge the results, they the opioid thing, you know, you know, they fudge their results, and the journals pay it pass it along, because not only do they sell advertising, but the pharmaceutical industry Well, if you put Bubblicious study will buy a million reprints and you know, on our people hand them out, you know, so they get a big chunk of cash that way, so they're controlling all the information there. Then there people are in the NIH and in the CDC, and so we've got this, this false view of what health is. And, and then if you see anything, otherwise it's not you know, look at COVID Oh, my God, you know, did you ever hear anyone talk about IV vitamin C, you know, there was a study that showed that vitamin D if you had a vitamin D level above 60, you would not get bad you would not end up in the hospital, you know, so are we testing vitamin D levels? No, no, there's a can't patent vitamin D. It's all about getting patents. We don't look for the best solution for health we look for the best patentable solution. You Certain healthcare is all screwed up. What do you think? You got the food industry on the other side? Keeping us you know, and we're getting say we're at $4 trillion. Okay, it's $11,000 for every man, woman and child, you know, and you could go, Okay, I want, you know, I want government health care, okay, well, then you're gonna be taxed$11,000 per person are gonna be our privacy sector, you're gonna shell out without 11,000 Because we're doing shit that don't work.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 10:25

What do you what do you think about now, there's a lot of medical doctors that are doing nutritional counseling, they're doing the lab work, and so on. And they're

Unknown: 10:36

part of that, and it's and it's good. The problem is, you know, yeah, is about the science, you know, I, you know, I do stuff in in my own office, and I can find studies that support it, or I can find other people that support it. But there's no research apparatus, you know, like, What's the best thing for leaky gut what's, you know, you know, you know, I'll talk to one I'll go to seminar and one guy, I'll have one thing, and he'll swear by it, and he's probably it's probably working somebody else's telling you something else. And so, so you don't have like, a concerted effort looking at these things? Because now, you know, we'll look at it. So, you know, that's very interesting. We'll look into it someday. You know, and what's, what's nice is because of, you know, how the Internet and PubMed and all that kind of stuff, we're getting a little more homogenized and what we're doing, there's more and more information, and the medical doctors, you know, they're not the enemy. 50% of all medical doctors are working for some kind of corporate entity. Okay. And a lot of them are, you know, you're not getting medical decisions from a doctor, you're getting it from an actuary and accompany somewhere, you know, my father in law had bradycardia, but it wasn't low enough to where they could give him a pacemaker, you know, they, you know, so the doctor who wanted to give him a pacemaker couldn't, you know, get it covered or whatever, and eventually ended up with dementia. You know, you know, I you know, because healthcare isn't being run by healthcare people, you know, I mean, look, look, look at the mess of COVID Oh, my God, you know, you know, you get 57 vaccines and while you won't, you'll get it but you won't get it so bad. You know, all we ignored everything else. And then Brownstein Dr. Brownstein hit him ran a little thing where he he got 150 COVID patients out of 150 fit patients better. You know, he set up a protocol that worked pretty well put it on his website, the FTC told him to shut it down because he couldn't make claims. He finally got permission to put it up there because he printed it as a study and said, according to my study, this is what happened. You know. Browsing snips is interesting. He's he's got he's got some good stuff. And, you know, I looked at his COVID protein is different remind, but if you look at I think the guy that best described how natural healthcare worse was, was Manuel Chu Raskin. And he presented it as a concentric circle. And, you know, I wish I had visual for it. But if he could picture the center of the circle is, you know, diet by rhythmic integrity, your genetics, environmental time, you know, that kind of thing. And if that gets messed up, the next level is your enzyme systems, is all of a sudden, enzymes don't don't work so good. Okay. And then further out, hormonal systems start to go wrong. And then you get general biochemical problems and further further out, you get physiological performance if that's someone's there, that's the person who goes from doctor to doctor and says he you know, something's not right. They ran tests, no one found nothing wrong with me and that kind of thing. Well, because the whole center of his circles right now, but he hasn't exhibited signs and symptoms, it gets signs and symptoms, then then there's a problem. I've got that on. I've got that on home health. I got that on Dr. vernice.com. Somewhere, too.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 14:03

We will we will post that I saw your the images in one of your brochure, pamphlets, and I'll have our engineer post the sequence that you

