Farm to Table, Regenerative Farming: hear the truth, simple as it sounds?

Join us on the latest episode of the Crackin' Backs Podcast where we sit down with DeAnna Lozensky, a pioneering regenerative farmer from Guardian Grains.
 
In this enlightening discussion, DeAnna unveils the complexities and challenges of modern farming under the weight of government bureaucracy and escalating regulations. How do these issues affect a farmer's ability to sustain a livelihood?
We dive into this pressing topic and more.

We also demystify the popular "farm to table" concept—what does it truly take to deliver fresh, local produce directly to consumers? DeAnna breaks down the real hurdles farmers face in keeping food local and sustainable

The terms "organic" and "certified organic" are everywhere, but what do they actually mean? DeAnna clarifies the distinctions and the sometimes misleading use of these labels in today's agriculture. Plus, with "regenerative farming" gaining buzz, we discuss its true impact beyond the hype. Is it just a trend, or the future of farming?

Finally, we tackle a growing concern: the acquisition of U.S. farmland by billionaires and foreign investors. DeAnna shares her insights on the long-term implications of this trend for farmers and consumers alike. What should you know as a shopper who wants to support sustainable, locally-sourced food?

Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of these critical issues facing the agriculture sector today. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of food, sustainable farming practices, and how consumers can make informed choices. 

For more information on how to purchase her products click here.

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Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

Welcome to the cracking backs Podcast. Today we're growing our knowledge in the world of sustainable agriculture with our guest, Deanna Lozinski. From Guardian grains. were peeling back the layers of bureaucracy that make farming a challenge and discussing regulations that are needed, making it harder for farmers to thrive. From farm to table to organic versus certified organic. We'll explore what these terms really mean and how they impact what ends up on your plate. Plus, we'll tackle the buzz around regenerative farming, separating fact from fiction and with a farmland increasingly under the control of billionaires and foreign entities. Deana shares her insights on the future of farming and how we as consumers can make informed choices. Stay tuned as we unravel these complex topics right here on the crackenback podcast. Deanna, I, you have no idea how often I talk about you to my patients and friends because you revolutionize the way I eat. Pasta. Thanks to you. And we welcome you back. You're our favorite regenerative farmer. And I often refer to you as Dr. Dr. Farmer.

Deanna Lozensky: 1:25

Oh my gosh, that's pretty, that's a pretty tall pedestal to be on. So

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:30

well, after that last show, you just, you just provided so much super information and I can't wait to jump in. So if we can do a little quick recap about what you do and how great you do it. Please share that with the audience. And we'll jump into some questions.

Deanna Lozensky: 1:46

Okay, um, so we farm in central North Dakota. And we are a small grain farm growing heritage wheat varieties heritage, barley, spelt, and some peas and flax and all of the other things in a regenerative system. So we're not using any tillage, no fertilizer, no insecticide, no fungicide, and no pre harvest desiccant. So I didn't mention that we don't use a herbicide. And sometimes we do. So that is still here in our system on a limited basis. And we are passionate about bringing our grains to direct to consumers and to restaurants and local bakeries and people that really have an affinity for feeding people better. And so that's what we're doing now. We're farming and actually getting to see where our food that we grow ends up which is really been rewarding for us as farmers.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 2:55

One of the more fascinating things was that, you know, I'm gluten free and haven't had pasta and even even the gluten or the pasta that says gluten free that I get in the store here. It really doesn't work well for me. And yet I can have your pasta and I could you just explain what the heck you do that makes that work like that.

