Can the length of your bones reveal hidden secrets and abilities?

In this transformative episode of the "Crackin' Backs Podcast," we're thrilled to welcome the innovative minds of Dr. Christopher and Dr. David Bailey. Delving deep into the biomechanics realm, they'll share their expertise on the bio lever system—a pioneering approach that leverages the principles of levers within the human body to predict athletic outcomes, prevent injuries, and foster healing. This method stands in stark contrast to conventional healthcare practices, emphasizing the mechanical over the merely symptomatic.

The Bailey brothers will guide us through the intricacies of identifying structural strength zones. These zones, critical for both elite athletes and everyday individuals, are areas within the body that, due to their unique biomechanical advantages, can sustain greater forces, thus playing a pivotal role in optimizing physical performance and rehabilitation strategies.

Moreover, we'll hear compelling case studies demonstrating the bio lever system's profound impact on patients' health and quality of life. From enabling athletes to achieve peak performance while minimizing injury risks, to facilitating quicker, more effective recovery processes for those sidelined by physical setbacks, the Baileys' insights promise to enlighten and inspire.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

dive into the world of biomechanics and lever systems with the cracking backs podcast where our guests the dynamic Bailey brothers Dr. David and Dr. Christopher explore the bio lever system. This study of energy transfer from one body part to another through joint and is based on the human body's natural lever system. Learn how to unravel this unique approach to protect athletic outcomes, prevent injuries and accelerate healing, setting it apart from conventional health care methods. This unique analysis ensures thorough scientific evaluation, that muscle groups can be completely isolated during activities such as strength training, and greatly reduce the stress and trauma to a joint. As a result, injuries and surgeries are dramatically reduced and or eliminated. Get inspired by real life success stories where the bio lever system has transformed health and improved quality of life. Tune into the cracking backs, podcast for your dose of science, health and innovation and learn how to leverage your body's mechanics for peak performance and recovery.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:17

So yeah, what Welcome to show I'm so excited to have you guys on because I've known these two boys for Coyle a time, you've always made me laugh, you've always inspired me. So I can't wait to talk about some of the stuff we're doing. Because I always say in the end, we have to got guests on same time. And that we say two brains are better than one, except in my condition in my situation with my partner. That's why he'll be doing most of the talking. However, I did, I did want to say thank you. I can't wait to talk about some of the concepts that that you guys have been working on for decades. And can I get my brain thinking about some stuff. So welcome to the show, guys.

Unknown: 2:01

Thank you very much, Derek. Good to be here. Thank you, Darren. So

Dr. Terry Weyman: 2:04

let's just kick this right off. And as chiropractors, we've always been told we had to adapt, you know, we have some chiropractors are six, five, some they're barely 411. And we've always had to figure out how to make those adjustments. When we have somebody walk in it's four foot one versus seven foot so and we've always been told about the lever system and how we have to, to we don't hurt ourselves make things work, but you guys took it to another twist. And you talked about training based off of like the bones and lever system. So where did all that start?

Unknown: 2:43

It started in 1994. We were at a large fitness Expo in San Francisco. I go walking pipe past a booth and I said to myself, what is that? So I go talk to this gentleman, his name is Gerald. And I asked him Hey, what is this thing? Because it was a weird looking setup. He said, Well, this is designed to measure your lever lengths and angles and determine where your advantage and training. I said, I said you gotta be kidding me. So he measured me. And then he told me everything I can do well, athletically and things I could not do well, and he was 90% accurate. And I said this is mind boat blowing. So I went and grabbed my brother, Dr. Chris, I said Chris, you got to check this out. This is this is off the frickin chart. So he did the same thing that my brother measured him, told him everything he could do well, athletically, things he could not do was 90% accurate. And we were hooked. Yeah. And then after that. We had him come out Gerald Riley and his brother David Riley. They're the founders of this incredible science that they've been using for probably 35 years and we were introduced to that again about 9594. So we got a unit purchased a unit got trained by them and started to understand that everybody has different long torso, short torso, wide shoulders, narrower shoulders, short, femurs, long, femurs how this applies, and you know, Archimedes said years ago, he said, Give me the right lever and I can move the world. So the question then comes up, well, what if you don't have the right lever? And then athletically, we train a lot of athletes like you guys. And you know, you want to prevent injuries. So we had a linebacker come to us and he never could quite squat. This is back in the 90s, late 90s. We bio lever we had a long torso, long femur and just immediately you could see the the levers were not there that he could do a good squat that that stress left the muscles of the lower back, went to the lower back joints. And he started to have some real issues. So we bio levered him, we changed some stuff and and so 25 years later, a couple of 100 Well, 25,000 profiles later, we've got a lot of information about how to break down an individual an athlete so that they can maximize their performance and minimize their injuries. That's kind of how it all started.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 5:32

So well, I'll jump in. And as you know, there were some things that I read up that I was curious about you, if you could describe what strunk's structural strength zones are, and how did you determine that? Very good.