Unknown: 14:14

take anything try anything on my website, put it up, I don't care. Yeah, no, I'm trying to get see my whole thing is I want doctors, I want chiropractors and medical doctors to start doing this kind of work. You know, and, and whenever I go to a seminar, I'm very upset because it makes it like I pretend okay, if I don't know nothing, what am I going to get out of the seminar? And the seminar is usually you know, the guy's got his worst case that he ever saw in his life. You know, if you're sitting there and you don't know nothing's God, I'll never do that. And then the a lot of them are like food nerds. They'll tell you like, oh, even if you eat organic, you're getting glyphosate. There's still DDT in our food. They're you know the you know, the You know, they'll tell you, they'll tell you the woes of what's wrong with our environment. And they're right. But it's sort of like you get, you know, it's like the experiment with the dog where they kept shocking it, and he couldn't do anything to turn the shock off and just laid there and took it, you know, and so when you hear what's, how bad our environment harvath Or diet is, you know, screw it, I'm going to do that, you know, and, you know, I go to go to a supermarket. And I'll see, you know, chubby woman and her chubby kid, and they got Count Chocula, and diet pop and chips and shit, you know, that kind of thing. And I go, Well, they did. So maybe there's hope for us. And a lot of the stuff I wrote is sort of, like, let's not get into the controversy of ketogenic or, you know, or, you know, low fat versus low carb, you know, let's, let's just get the obvious chunk out of our diet. And I wrote a book called everything you want to know about energy, but we're too tired to ask. And, you know, and that was basically it, you know, certain, you know, and I listed, I got Ruth winters information, like she's got a book on food additives, and what they're doing and the things that are allowed, you know, and now we got GMOs, and that's a whole nother mess. And I finally took all the information and consolidated it. And you can make this available to your people put in a book called roadmap to health, it's a little tiny booklet, it's got recipes and handouts and things like that. And it's free to anybody, it's got some sore X information in there, because I write newsletters resource section in their hearts in the right place. I tried to help them out whenever I can. But anyway, it's not a perfect diet, you know, everyone says, you know, because, you know, you're the plant paradox. And, you know, you know, I don't address that what I what I've done with that, is, it's basically an Alkalyn you know, remember alkaline ash diet. I mean, the thing is, it works, you know, you go to Optimum Health Institute and people, you know, you see, see tumors shrink and all that, all that kind of stuff. And alkalinize basically, what fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, you know, so you know, 50 60% That's your, that's your food. We can we allow me, I don't get into vegan vegan can be very healthier. They're the sickest people you've ever seen in your life? You know? Well, yeah, because they don't, you know, they fill up on starch, you know, and then I added Elaine Gottschall discipline. I can't remember the doctor's name, Sydney has came up with a diet for kids with Crohn's disease, and, and, and it works about 33% of the time, colitis, Crohn's disease, and I found any kind of irritable bowel whatever. Most of these patients get better and basically avoid complex carbohydrates. And the reason you avoid link actuales argument in her book, it's called ESP food in the gut reaction, though, it's called ending the vicious cycle. And her argument is that we too many carbs, complex carbohydrates, you know, like like fruit sugar is carbohydrate, but it's simple. It's a simple sugar. You know, I mean, if if fructose fruit sugar is a train is a train car, then a complex carbohydrates, the whole train, you know, it's got to be split up into individual carbs. And we, we get inefficient at doing that. And so the bacteria take over it's stuff starts to rot in your intestines in your intestines, gets into the small intestine, where you're supposed to be getting more enzyme help and any start losing those enzymes and it kind of spirals out of control. And in you got Crohn's disease, you know, if it happens further down the line, you've got ulcerative colitis, and, you know, and I would argue irritable bowel syndrome, and you know, all that stuff. So I took that piece of information and it's not a forever thing, Elaine Gottschall herself would say, you know, he do it for two or three years and go back to eating complex carbohydrates. You want to give the guy a break, you know, and then you could take what you know about nutrition. You know, well, if my pet my pancreas isn't breaking down, enzymes, why don't I take pancreatic enzymes while I'm doing this diet, you know, to kind of help things long. And then there's product you know, colostrum and whatnot that help heal the gut and you can do antioxidants. And then now you got to Crohn's disease program out of it, but I start with this, this roadmap to health diet. And like I say, it's not perfect, there's people that can't handle nightshades there's people that can't handle eggs, you know, but it's I got sick of telling people the same thing every day. So I printed it you know, I got it, it's a PDF, anybody can have it and use it and you know, see how it is. And I tell people do it for 30 days. Because nutritional counseling is a negotiation, you know, people they're addicted and they you know, they don't want They don't want to give up their favorite things, but they can do anything for 30 days. And what I found is that in 30 days, they get the connection between what they're doing, and how they're feeling. You know, and I've had a year I get stories for that I had had one guy who was coming down from was, I mean, I'm in Illinois, in Chicago at the time, you know, with Crohn's disease, and I gave him the diet, and I never saw him, you know, and he called and thanked me and said, he went into remission stayed there, you know, I had a friend of mine, two sinus infections a year for 20 years, I put them on the diet, they stopped, you know, you know, it is high in antioxidants. High in Palo Alto and ash tightly, if you look up, if you Google Alkalyn ash diet, you find every slug, nobody in the world weighs in on the Oakland A's diet, you know, but, but, you know, think about it, it's high in poly phenols. Now, you start looking at the research on poly phenols, you know, bioflavonoids, and stuff like that, you know, Resveratrol is a poly phenol that, you know, this kind of thing. Well, that's what the diets high in, you know, anti cancer and, you know, anti allergy and you know, like, you name it in your fixing that. So, anyway, I usually, a lot of times, I'll start people on that diet for 30 days, and then see where I end up. I usually, a lot of times, I don't even have to give them supplements, you know, it's anti inflammatory. I know, you had Siemens, they're talking about the anti inflammatory diet, you know, foods create inflammation, or they get rid of inflammation. And I tried to do it in a way where people could eat normally, you know, because, once again, a lot of people in my world are food Nazis. Oh, you can't do that. And no, you know, you know, you know, I mean, you know, like, you're stuck, you know, like, you're on a strip somewhere, you go to McDonald's have a salad. Okay. Yeah, it's not the best salad in the world, but the hell you know, what are you gonna do, you know, you gotta eat something and you you get to all this is bad, that's, that's bad, you end up like that dog laying on the grid getting shocked all the time, you know, you don't do nothing. And also, you don't come to the relationship, all your patients are gonna die. And, and, you know, in healthcare is the goal of health care is to die young is late in life and possible as possible. And so, you know, you know, and so someone who, it just pains them to give up certain things, but they're not that sick. You know, you know, we're gonna do you know, so you always end up coming to a, like an agreement, I had a guy, he came to me, we had 900, triglycerides, 900 triglycerides, you know, this is actually talking about scientific medicine. He had them on a statin triglycerides. He liked to say that, I told him throw it away. And then I told him the diet, you know, it's just basically insulin insensitivity, you know, you don't eat it. Well, it's the diet I've got, or you can look up glycemic load, not eat anything over over glycemic load pan. And I gave him a bunch of like, pork acid nice. And, you know, all that. And he said to me, he was his political guidance. In Springfield, he said, The food's really bad there. And he says it Plus, he's always going out. And he says, I live in the land of Dolby white men. And he says, I'm not sure I'll be able to do much on the diet. So he says, but I'll take as many pills as you give me, I took me in His Word. And in a couple of months, we had cut it in half and without him paying much attention to the diet, you know, and, you know, so you can do it with supplements. And I usually have, you know, when I have that diet discussion with people, you know, like, I tell them, you know, I'll sell you more supplements, but you know, it's fewer visits, fewer supplements, if you follow the diet, you know, when I was teaching nutrition, one had someone who was like a raw food proponent, I Alkalyn, you know, that kind of thing. It's just so you shouldn't have to take vitamins ever. And, well, actually, the way she's right you know, that