Deanna Lozensky: 3:18

Right? Okay, so yeah, here's the key right is less processing, right and better growing conditions, right, this is what we're focused on. So the pasta that you're talking about is made from a French heritage wheat variety called Rouge de Bardot. And we grow that here on our farm in North Dakota. And we harvest it, we clean and clean all the grain here on farm and then we stone mill it into flour, that is a full nutrition flour, right, so you're getting all of the brand all of the germ all of the nutrition from the whole grain into a stone milled flour, and then we add water and we produce pasta through like a bronze die. So it's kind of got a rough texture. That's the artisan part of it, it leaves a sort of a rough texture on the pasta and then helps it hold more sauce. So very minimal processing, right. We're going from the field to the stone mill, adding water and producing pasta that is shelf stable for you. And and that you can enjoy even if you're gluten free, right? We're talking about gluten sensitivities and not celiac, right? But it's a combination of the way we are growing our grains and the process, the minimal processing that's involved in it. And so that is the idea is that you get as close to the farm as you can with your pasta, and that we're not adding any other junk or taking anything away.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 4:57

What's an ancient grain Oh,

Deanna Lozensky: 5:00

Let's well ancient grains. That's a broad spectrum term. But it can range from anything. Lots of different grains. It doesn't have to be wheat, it could be keen Wah, it could be amaranth, it could be. Lots of lots of grains qualify as an ancient grain. So pre, we're looking at more than 1000 years old, right? That's kind of what distinguishes ancient grain from Heritage grains are RWJ Bardot because of the name. Getting the name in the 1800s is considered a heritage wheat variety. It is in fact, the oldest red wheat I could find. And it dates back into the Roman time. So it's much older than the name it's been given. And so the I considered an ancient grain even though the name is more of a heritage, heritage timeframe.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 5:55

All right, we're gonna we're gonna switch a gear a little bit that we didn't do last time. And I've been watching a very popular farming show called diddly squat. And diddly squat Farms is on I believe it's on Amazon and this with Jeremy Clarkson, Jeremy Clarkson got fame with a show called Grand Tour, and where they do cars and all that, and he bought a huge farm in England. And what I most entertained on the show is you have a car guy that turned into a farmer and in the fun he did. But between his books, he's a great writer. And they I've been blown away by the bureaucracy that comes with farming. And it seems it's crazy. Sorry. So it's crazy. How about that? So it's crazy. The government loopholes, and they show that I know, you're giving me that cringy face, but they show the government loopholes. And he's pulling his hair out talking to other farmers. And it seems like the government the government is making it harder and harder, and such as us, for farmers to farm and make a living. And, and to get this food that you just talked about on the plates. Can you talk us about? Can you go into that a little bit about the regulations that people may not realize when they go to the grocery just buy something, and how hard it is to get good food?

Deanna Lozensky: 7:33

Oh, boy, this is this is this is no longer a rabbit hole. This is a wormhole right? Because in regenerative farming, we're focused on soil health and like how many worms you have, right? That's how we measure soil health for Regenerative growers. But so this is an interesting topic. Okay, so in a conventional farming system, which is where we came from, we are and what we're still participating in as far as where we sell a majority of our grain. Okay, so you need to understand that a majority of the grain that we grow, goes to the commodity market, and gets commingled with everybody else's grain. And so even our ruse de Bardot that we grow on 2200 acres here, gets brought to the commodity market and mixed with all of the other hard red spring leads on a majority of the scale, so. So for conventional farming, we are paid by quantity, right, where everything is based on yield. So and this is not by accident. Let's talk about this a little bit. Let's talk about economy 101 supply and demand, farmers want to be the best. And we want to grow the most because we need to feed the world quote unquote, feed the world, right. So farmers will grow the most bushels at all costs. And because of that, we are geared to pushing more fertilizer, more insecticide, more fungicide, more herbicide use to get bigger yields to deliver more bushels to the elevator so we can get paid more. The the bottom side of that is and this is the economy one on one the supply and demand, we grow more grain and they pay us less. It's crazy. It's crazy, we should we could be producing less grain at a better quality and they could pay us more and we we would all be better off because of the nutrient density of those grains would be higher because they're not all hopped up on some synthetic nutrients. Like we want to talk about like it's a synthetic nutrients, nitrogen phosphorus, sulfur, zinc, potassium, those are steroids for your plants, those are not growing natural yields, right that is pushing your soil beyond the carrying capacity that it can manage. So, but the whole conventional model is based on yield not just. And so that's how farmers get paid the most is to produce the most grain, even though that when we flood the market, because we grew so much grain because we're all a bunch of overachievers. And we all want to grow the biggest crop, because that's what we're told is being a quote unquote, good farmer, we actually get paid less, for producing more. And so we are helping other farmers try to land that fact and and understand that, hey, guess what, if you cut the inputs, remove or reduce the fertilizer use, you can save money on your operation, produce a little less, but grow more of a quality grain rather than quantity. And I have all I'm a big proponent for we don't need more of anything, we just need better. And, and I think that we are seeing a shift in farmers specifically that are growing grains that are realizing that, you know, maybe pushing yield isn't the best way to, quote unquote, feed the world when we have 40 to 50% food waste.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:34