Unknown: 5:52

Okay, so everybody is measured from the central point, which is the sternal notch. And we're going to take 10 measurements, we're going to measure the length of the clavicle, from the sternal locks the height of the clavicle, the depth of the clavicle, we're going to then measure the elbow, ankle and elbow radius, your upper arm, lower arm, torso length, femur, and tibia, we sweep the lever arm and the resistant arm through their diameters. And we determined a point in space mathematic mathematically, where they intersect where the where the energy leaves the muscle and goes to joint causing cumulative micro trauma. And everybody is different. I've got a little chart here, this is a you probably can't see it, but it's a chart of my wife. And you'll see a green zone and a red zone, Vikings Zipit a little bit, the red zone shows the energy now in joint tissue, the Green Zone shows energy and muscle tissue. And that is different for everybody. Every one of us are different. And I said, Terry, a little clip of Michael Phelps, although I've never measured him, if you break him down, you can see he's got a tremendously high clavicle angle. He's got a very deep clavicle angle. So we know automatically that he's very advantaged in shoulder movements. Then he's got a long torso, which tells us that he's got great rotational power, long femur, short tibia. So he's got tremendous ability and kicking, he was literally designed to swim. So that's kind of how we do that Dave, Spencer, excuse me, Dr. Spencer,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 7:39

when when you get a chance, we would love to have an image a clean image of that. So we could pop that on the screen while you're talking for the ones that are viewing on YouTube. Okay. So now, the green zones at well, how did you determine based on, you know, leverage? When does when does the muscle have the most influence over the range of motion versus the joint? Like, where did that? Where does that I mean, it sounds like physics, but I wouldn't know how is that determined? per person?

Unknown: 8:15

Daniel? Yeah, that's, that's the chairman dishonor anatomy. For instance, if somebody has a very shallow clavicle angle, they're not advantaged, to bring the bar all the way down to the chest. So like Dr. Chris said, we're all built differently. And that's why a lot of the exercises that athletes do are actually causing them more problems than it is actually helping them. And so that's why we can take this information and make adjustments to the training protocol to help them so they're not traumatized in the weight room, versus being traumatized in the field. A lot of athletes try to do what the coach is asked. And inevitably, so many suffered. So some cumulative micro trauma, especially to the low back is probably number one, shoulders number two, knee is number three, in our experience, but so you're going to measure the length of the humerus, which means you have landmarks yet, you have to identify. So we're going to identify about 10 landmarks of the body which tells you got to know your anatomy. And so sweeping their lever arm in the resistant arm mathematically on a graph form shows us the spins or how you would be advantaged in movement. Okay.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 9:49

So, so I bet the functional movement screening approach makes you cringe because it's so

Unknown: 9:57

pretty Jumeirah

Dr. Spencer Baron: 9:57

FMS

Unknown: 9:59

was that was pretty generic.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 10:01

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Because this is what you're talking about a very specific,

Unknown: 10:07

a perfect example. Spencer is we had an All American quarterback in in Northern California that had back surgery. And we measured him and his squat that literally was like seven inches. And they were making him go down to parallel, which is 1516 inches. And so we did the analysis, we wrote a letter and say, Listen, based on this athletes profile, he cannot squat to where you want him to squat. So they allowed the change. And he went on to have a phenomenal season instead of another back surgery. Yeah. So this is this is very powerful learning to train your frame. Okay. And my greatest injuries were in high school. We have a great college, high school coach. We'll call him Coach Tony. They tell that story 20 Yeah. Yeah, my my, my all star football coach in high school was a very well built gentleman, he played college football. And he had heard that we had this piece of equipment, because he had one of his shoulders replaced. So we measured him and he literally was 19 degrees to full extension, which means he had to stop 10 inches off his chest. In the benchpress. He had a very low clavicle angle. So as soon as his elbow went above that angle, put stress on his shoulder. And we, we I went and trained him in the gym and completely changed how he trained because he wanted to save his other shoulder. Yeah. So this is this is amazing information. It's not that an athlete can't train it a particular way. It's what's the cost, reward ratio? Right. And again, in the prevention aspect, you want to have these kids healthy later in life 40 5060 And avoid these problems. I'm 62. Dave's a little older 64 You know, no shoulder surgery, no back no knee, and yet so many people break down over time and they end up having a shoulder issue or a back issue.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 12:23

I question. Actually, two part you got, you got the kids you hear in college, especially the recruiters are all they recruiting more on genetics now than they are on how good you are in high school. Because if you, you can be the best outside hitter in volleyball. But if you're only five, eight, you're you're pretty much done. Do you ever have kids that you measure and they really want to go in this sport and you're looking at their measurements going? You're never going to be really good in that sport I've ever thought this sport would be a different option. Or do you ever see recruiters down the road looking at this type of information to recruit?