Dr. Spencer Baron: 24:06

leads that is one of my one of the questions that I really wanted to ask you about is, you know, when you're taking tons of vitamins, you know, vitamin supplements and you know, how do you really know what's working and how would you would you do lab tests are you well, you could do labs

Unknown: 24:23

you could do I was I was a big fan when I first got in practice Sander process had a thing called the health questions. They had a health questionnaire symptom survey form, yes, you know, and I thought was a coolest thing. And, you know, and unfortunately, everybody needs AF beta food and drink. And I was became interested in it and started collecting questions. And I actually created I've got symptom quiz.com where I put the questionnaire but if you go to Dr. vernice.com, I have a newer version that you can do on your phone the old versions on symptoms, was.com And you can put a, it asks you a bunch of quest, for instance, you get tired after eating. Okay? Now that can be a digestive issue, hydrochloric acid is common thing. But it also can mean that you're thymine deficient and you got blood sugar issues, okay? You might be, you might be on the hypoglycemia, so you get tired after eating, and you're not getting enough time and you're not making enough, you're getting too much pyruvate and you get sleepy when you eat. Okay, so you take that piece of information, and then if, you know, the patient tells you some other B, vitamin things, I mean, you know, MSG bothers them, which is a, b, b, six thing and, you know, you start putting these things together, and you get a need B vitamin, you know, and you look at the diet, and they're, you know, they're, they're full of refined carbohydrates, given a B complex is not a bad idea, you know, throw in a little magnesium, while I'm at it, you know, my practice I was, I've been all cash since the 1980s. And in what I found a couple of things is, you have to show them something quick, you know, so I did a K and I give a pretty good adjustment. And, and the other thing is, a lot of people can't afford tests, you know, you know, some muscle testing, and I got into, you know, talking to detail history, you know, you take that person who gets tired after eating, they wake up in the middle of the night, that's slam dunk for thiamin. You know, it's also an adrenal issue, but, you know, you know, they need B vitamins, you know, they don't remember their dreams, that's a B six, b one, you know, so So that's you know, so I put together actually wrote wrote a wrote one, I sold it to the nutritional therapy associates had 256 questions on it? And it would, it would sort it out, it would sort it out. You know, it could be your I started disk of it somewhere. They're using it, they actually rewrote it so that they didn't like, like, my mind would give reports, you know, like, like, if you scored high in this area, you got a dream home, and it would tell you what, you know what to do. They wanted something like, oh, you scored Here, take this, you know, they wanted more like that. And but anyway, I I got it down to like 40 questions for symptom quiz.com. You know, it took the real Yeah, cuz a lot of odd stuff for hypothalamus and you know, it just everything I'd ever heard of. I threw in that questionnaire and

Dr. Spencer Baron: 27:34

we could get that on your website.

Unknown: 27:36

The old the old one. No, no, that's the NTA nutritional therapy Association. They bought it from me and they rewrote it. Okay. And and they've got it like I say, I've got a disc somewhere. I we call it green crow. Because the guy made it with his name was Kevin green and fairness means Crow, and Lithuanian. And, you know, so so he did, but that was back in the 90s. I didn't know anything.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 28:06

Well, that's really, I'll tell you that that makes that makes a lot of sense. And is something very viable, I am absolutely certain that our viewers are going to want to access that questionnaire, or find your