Unknown: 13:06

Well, great question. It's a great question. Mike Boyle, who was a renowned strength coach, you know, he's he's mentioned it Randy Huntington. Currently is the head track and field coach for China. Randy has had 45 years he's a master jump coach. Anyway, we've had couple of lunches and Randy feels like this should be part of every coach's analysis. Every coach strength coach conditioning coach after you. You get a set of eyeballs and an understanding that you didn't have before Carrie, that's a great question. I had a baseball pitcher. He had a lot of potential. Coach wanted him to throw overhand. He had a two degree clavicle angle. He's going to have a three quarter release out here. This not good for him. Impingement issues. This he felt really good. generated some more miles per hour. So yeah, those are that's a profound question. And with our kids every time so when you start measuring an athlete is when they start growing, let's say at about age 12 Each growth spurt you reevaluate okay? Because their levers change once you're down growing, don't have to really have another measurement. So if you're an adult, it's one time only if your child a growth spurt. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna follow up a perfect example. Dr. Terry is Dr. Chris was a phenomenal college baseball player, but they had him in the wrong position. He had a long femur, short tibia, and they had him catching that was the worst position for his genetics. He could be he should have been a second baseman or third baseman and you know, no telling and how we would have ended up but yes, we can use the information we get say listen, you're not, you're not suited for this position, you're much more suited for that position. We had a defensive back who had a short femur, long tibia, he played a corner. So these guys can't backpedal. Well. So what does he do? He naturally wants to turn his hip and be a sprinter. Because your spinners have short, femurs long tibias. So how you would attack that individual and fat Gerald and David, were asked to do an analysis of a professional hockey team. They buy a levertijd every athlete on this professional team, never having watched him play hockey before. And they can absolutely tell the coach, which player played which position based on their anatomy and the structure. And they were forced to sign a waiver saying, Please don't disclose this information, because we would know how to attack this team based on that. So great question. Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 16:03

You should have been around when I was younger, because you know, I had the brain that said, I can try anything in Dubai. He said, Fuck you. And so I would, I try to do flips, and I would come out halfway through and smash my body. So it's probably just because I was genetically cannot do a flip. So yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. We're all

Dr. Spencer Baron: 16:27

you know, interesting. There's apparently some merit to this or a lot of merit to this. Because, remember, Coach Parcells would look at players in their positions. And he would say, oh, yeah, he's going to be a good, you know, halfback or running back short arms, you know, short neck and he would go through their dimensions. And I would think, wow, that's interesting how he already in his head instinctively profiled patients, Annette, patients, players anatomy based on their position in football. So

Unknown: 17:07

not respect Spencer, they hadn't. That's a great point. They've been doing this for quite some time. But there never has been a system in which you can reproduce with accuracy, these angles and these measurements, and then apply that to rehab, to performance, to prevention, and just daily lifestyle. Here's a perfect example. Dr. Spencer, Dr. Chris and I, back in the early 90s, we we evaluated eight BYU football players that were headed for the NFL Combine. Now they were six months after their season, right. So they should have been healthy. We went through their muscle testing of upper and lower extremities, they average five muscle weaknesses in their lower extremities and seven in their upper, none of these players ended up getting drafted. My point is, why was their body so beat beaten down? It's because they were doing the training, by the strength coaches, you know, the benchpress, the squats and all these exercises that a lot of them were not advantaged to do. And consequently, their bodies were still beat up when they went into the NFL Combine. So by making a little bit of changes here and there, it could have drastically changed that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 18:29

I have a hypothetical. Or really, it's a real clinical case that I have a question that when you're measuring length of bones, and you know their angles. And I'm wondering, there are some athletes, especially when the FMS thing was a hot item for for strength and conditioning coaches, because it gave them a recipe. And they thought that recipe applied to everybody. So you know, it made it a no brainer thing. But they took one of the players and they said, no, no, you need to be squatting like this. Now his feet would be positioned that you're looking at the bottom of feet, let's say, and his feet would be positioned like this. Now, would that be something that you had to be able to identify as to why that was comfortable for him, but they made him do this. And he ended up with hip injury. Proc Well, having

Unknown: 19:30

been an assistant strength coach for a couple of years, and then I was on the board for three years for the CSEA. I think in general, a good squat position is feet shoulder width apart, toes slightly, externally rotated five to 10 degrees, allowing for that hip sink that hip motion toes forward, really is not a natural position for that squat procedure. Some say well, you can emphasize the quads more by doing that out? You know, I don't know that we know that very few people have the mechanical leverage to do a squat below 90.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:09

Well, you don't actually what ended up happening with that particular athlete, and I think happens a little more often than we think is, there's such a phenomenon that I mean, like you guys said, you know, we're not the same from one side to the other. I mean, they were very asymmetrical, but we think we're symmetrical. He had retroversion, of the femoral neck in the into the acid tabular, so you know, his his retroversion. And so that's why his is he had to angle his foot out to one side, and then the other hip was, like normal. Or the would that be something that the BI lever system could identify as?

Unknown: 21:00

Taking an x ray, looking at the hip socket, the joint, the angles, via leverage is going to measure that femur length to be a late torso length, skin to we in a movement, you want balance, so it's really going to determine a structural balance, range of motion for everybody. And functionally, it will determine our squat depth, and how far the athlete can bend forward before they get an energy transfer into the lumbo sacral. joint. So we're looking at squat depth, and torso deflection, we call it a torso deflection, but it's flexion of the torso, forward, right. And sometimes you see people squatting and they're, they're doing a back squat, their torso was completely like this. And from a chiropractic point of view, you know, when that happens, the nucleus is going to be thrown back. So really controlling that angle and squat that based on your frame, is I we find it invaluable.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 22:03

So you mentioned, and I was really ready to toss the question out about deflection range, and what that actually what do you mean by that? And how does that apply to let's say a squat? Okay.

Unknown: 22:19

So in measuring the torso and the femur, that's going to give you a, a range as to your ability of the torso to bend forward, backward, laterally bend, right, left and rotate right and left. Okay? So rotational athletes typically are very advantage in a torso deflection range, which means they have great power. All right, baseball, tennis golf, guys. We've had some professional golfers having lower back injuries. In their analysis of these guys, they were bending too far forward, and an 18 holes, a guy's hitting right to left 450 times. So what did we do? We lengthen their club, run them to an upright position, took the stress off the low back. Okay. And, and there are some guys who will, I'd say maybe 25%, who are disadvantaged in that flexion movement. Which means if you're under 30 degrees, you're really not Advan is in that particular movement. So in baseball, these are the guys that naturally hit balls to right, right field right center, they're not going to be a pole hitter. Pole hitters have tremendous rotational, they got good ratios, and they're going to be very quick in that movement of rotation. Fascinating, so how we would train those athletes, Dr. Spencer, we would have them go through a nice full motion, if they're going to use the squat. With 50% less of their one RM they can go through a full range of motion but as soon as they start loading that with higher than 50% We stay in their advantage range of motion. So they get the neurological pattern and movement of a full range of motion. But say their squat depth is nine inches we'll keep them in that nine inch range when they're doing heavier loads and we might shift in my head a college linebacker just recently that his dad called me up and he said never been able to squat since high school six to six three athlete phenomenal right? Always has back pain when squatting. So I by levered a long torso long femur not advantage in squat depth and squatting in general. So why did I do? Your squat depth was about 11 inches I put him on a belt squat. So we put the resistance on the hip took the back out of the equation Boom, had a phenomenal year. And more importantly, did not irritate the back.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:08

Question, then how is it, maybe you can explain it, I don't know, sometimes we'll, we'll put a patient with a two by four under their heels. And suddenly they have no pain and they can squat better what's happening there, you're giving their

Unknown: 25:25

tibia two inches longer length, you're lengthening the tibia. You're creating either an even segment or a short long, so you're just giving them a two inch longer tibia, you're changing that lever. That's why people do it. And they love it. Put a little plate underneath gosh, I can sit down, I feel better. My torso is better. That's exactly you're lengthening the tibia.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:56

explained, like 40 years worth of curiosity as to why that helps us some people on well, not others.

Unknown: 26:04

That's when we got bio levered back in 9697. Listen, David had a great understanding of anatomy functional anatomy. I did. I was, you know, we both exercise science guys, and I was a strength coach at the college assistant for a couple of years. We thought we knew a little bit. And when we got bipolarity, it ruined our paradigm. I mean, it's like what? And but it explained a lot of things. Yeah. And we started to make these changes. And the slight. It was it was like light bulbs went on and performance improves. So that was that was really a great, great event back back when that happened.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:46

What about what about somebody who's been playing at a pro level for 12 or 13 years? And you're going to, you're going to buy a lever them or measure? Let's take a picture. For example, we just recently rehabbed one with how how would you determine why all of a sudden, you know, maybe they would have a forearm injury? If they were closer and it's like near the end of the of the you're midway in that inning, and they're having, like a continuous pain in the form? Where would you I know, this is, you know, arbitrary, but where would you look? How would you determine? Because and they've been playing ball for, I mean, professionally for 30 level? Yeah. Well, here's,