Unknown: 28:20

better ones eye doctor furnace.com/symptom quiz. Yeah, that's the or if you go to Dr. barnes.com. In the upper right corner, it'll say symptom quiz, you click on that. And I put it together, you know, trying to be entrepreneurial with this. I'm trying to get doctors, we actually made it so any doctor can put it on his website. And, and I've written, I've written a book of 100 some pages that explains all the questions tells you what to do, you know, it's divided into nine categories, you basically tried to make an idiot proof nutrition for doctors can do that. Because that's always been a thing. If more people did Holistic Health, you know, I mean, we could kick the rotted log that is traditional medicine and get them out of out of the chronic disease business and people wouldn't be so sick, you know. And whenever I talk to doctors, they're intimidated by this information. And it really isn't that hard. I mean, if every chiropractor out there just started screening, for instance, insulin insensitivity, okay, that's 100 million people in the United States. 80% of the people who are not diabetic to HIV, have insulin sensitivity don't know they have it 25% of the type two diabetics don't know they have it. And you know, look at look at what you're getting. You're fixing with it. You're fixing headaches, fatigue, you're fixing ovarian cysts fibroids, digestive problems, reflux you know the there's this whole list if he did nothing but screen your people for insulin insensitivity. Okay? And it's an A one C test you get up above 5.5 your your your your insulin assessor get plus point plus point past 6.1. I forget the numbers. You know it's type two diabetes treatments like it's a turnkey easy treatment you give them my Berberine 500 milligrams three times a day you give them most companies have some sort of glucose. Multiple biotics makes gluco balanced Zurich's has something called CGM. If you give something like that, you give them as much magnesium as you can get in them. Okay, because interesting thing if you're making too much insulin, you're not absorbing magnesium. And it's for sure. Magnesium deficiency Plus, there's adrenal issues if you got adrenal issues, you got magnesium deficiency, which is a very common deficiency. And so you want to take magnesium to bowel tolerance, you know, you take it last thing at night and you add little at a time until you get soft stools and then that's how much magnesium you can handle. You give them that if they got any kind of numbness or anything you can like poke acid to get high triglycerides you give them lipoic acid what else fish oil I go back and forth official official I don't like to give more than a bottles worth because there's an area of plastic the size of Texas in the Pacific Ocean, and we don't you know, 77% of all Americans have plastic actual plastic in their in their bloodstream. And I don't know that people selling fish oil or testing for plastic. I mean, the good ones will check for mercury in which the lotions are also followed. And I'll tend to switch over to a flaxseed oil no one likes flax oil, because fish oil go goes to PG three quicker, you know, it's a more active form and all that. And when you look at all the research oils, research, anti inflammatory cardiac, all these benefits, but they're all short term, you know, it's all you know, six months a year, you know, that sort of thing. And, and actually ourselves like to have two parts Omega six to one part Omega three, so, you know, flex oils looking better. That way and maybe extra flax seeds with the lignans, you know, for that, so, anyway. And basically, if every chiropractor or MD who still wants to be independent and not work for a corporate entity did simply that you've got a via and I wrote a book, I'll give it to you. Free use it, take it, you know, it mentioned sorry, its products, because I like them, they're nice people. You know, it's all you got to do is just become an expert in insulin sensitivity. And you've got right there, you've got a viable functional medicine practice, and then you can start learning from there. You know, anybody who does functional medicine will tell you 10% of what they know, fixes 90% of the patients, you know, but when you go to the seminar, the guy is going to give you that 2% that oh man, I didn't know what to do. And I'll never learned this stuff.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 33:02

So, you know, can you just for a moment. You know, keto is another diet that people are crazy about. I'm paleo. And, you know, what's the difference between the two and

Unknown: 33:14

well, keto, I mean, you want to go want to go into you gotta you gotta realize he get a nation that eats 200 pounds of sugar. And in 50% of their, their diet is refined carbohydrates. You put them on a ketosis diet, they're gonna think they died and went to heaven.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 33:32

Might be a little hard on

Unknown: 33:33

the kidneys, but I'm feeling better. I'm not falling asleep in the afternoon. Yeah, I mean, you know, balances, it's about all things. And starting, you know, if you start a peak, take our, you know, our insulin insensitive person, put them on a keto diet, they're gonna do wonderfully, you know, I don't know, if you want to live like that for the rest of your life. But, you know, and they do, you know, it's good with people with seizures, you know, if you're healing from a burn, if, you know, there's, you know, there's things that are that, that it's good for. I like the idea of, I like the poly phenols, you know, like brightly colored produce, and you're getting your antioxidants get a lot of benefits that way. But then you got the plant paradox, you know, saying, oh, you know, you're we've got lectins and we're clumping yourselves with you know, all if you cook the crap out of it, then you don't have so much of a problem. But see, my, the, one of the reason I'm not selling my book is it's not for everybody, you know, and it's short, you know, I mean, I mean, I'd have to sell it for a nickel or something

Dr. Spencer Baron: 34:38

that's valuable, valuable,

Unknown: 34:40

you know, but it isn't for everybody, but it's something I start with and then I can say to them, you know, you don't seem to agree I got rheumatoid arthritis and you probably shouldn't have night seeds. Now you KKR muscle test and nightshades you know, you got to take nightshades away or you're allergic to eggs or, you know, I mean, you got to fine tune it from there. Um, But 90% of the time, even if they're getting some of the foods that they shouldn't have, they do so much better on that diet. Like I said, I've had people not come in the office because they did the diet and cleared them up. And that was fine with me, you know,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 35:15

gluten and dairy? How do you feel about that?

Unknown: 35:19

Well, on the initial diet, I take it away. And a lot of the problem with this problem with gluten. Sometimes it's not gluten, you know, we don't eat the same grain that we that that humanity grew up with, you know, we get we're eating a hybrid form. And there's a protein in there called Gilead in which you can test for, there's a lot of people that aren't celiac disease, but they do so much better if they don't have gluten, or because they're getting late Gliadin, you know, and they got all kinds of allergies and problems. And most people do better if they just stay away from wheat. But interestingly enough, I'll have people go to Europe, you know, so I can't eat, we hear Kenny we hear I'll go to Europe, and I've, you know, oh man, I ate bread and everything I lost 15 pounds.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 36:11

Dairy, the dairy issue that's going on these? Well,

Unknown: 36:14

once again, dairy, you know, you if they're high up the food chain, you know, like chemical issues, but I don't, I won't always tell everyone stay off a dairy. But I'll take it away initially, you know, in that roadmap to hip tight, because first of all, it's got lactose, which is a disaccharide. Now, I want to follow Elaine Gottschall. So, you know, you know, to get them started, because if they got reflux, or they got digestive problems, you know, I'm taking care of that right away. And then I'll have them introduce dairy. And let me tell you, if there's a problem, it'll kick their ass when they start eating it. You know, and I try to get people to know what they should or should not eat, you know, for themselves, because you know, he there is no one diet that's good for everybody. The closest I came is what I got in the in the roadmap to help. And that isn't even perfect. But if you if you got a practitioner working with you, you can you know, you can fine tune it and make it work. And then when you done the initial 30 days, you start reintroducing things, you know, and if the food is a problem, you'll know it right away.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:25

Docter Varnas, let me ask you about leaky gut. Can you describe, you know, for the layperson, you know, what leaky gut actually is and how it happens?

Unknown: 37:38

Well, you I mean, you got Scott 75% of your immune system. I mean, you know, it's like the Border Patrol, you know, and leaky gutters, wouldn't say, hey, take those titles, Razor covered buoys out of the out of the river.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:56

analogy,

Unknown: 37:57

but basically, you know, you got, you got the small intestine, which is, you know, you got projectiles on it called villi. And then you got microvilli on the villi. And I think if you took the small intestine, it's about 20 feet long and about an inch in diameter, but if you flattened it all out and planned all the villi, you'd have the area of about two tennis courts, okay? And, and the cells, you know, so So what it is, is putting a lot of cells in close conjunction with what's what's coming through that. And the cells decide, okay, you get in, you don't, and the cells are, you know, joined together like that, you know, but you start giving the wrong kind of bacteria, a, your chemical exposure stuff, they start to separate a little bit and stuff sneaks in, you know, you get peptides and, you know, you know, like, you're supposed to get an amino acid, instead, you get a peptide, which is three or four of the train cars put together. And then your immune system reacts to that, and then all of a sudden, you know, oh, God, I can't, you know, you know, I can't, I can't eat strawberries because, you know, start having problems with allergies. It gets bad enough, you get into autoimmune, I know, like, rheumatoid arthritis. They tend, it's not everybody, but they tend to have a high Pseudomonas level and proteins and they're certain tissue type and there's a protein sequence on Pseudomonas that's similar to the protein type into the joint and you know, and you know, so then they start attacking their own joints, you know, and you get into auto immune and you know, that sort of thing. You know, and you know, like he goes into PubMed you start looking at it and you gotta realize you know, the guys that were trying to suppress it ignore assemble Weiss are still there. So they'll tell you all there's nothing to that. And, you know, yeah, there is something to that. And you'd like to do some kind of got, you know, you can do a Zonulin test unit test, sign it and get high Zonulin. It means that stuff's getting into doesn't build On. And, and you can take things like colostrum, there's different there, every company has got their leaky gut stuff. You know, microbiome labs, I think has a good one called mega mucosa. Which is cubby design, designing and test, take that stuff, you know, and change the population of what's growing down there. You know, people like to take probiotics, but you know, you got to think about what you're doing. If you don't change the environment, you know, it's a lot like taking tigers and dropping them off in Antarctica, they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll forage around for a while you're gonna drop dead, you know,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:40

you have the best, you have the best metaphors, I mean, there, you have a whole ton of them. I it's actually a great learning learning tool or teaching tool. You know, and I appreciate the leaky gut explanation. And I want to go back to your alkaline diet, because I'm a big fan of that, I think that really made a difference for me at certain times in my life, but is it is it

Unknown: 41:07

the alkaline diet works, I'm not knocking it, what I'm what I'm knocking is the explanation for it, you know, you know, if your pH changes by very much, you die. And, and that's got its roots into, you know, you know, the, into the 20s and 30s. And, you know, the talk, you know, talk about acid and Alkalyn, and different diseases were acid, you know, that sort of thing. And I used to tell people look up the Auckland diet and follow it no way back and 100 years ago, but then they look at it, and they'd think I was crazy, because they'd read what people wrote about the alkaline diet, you know, because the explanation, you know, the best possible explanation for the alkaline diet is you can say that, you know, if I want to go Alkalyn, I'm not, I'm not changing my pH, but I'm burning through magnesium, calcium and phosphorus, trying to keep my pH balanced and wasting all this energy to keep my pH balanced, you know, and so, I'm going into a nutrient deficit, because my foods are too acid, you know, and that's okay. But I, I, I like talking about poly phenols. I got research that shows me poly phenols,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:25

would you use a urine stick to to monitor your pH to keep it at?