Unknown: 27:47

you know, obviously, being in the chiropractic profession, you have to make sure, neurologically There's sound, right, cervical, thoracic, check the extremities, all the shoulder stuff, the elbow, the wrist, look at the lower extremities as well, because throwing is a lot lower body, if not all. And then he had to look at his training injuries, see what's gone on with him scar tissue fibrosis of repair, make sure you're addressing that. And then from a training aspect by lever him, you might change the release point, even though he's been doing it for a long time. Yeah, stride length. You know, there's, there's a couple of things that you might look at there. I had a professional NFL football player, named Jason, all American in college, played seven years in the NFL couple of Super Bowl rings. We buy LeBron to him and he said this I would have paid a million dollars to have had this information prior to all of this because he literally broke his body down, not on the field in the weight room in the weight room. Broke his body down in the weight room, shoulder knee back, and he just said wow, wow, what what this could have done for him

Dr. Spencer Baron: 29:18

she's, well, yeah, no, no better time than now. She's alright, so by the way, you nailed it by what you said when you said look at the lower extremities because the pain here Yeah, we pulled up video watching him on the mound and the most recent in the last year games. And I was telling me my associate doctor, I go, You know what? Check his ankle range of motion and his toe strength because, you know, everything's coming from there and yeah, So you're absolutely right. Check lower extremities. And by the way he was getting treated throughout that season for that, wow. And I thought, man, so they kind of gave you the answer, you know, look somewhere else. It's obviously that's the weak leg curl, but it's coming from somewhere else. It's pretty cool. So now, okay, so we talked about deflection range. And that was interesting that that, would you call that that? When you're referring to the green zone? And the red zone? Is, is that applicable? Where the deflection range? Once again, yeah, the advantage

Unknown: 30:38

and disadvantage range structural strength zones, mechanical zones of leverage, there's different terms you can use, but you want to stay in the green and avoid the red.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 30:50

Yeah. Okay. So now, would you tell somebody that wants to squat that you know that they have would you say long torso, long tibia, and femur, femur, excuse me? Would you urge them to squat only in a, like a, like a quarter squat? Or, you know, half squat, as we call it? Or, you know, in there in that that green zone? Is that what

Unknown: 31:22

question they will take this, Dr. Spencer, this is what I'd say if he's not an athlete, if he's not a strong manner, competitive power lifter, I wouldn't have squat because we know that 90% of the population cannot squat to parallel, and stay in their advantage range of motion. So that's number one. If he is a college athlete or pro athlete, he has a squat, you have a warm up, he can go through a nice range of motion on his warmup. But as soon as he starts adding any type of load, then he has to stay in his advantage range of motion. Otherwise, he's going to cause micro trauma, subluxation more micro trauma, and then that joint is ready to fulfill your, so we want him to stay in that advantage range. And to add to that my young son, Joseph, who's 70. Now when he was 13, I started to introduce the squat movement, right? You introduce movement patterning, before you do load. So I analyze Joseph by by levered him, we looked at his ability to squat, he could front squat better than he could back squat. Okay, so what I did with Joseph, he can stay in his structural mechanical strength zone in a front squat, but he could not have a back squat. So I elevated the bench, we haven't come down to a bench as a touch point. And we front squatted for a while. And then to get the back part of the squat, I did a goblet squat. So we held a kettlebell dumbbell here, taking that back flexion out of the equation, so he can get that we maintain the 1011 and squat depth. So you could both you can hit the muscle groups involved, I just don't want to cause some trauma to a young spine, especially with a compressive load.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 33:20

So I more than excited to hear this. And these modifications, and what we've typically thought, you know, everybody has to go full range with everything. Because many years ago, there was a concept in training called Power Factor training. Not sure if you ever heard of it, but there's a book on it. And it is it was, it was popular, but and I still do it to this day, and it is basically doing a training in your strongest range. Now that sounds very generic, but everybody knows where they're, you know, where their strongest range is. And it could be from here to here instead of from here to here with, you know, bench or squat. And I'll tell you, the whole concept is to go a little bit heavier with with weight and you completely avoid injury by compromising, you know, a joint and bringing it full through its full range when, you know, with that everybody has a buyer lever system. So, you know, looking at how, you know, to apply principles of training in that in that range that you guys approve of, depending on your your analysis. What about what would someone do though, if they can get I mean, I gotta tell you, I've never heard of the bio lever system. So how would somebody that, you know, evaluate themselves or how would a chiropractor help or or a physical therapist or some by if they don't have that system? Yeah.