Unknown: 42:31

I never do? No. I mean, you know, I grew up with it, you know, I grew up, my family physician was a chiropractor. My parents didn't have me vaccinated. And, you know, he did stuff with the pH and, and all that, and I have done it. But I don't because too many things affect affect pH. It's like, it's like thyroid, okay. You know, you read brought a Barnes and, you know, if at all, if you got an axillary temperature below 990 6.2, I forget what it is. And all that, you know, like, oh, it's hypothyroidism, you know, and you read his book, and it's like, all like that. But so, so many things affect temperature, you can't really, you can't really say that it's one tool, you know, even the blood tests for thyroid, or you know, or not, you know, British Medical Journal, probably something saying, Yeah, we might be, we might be diagnosing thyroid run, and TSH is useless. So interesting.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:32

Is it safe to say that, keeping them more alkaline diet? And I'm basing my opinion on the byproduct of, you know, muscular contraction, you know, we've always been told lactic acid, there's obviously other other byproducts. But would that neutralize the acids or the byproducts, it wouldn't have an alkaline diet would reduce that potential for, you know, soreness, you know, in the way of lactic acid I can imagine.

Unknown: 44:02

So my brain don't go there. You know, it's something I don't, I don't think think about it, you know, but lactate and pyruvate, once again, you're talking B vitamins. You know, but it makes sense. All I can tell you is everyone I've ever known that came to me and said I'm taking I'm following an alkaline diet. They were doing really well. Yeah. Okay. I have and, and I don't, I don't knock it. You know, I just say I wonder if the explanation is really what it you know, like, why it works. Okay. I don't know that. I haven't seen research on that. But, you know, I would have no qualms about saying, hey, look up the Oakland ash diet and follow it and you'll be great. You know, you know, I have no problem with that. mechanistically I can't tell you anything about the alkalinity.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:00

Alright. Let's let's move on to heavy metals. Okay, you don't mind jumping out like

Unknown: 45:08

Van Halen pretty well. In AC DC, everybody should have one AC DC song on their iPad iPad. If you have more than the edits we've done, it's like listening to bluegrass, every song is the same or reggae, you know.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:27

That was good. And I happen to have both bands on my iPad, or my iPhone, excuse me.

Unknown: 45:35

You know, it's old white guy music. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:40

Arrows, all the rest of the gang. So your thoughts about heavy metals?

Unknown: 45:46

Oh, yeah, they're problem. I mean, you know, a lot of times I remember back, you know, back when I was very active in practice, you know, they a lot of rehabbing going on, you know, taking old buildings and people get lead. And, you know, I'd have to key late that out. You know, and I didn't do too much of the chelation challenge stuff. Once again, I, you know, I'm all cash and people in the US $300 For for 24 hour urine sample, and you know, that I used hair a lot just to kind of screen and if I, if I suspected it, I'd go ahead and do do like a light chelation kind of routine. You know, Mercury had a lot. I mean, the dentists are going crazy with mercury, they're not so much anymore. You know, and then Candida, that whole Candida Mercury connection, you know, like, you know, if you got get a lot of mercury have a tendency to have Candida. You know, and yeah, it's a problem. I mean, you know, it shouldn't be screened for more likes, I don't see that many people anymore. So I'm not doing much with heavy, heavy metals, either. I sold my practice in 2003. So

Dr. Spencer Baron: 46:54

good, very good. So I want to ask you about, you had mentioned about plastics. And I was fascinated by your statistic on how much plastic isn't in the system is how do we get rid of it?

Unknown: 47:12

I don't know. I mean, there's stuff there's for you know, the CDC has found like 100 average American has 114 chemicals in their body just kind of hanging out there. And, and that's only out of those they test for and I forget the how many hundreds of 1000s of pods how many different varieties account, you know, there's there, you know, I mean, we're living in a chemical soup, you know, the transgender thing here is gone, you know, transgender all these things mimic hormones, and all of a sudden, we get this explosion and transgenders, you know, stuff. And I'm sure there's an environmental connection, at least in some of it. You know, it's not all of them are coming out of the closet, all of a sudden, I think there's an actual increase in in what's going on. And a lot of these a lot of a lot of those antibiotics mimic estrogen. You know, and, you know, so aromatase inhibitors, Miltos, good, aromatase inhibitor, di m I forget what that stands for. You know, it's not a good, you know, not a bad thing. You know, she guys breasts and, you know, that sort of thing. You know, the, you know, and if you look at kind of just what, I can't remember her name, she did a seminar on hormones. And she came up with fright. I was I felt like the dog laying on the grate getting shot, was just talking about how unhealthy we're getting in a hormonal sense, since, you know, be cut because of what's, you know, what's in the environment. You know, she did a study, she showed a study of sperm counts from the 1970s to the present, they're steadily going down, you know, and you see all this infertility and stuff like that. So what's what's the Vironment? Um, you know, I mean, it's a problem, you know, fortunately, like, I say, that chubby lady and her chubby kid are dead. So, you know, you know, should be doing things to do it people that are like true warriors in this, you know, I've been some seminars, me now. You know, it gets hold. Water Filtration sits in and all that, and they're still got, yeah, you can get a little OCD about it, you know, and still back.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:30

Yeah, hormones and antibiotics seemed to be plentiful in our foods these days. You know, good and good.