Unknown: 35:03

Well, I would just say a lot of guys in the process of trial and error over time, do figure some things out. Right? Unfortunately, there might be some injuries involved. But you can, for example, with a benchpress, in the 1000s of profiles that we've done, literally 10% of people can literally bring a bar down to their chest, most of us cannot. Okay. And you could start by looking at the depth of the clavicle. Just go to the sternal notch, find the ac joint. And then follow the clavicle back. There's a little point on the clavicle called the Delta spectrum triangle. It's where the clavicle goes deep to horizontal. And you can literally the humerus will rotate to the angle of the clavicle. So the deeper the clavicle, the further his arm, the further my arm can go back. Typically, the larger the PEC, and these guys are typically advantaged in that movements are naturally strong bench presser. I'm working with collegiate athletes every week 15 to 25. I had a guy come in the other day. I just looked at his depth angle. I said, man, you're a heavy bench Archer. He goes out you know. I had a, I had a lady come in. She was a swimmer. I just looked at her cloud. I'd never seen it before. I figured well, I had about 20 athletes around me. I said let's see if I can guess her stroke. I got a 25% chance and maybe guessing something right. But I just looked at her clavicle angle, which is the clavicle to the ac joint, the sternal or the sternal notch to the ac joint that on that angle. She was very low. I said your breaststroker she going How did you know that? I says because freestyle and butterfly and backscatter have a high angle to do that. Otherwise, you're going to have impeachment and impeachment is the number one injury for shoulders. Right numbers for swimmers, for swimmers is the number one injury. So you can start to just look at anatomy and get a ruler and protractor. Gerald Riley literally was the Arthur Jones of this Gerald and David started this probably in the late 70s. He was an athletic trainer, brother was an engineer. And they started this system of analyzing these people. We got certified from them. But he's like an Arthur Jones. I said Gerald, he, he broke down an athlete that was just amazing. And we've over the 30 years learned from Gerald and David, but just start looking at people's anatomy.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 38:04

All right, I gotta jump in on this one, showing the clavicle, you've got the stick of fractured clavicle. So now they break it and, and now changes that angle. And then they get if they don't get surgery it's gonna have when they go, if they do get surgery, put that plate in there. And now it just totally changes all the range of motion, but it doesn't affect the other side. When adaptions do you make on that on those two scenarios?

Unknown: 38:33

Good question. It's a great question. So, clavicle, if you break mid, it's really not going to affect the ac joint. It'll affect a lump here, calcium, you know, callus all that here, really not going to affect that angle. You could look at the other angle as well. Were pretty symmetrical. We had we do have some asymmetries, okay. But it's really not going to change overall the angle from the sternal notch to the ac joint. It might change the depth thing of a little bit, but I will look at the other side as well.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 39:13

It's a great question. It will change the way the clavicle rotates. So when you do bring that arm back, that clavicle has to rotate, it will change that. So how do you make the adaptions to that, because now you're locking in that clavicle, and you're locking in either by the fracture healing or you're locking in by a piece of metal. So you have to change the ankles that they bench or change because it's not routine to keep up with the humerus anymore.

Unknown: 39:42

It's great question, injuries, change everything. And then at that point, you have to adapt and really get a lot of feedback from the athlete as to what feels good, and we're apt to actually see him in the movement. So we could we could look at him go ahead and do a bench and we could see what's doing here. What happening here and then we can make an adjustment.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 40:03

So you can choose the route now which so like within the entry, you're going to adapt to the weakest point and then but you can use that lever system, it probably helps quite a bit. Determining that pre and post. Yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:15

yeah. Generate ring have huge. How do you guys determine what actually is a long femur? Like, what are long or long tibia? Like? What is it? What is it compared to the other body parts or is there a standard?

Unknown: 40:37

So you're measuring the femur to the tibia. You're looking at the ratio, the length of the femur to the tibia. David has an even segment length. He's a two foot jumper. It was a great catcher. Squatting did not bother him. Tremendous length drive. Even segment guys have different mechanical leverage than a guy I'm long short. I'm a long femur short guy. Okay, so I could backpedal well changing direction very well. I wasn't necessarily Usain Bolt, who's got a short femur? Long tibia. I was quick, not fast. Okay, but we are measuring you're looking at the femur relative to the tibia. So it's per individual per individual.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 41:26

I see it is there. Are you applying a ratio if it comes really close? So you're looking at? Well, the femur measures this length and the tibia measures this length and then

Unknown: 41:39

that's a good question. I think. If they're within a quarter of an inch, they call it pretty much even Yeah. Yeah, I think half inch longer than what we found over the years. Then we would say that individual has a little longer femur, a little shorter tibia, and they might have some crossovers as well. I have an athlete who's a good foot one foot jumper and two foot jumpers your high your high jumpers typically have a long femur short tibia. Okay, so they're going to transfer that horizontal force to vertical and then the long jumpers are just the opposite short long the call the call Lewis's the sprinters Yeah, okay. Your Muay Thai kickers Marco and Pedro Oh, short, long, short, long,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:33

short femur long tip Correct.

Unknown: 42:36

baseball pitchers with great velocity long short, like a whip over a three inch different think of a whip long humerus, shorter lower arm and that whipping action again, hold on hold on Go ahead. No, no no, I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:54

was gonna say three inch difference you mean three inch

Unknown: 43:00

long longer humors

Dr. Terry Weyman: 43:04

than so what sports with a short femur long tibia? What sports were those people but with those combo XL and what sports flipping that would accelerate it

Unknown: 43:20

your great great question and I'll just said we're not talking about fiber typing right read which again Robert just looking at leverage but our 25 years and doing this typically your guys would short long you're going to have some speed you're going to be sprinters track you're going to be probably a striker on the football on the soccer pitch. Okay. And long short will be cyclists guys that are quick feet infielders change a direction that's cool. That is very cool. What

Dr. Terry Weyman: 44:01

about Spencer? That's short short

Unknown: 44:07

we've seen Spencer Spencer is very well developed and put together so whatever he's doing to keep

Dr. Spencer Baron: 44:15

I think they refer to that as midget Yeah,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 44:17

but you're mining mouse you're a stocky midget

Unknown: 44:22

I will bring up this this is a fascinating study. Guys with low clavicles typically have a a very wide triangle trapezius base. And these guys take more concussive blows better than a guy's with the high clavicle angle. Look at a quarterback for example, quarterbacks typically have a higher angle for overhead flowing, but their track base is narrower. They have higher percentages of concussions. Okay, so yeah, got it.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 44:59

Hey, That's fantastic. Is it because of neck strength or muscle? Explain why you see that, or what?

Unknown: 45:09

Well, it again, I wish I had some pictures to show you. But if you look at an athlete with a zero degree angle, maybe two or three degree, a Mike Tyson has a very low club like clavicle angle, he's got a tremendous neck development, it's easier for him to develop that neck, head strength, neck strength trap upper back strength, and therefore his concussive blows are going to be handled much better with that structure than a guy with the high clavicle angle.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:41

That is cool. Yeah,

Unknown: 45:42

that's what we've found over the years. Brilliant. Really

Dr. Spencer Baron: 45:46

fantastic. Well, I did not expect that. But that makes a lot more that makes a lot of sense, because they would, you know, concussion became the, the, the epidemic. There was discussion later on about for every increase in in pound increase in strength of the neck is a, like a 5% reduction in potential for concussion. And it's, I mean, but that that was after, you know, years right after the big problem, but many people would have known about this clavicle angle seems to have such an impact on in so many different areas,

Unknown: 46:29

guys, yes, it really does. Washing and pulling, guys with these low clavicle angles are going to be very advantage and pulling weight from the ground. So you're dead lifters, guys who can clean things like that your overhead lifting guys is going to be different. Everybody's got these different mechanical, structural points. And, and the fun thing is to help people learn these, implement them and watch what happens.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:00

And if any particular resources or networks or communities that you guys suggest for, especially for some of our listeners, that are healthcare professionals to connect with others that are practicing this way.

Unknown: 47:17

Yeah, there's that's a great question. We have some resources. If you there's a third edition of a strength anatomy book, I forget the author, but he's got he's got some pictures in there about training based on your morphology. So there's more and more literature coming out. Again, they don't have a system to to accurately reproduce these things. But that's a book that you can look at strength, strength, anatomy, strength training, anatomy. I know Mike Boyle has talked over the years about long femur and how guys with long femur can't squat. I had a gentleman Aaron Wellman called me up. He was a strength coach for New York Giants. We had a great discussion about the Bible, every training system and, and, and he had a very incredible analysis that he is doing for his athletes. But we had a good discussion. And this is a unique type, we really haven't brought this to the forefront yet. Dave and I are looking, we have an invitation to speak at some conventions. And we're going to start doing that we have access to Gerald and David Riley, there's maybe a handful of guys that really has run with this over the past 25 years. We were fortunate to be two of those guys.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:42

Yeah, I am surprised to haven't heard more about it. Because it seems very, very viable. And it's been around for a while, obviously. Yeah. So, gentlemen, we are entering this phase that we refer to rapid fire questions that require rapid fire answers. Either one of you could answer. There's five questions and or both of you could answer. And it some of it has nothing to do with what we talked about. But it makes it a little more fun and real. Sounds good. Ready? Yeah. Okay, question. Question number one, if you could only recommend one unconventional health tip to your patients. What the heck would

Unknown: 49:28

it be and why? Learn to breathe properly? breathe properly, so they have to learn how to do that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:38

It's great. We've had we've had a couple of guests on that are experts in breath work. It's pretty fascinating. Very good. Very good. Number two, what is the weirdest question a patient has ever asked you guys and how did you respond? Wow.

Unknown: 49:59

You You know? Are you breaking a bone? When you hear the noise? Oh, yeah, right. And you explained that that's not the case. And we're gapping the joint and synovial gases leaving and so I III get that a lot wrong misconception about the adjustment. I had a patient say Hey, Dr. Beatty, you look like you can rip my head off. I said that's only happened twice. They were worried. Awesome, good

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:31

answer. Question number two, three, excuse me. Question number three, if you had to swap roles with another healthcare professional for a day, just for a day, which profession would you choose? And why?