Unknown: 49:38

But, you know, talking to a patient, you know, nutritional therapy, nutritional consultations, like a negotiation. It's like, what are you going to do? You know, because if I tell them too much of what's wrong, their dog laying on the grate getting shot, and you know, they just, you know, they'll they'll just shut down. So, I usually say Start with what can we do that's positive, you know, and they usually start with, let's get the obvious junk out of your diet, and they feel good enough. And then gradually, they'll they'll do more and more as, as they feel better. You know, they'll get into it, you know? Because if you tell them all this, oh, my God, you know, you know, you know, and I'm not that strict. I, you know, I figure you know, I'm 71 I probably probably got another decade or two tops. You know, so I want to kick cat.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:34

Right? So we're going to dive into a section of our program that we really are fond of, it's the rapid fire questions, I got five of them for you. You can give me Oh, rapid I can be I was gonna say, you know, we tend to want like a couple, you know, one word or two or Well, a sentence or so. But we ended up getting carried away with the, the answer. So have at it. All right, ready? Question number one. What is your favorite cheap food?

Unknown: 51:08

My favorite cheap food? Yeah, pizza.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:11

Pizza, very good. When traveling, what is the best secret? To keep healthy?

Unknown: 51:20

Blood? My wife handled the issues.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:25

I understand that one. If you were going, if you were going to go back in time, who would you want to meet? And what question would you ask them?

Unknown: 51:35

Oh, good. One go with the, you know, the obvious one would be Jesus, I guess. But that sounds like so cliche.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:45

It's great to ask him. Hmm, what would you ask? If that was the one

Unknown: 51:53

the person got that they had? I can't tell you. I would hope I would have some time to prepare something I might go, I might go to Lincoln and tell him not to go to the theater. You know.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:13

Very good. Question number four, best book on nutrition that you've read that you feel everybody else? Well, God, there's

Unknown: 52:23

a number of the one I think everyone should start with is nutrition and physical degeneration. By Weston Price that gets you started with the idea of boy are we screwed? You know, but there's so many other other good, you know, good books out there. But I would look at that and passengers cat cats as the like the basic get started, you know, in understanding what's going on.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:55

Great, great answer favorite go to supplement that you feel everyone should start taking right now.

Unknown: 53:01

I don't know, there's no such a thing. Um, but I've seen a lot of magnesium deficiency. You know, I gotta say that, and it also depends on your, you know, the lifestyle what, what their issues are, you know, like, you know, and, and there isn't any, I would say I give more magnesium than anything else. You know, but a lot of it depends. And I do I use a lot of formulas, you know, like, you know, like biotics and zorbax, they'll they'll put things out, like, if you have insomnia issues, they got, you know, Zorich has a great little insomnia product that that you can use. And if you pick up their time and levels while you're at it, then then you've dealt with that. And I do it according to what's going on with the patient. You know, I mean, if you read Brownstein, you'd say it was iodine. And there's a good case for iodine because it used to be, you know, you know, dough conditioners, you know, like you they used to be all made with iodine. You mix it up in the dough and everything blows up. You don't have to wait for the bread, the rice, you know, now now it's got bromine in it, which displaces iodine. You know, you're getting a lot of bromine in our food. And you know, they're getting a lot of chlorine and fluoride in our water and stuff like that we're displacing halogens. And so, you know, when Bronstein says take a pound and a half of iodine every day, it might be right. So

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:28

fascinating, fascinating. I got I am curious about what you would say about chronic pain. And then the second part of that is post COVID syndrome that people are dealing with, what are your thoughts? If you don't mind sharing some of your

Unknown: 54:46

well I mean, chronic pain, kind of got it got some newsletters on that I can show you pain meds don't. They work but there's lots of diminishing returns and they ultimately make them things worse and they, they, they break they, they break down cartilage and bone and you know, so you know, if you're going more than a week on something like that you're in deep doo doo. I like I like I like pancreatic enzymes a lot. on an empty stomach, and I used to use biotics, intense I'm 14, but it doesn't have much climate trypsin in it, you gotta take a fistful of them. So Rex in a company called PHP makes one, it's got about 25 milligrams of climate trypsin in it, and you take, you know, take two of those on an empty stomach. I'll tell you, Thanksgiving, one year, the Monday after Thanksgiving, I was supposed to take over the office for a guy who was having neck surgery if he was at a seminar, and he fell backwards, and he blew a disc in his neck. And he couldn't work anymore. And he did a K and he, you know, is about 20 miles away from me. And he said, Can you can you run my office while I'm getting my surgery to do that. And, you know, I saw I agreed to it. And I was supposed to start the Monday after Thanksgiving. And I was sitting there and all of a sudden, I had pain, Pina was shot myself, if I, I, if it was going to last much longer, and went down the leg all the way all the way in my foot, and I had a drop foot, you know, and then I gotta run this guy's office you know, and I didn't want to let him down because he was really counting on me. And, and so I immediately went on an anti inflammatory diet, you know, basically lots of color produce, you know, on that, and Thanksgiving, that was tough. And, and I started taking enzymes, and at the time, I only knew about intense I'm supposed to get 20 at a shot, you know, three times a day, take them on an empty stomach, lots of research. I got to pull some of the stuff

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:05

because the company and I remember

Unknown: 57:07

in 10 times probiotics, but I don't use it anymore, because you got to take a fistful of them. You really do. So anyway, I started taking them and by Monday, I was out of pain, but I still had dropped foot wow, you know, I got an adjustment adjustment and, and I was able to run his office and be careful while we were out because every time I picked up my foot my foot plantar flex to a flat flat early office, but I was out of pain by then you know. So, so yeah, I think a lot of enzymes and different companies, you know, curcumin and curcumin from what I understand it's got to be in a form that can be absorbed, it's not well absorbed. And once again, everybody's got some kind of herbal combination, you know NF kappa B suppressing stuff you know you can take you can take that too but I my my go to is usually enzymes

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:19

post COVID syndrome sandwich test, I'll test to see what I'm going for. You know, you know,

Unknown: 58:29

everybody impulse COVID should do to do that I you know, I put them on a robanda health diet and you know, see what they can do you know, vitamin D antioxidants give them a lot of quercetin. See what I can do for their gut. I've looked at the gut you know, okay

Dr. Terry Weyman: 58:51

you know, I've been sitting back and just enjoying this this show because oh my god you're like a plethora of information it's just been fantastic and and so it's been nice to listen to all this stuff. You know, with us coming to a close you have the floor so what what message you I leave everything

Unknown: 59:13

the message I want to leave is for any physician chiropractor, anybody start getting into functional medicine, it's not rocket science. And we really need it I mean people people in our healthcare system is falling apart and you could be the Phoenix that rises from the ashes and it's not difficult a lot of the stuff that I've got whole health web Dr. Bernstein calm you know, like I say, by plugs or it's a little bit but I don't have to do that. You know, I've actually created marketing material to help you get that going. I will answer your questions get started in this your, you know, their, you know, their healthcare systems falling apart. I share office with a guy who's who's a musculoskeletal guy and you He struggles to get back aches in his office. And it's like, you know, and he's got a lady with a digestive problem, he wants to send her to me and said, No, we'll take care of it, I'll tell you what to do. And he's inside, don't be intimidated. You know, it's, if you look at the shirt, Rascon circle, got that as a, as a poster that you put on your board that explains it. You just fixing infrastructure, you know, like, like, so. So what would you do for for asthma? Hang on? Well, I'll give him magnesium, you know, and but magnesium doesn't fix asthma, magnesium fixes a magnesium deficiency, okay, but if you have a magnesium deficiency, and you've got asthma, your asthma is going to be worse. You know, so so, you know, people, we still think medically, what do you take for this? You know, Goodheart used to used to talk the audiences, what do you do for tic Delarue, you know, you know, is fixed what you find, you know, and, and that's what, what you need to do and to start with something because I mean, it literally is as easy you got someone sitting on the floor, banging themselves in the head with a ball peen hammer, asking if you can help them with their headaches, and all you got to do is say, Stop hitting yourself with the hammer, and you're gonna get a result, okay, now, it won't be perfect, you got to fine tune it, but you got it's not emergency medicine, you got time to learn things and in pick up things and and, and you're not treating disease, you're fixing infrastructure, that's what that's what you do with natural health care, that's for chiropractors, do we fix infrastructure, we line things up, we help the patient get out of their own way or their nervous system get out of its own way. And, and the one message is get started because the anybody with a chronic disease is in deep crap, because of the way our medical system is, you know, I mean, and chiropractors get part I had a guy, you know, is called, I got bloating, I got pain, and I you know, it's chiropractor and and you know, in His heaven, you know, gi tests and all this kind of stuff. He's been a pro sec, for God's sakes, Pelisek as you see ball. You know, I mean, my God. You know, so you got to start killing what's down there and, you know, fix it. But that informations available. I'm going to try I've got to update my sites, I got a whole health web and in that I try to get the information on there. You know, that people can can use, like, I don't even sell to advertisers. You know, I feel sorry. Sorry, x is a great company though. The one thing I like about Zurich's is they you cannot find their products on Amazon. It's you know, and, and Harry Eigner advises them in here. He's a genius. He did the bio chemical biopsy the bouncing the body chemistry through nutrition. You know, it just knows stuff. And he used to be a, he used to be Santa process rep back when Goodhart Dan Duffy. And, you know, and and he he had an interesting take on instead of selling people say buying a lot of this he show up in the office. Why? Why are you using it? What's it do? You know? And here, Harry, Harry will tell you a protocol. And you'll say why the hell is that in there? And he'll tell you style. Dr. Blum used to do this. And he, he fixed it. He's got stories for it. It's just the basic stuff. And now he's doing formulations for sore X, you know, and they're coming up with some pretty interesting products, like their gallbladder product is, you know, it's artichoke based. Everybody else uses beats, you know, beets have oxalates. And, you know, here he knows that, you know, so anyway, while this might serve its commercial anyway,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:56

Dr. Varnas you have been spectacular, we appreciate you. You have such a vast knowledge base. And we're super informative that, you know, we're gonna, you know, provide access to your information, your email

Unknown: 1:04:13

me anything you want. I'll give you, you know, yeah, like, if you want any of those books I'll get I'll send them to you. No.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:20

That's great. That's great. Thank you so much again, it was a pleasure having you on the show. And we'll look to speak to you again in the future. Okay, thank you enjoyed it. Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.