Unknown: 50:46

swap roles with another health profession? Well, I would love to swap and I have their ability a neurosurgeon. I think that would be incredible. Because the nervous system is the key to everything. And I would probably say a cardiologist, a cardiovascular surgeon. Looking at the heart. That muscle that never stops.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:13

That's a cool, fascinating. Yeah, very good. Very good. Question number four. What is your go to self care practice? Or maybe guilty pleasure when you need to unwind after a hectic day at work? I

Unknown: 51:31

get a I get a monster and go to the mountain.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:38

Oh, really? Yeah.

Unknown: 51:40

I've got 150 pound dog called a horrible he's his name is Leo Knight is Oh, Mike. And I have a horrible and I take this guy in my backyard. We we make a fire. We just look at each other for about 30 minutes and we unwind.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:54

I suppose that is the most phenomenal animal that I've ever seen in real life. Yeah, because they're meant to kill lions. Well, they were

Unknown: 52:04

trained to defend farms, lions, hyenas and baboons. These

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:12

I treated a bunch of athletes on a recovery night at one of their homes. And there was something pounding on the other side of a bedroom door. And I go What the hell is that? The player the other players go, man, you don't want to know. Well, now I really want to know. He opened the door and this. It's the biggest. It didn't even look like a dog. It's the biggest dog I've ever seen in my entire life. Terry, you gotta pull it

Dr. Terry Weyman: 52:38

up what we got? She got says a patient of dogs so we can put it in the YouTube video. Yeah,

Unknown: 52:44

I will. I have to wobble and David has to presa Canarios and their tiger stripes. So they're crazy as well.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 52:51

I was waiting for you to say to David Peters save you have the big ass dog. No, he's got to I have one. Yeah, I know that. I've had to look this dog up now. Because is that one of those big monster like?

Unknown: 53:07

They're both masculine breeds. His the Canary Islands and mines from South Africa. Yeah, he's gotten a reputation with the NFL player. So a lot of players in the NFL have the presses.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 53:19

Yeah, yeah. Are you good with other dogs and other people? Or do they you have to hold them back

Unknown: 53:23

as the other dog is not dominant. Otherwise, they'll probably kill it. Were mine the horrible his his nature is. I mean, if there's somebody there and he's been trained, he'll, he'll get after it. But his nature is really really gentle and kind and but he's gonna allow you to come into his house.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 53:44

Got it. You have to actually introduce people to the dog when they come into the

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:47

house. Yeah. The player that own this dog was like a three 300 or 275 pound offensive lineman and he had to give up the dog because he didn't. He couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle the dog. But again, if I didn't train it well, like Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that. I got a thrill from that one for question number five. And the last one. Would you rather have the ability to instantly heal any physical injury on this but never be able to diagnose the cause? Or have an unmatched diagnosis skill but no ability to heal all the way heal?

Unknown: 54:33

That movie cocoon where we could jump into a pool of water, it'd be 25. Again, I mean, the effects of aging has its toll and, and health is is our greatest asset, is it not? Yeah.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 54:49

You know, it's funny, I asked that question to people in different health care. Professions without naming and more on the The pharmaceutical side, and their answers were switched. They read, they rather be able to diagnose. So it's it's interesting that the chiropractor that even some of the therapists they wanted, they didn't care about the diagnosis. They just wanted to heal. So it was interesting.

Unknown: 55:16

Yeah, the body is meant to heal. Where

Dr. Terry Weyman: 55:18

do you see this irritation going? I mean, yes, it's a big machine. Do you see with technology nowadays that it can get to the point where you can have an app on your cell phone and just scan the person and have all the information there?

Unknown: 55:33

That's a great question. I think we're headed toward that. Dr. Terry, I don't know what it's going to take. But I think in the future, if you can have an app on your computer, you know, that could that could do some scanning this, this could be incredible. Yeah, it's really unlimited. Because the four categories are performance, rehab, prevention, and just lifestyle. But guy's got a low clavicle angle, I'm going to not have him painting up here. I'm gonna move a ladder up high. So he's painting in front, right?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:11

Little things like that. But isn't there a way that they could take the shirt off, you could take with cell phones and cameras now that you could take a picture? And you can draw those lines in me? It doesn't seem like you've gotten

Unknown: 56:22

really good over the years just by looking at people, you know. So we'll have to talk to Jeremy David about it. But certainly, it's moving in that direction. Awesome.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:34

I mean, how advantage would that be just looking at stuff from both a prevention to preseason season and postseason training? That's pretty awesome. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:46

Big, big. Love it. All right. Well, gentlemen, that was really fantastic. I absolutely appreciate you imparting that knowledge base that I have completely been unfamiliar with, and how effective it is in the identification of potential injuries and in rehabilitation. Thank you so much. Our

Unknown: 57:09

pleasure. Thank luxury doctor. Dr. Spencer, thanks.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:13

Oh, it's always nice show enough brains and then their friends so we not only do I appreciate your friendship, I appreciate it now. So thank you guys.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:23

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.