We would like to thank Guardian grains for sponsoring the crackenback podcast, these ancient grains are made to keep your gut happy and healthy. Check the description below for a link to their many food products.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 11:49

See, this is where I wanted to go on some of this stuff. Because I know it's the it's the stuff that's not talked about, and I want to get talked about. The other thing is while you're in that in your mood, let's talk about farmland. And you're seeing all these billionaires and all these foreigners coming in buying up our farmland with some, you know, rabbit hole conspiracy thought processes, but what's your thought process on that? And and what's a long term thought where the consumer needs to be aware of when they start shopping?

Deanna Lozensky: 12:24

Right? That's, uh, okay, so let's, let's, let's dig in here. Um, if if the farmer isn't in control of the land. So what I mean is, if we don't own the land that we are farming, we are required to make certain adjustments to make sure that that that ground is producing what we needed to produce on a short term lease agreement. Because a lot of these, a lot of these farms that we are renting are a lease agreement with the landowner who could be anyone, that landowner usually has a short lease agreement one to three years, it is it takes a long time to regenerate a soil system. And a one to three year contract is a very short amount of time to actually make any improvements as far as on a farming scale to like regenerate our systems, right, and to try to wean off some of the inputs and things like that. So when we're when the farmer doesn't own the land, it makes it very hard to make decisions from an ecological perspective, from a systems perspective, from a feeding people better perspective, because we are trapped under a short timeline. And we are under the guise of trying to get as much out of that land while we're able to farm it because the landlord inevitably could decide to rent to your neighbor for $5 more an acre or $10 More an acre, regardless of their farming practices. And so anytime that the farmer is not in control of the land, we have to make sacrifices that we might not make if it was land that we were, you know, buying to own. So and what happens then is we cut corners get cut. And maybe there's an extra herbicide pass, maybe there's an extra tillage pass, or two or three and completely stripping the system of, of all of the native species that we need in the soil to actually feed our gut microbiome. So there's, it's a, it's a whole it's a hard it's a hard system to fit into. And just just to put it into perspective, so in 2013, we were Farming 7500 acres of cropland. And there was my husband and I and his mother and father. So we're working together as a team of four, covering 7500 acres within a 50 mile radius, like 50 Miles five, zero. So we're moving the equipment, all of that. And we're putting on all of the inputs, all of the all of the fertilizer, all of the insecticide, all of the fungicide, all of the inputs. And so we're over the farm over the field seven or eight times on each field, that's, that's a lot of environmental impact that we are playing a role as farmers, right. So. So that's where we were in 2013. Fast forward now to 2024. We are managing to 2800 acres. So far, far less than we were managing. And on that on that 7500 acres, we were 100% owned or rented 100% rented on 7500 acres, we were not making decisions for the future, we were not making decisions on our on our soils for our kids and for their kids, right, we were working year to year just to pay the input suppliers. And so fast forward now to 2800 acres 2200 of those acres, our cropland acres, and the others are native water areas, wildlife habitat, and then annual wildlife habitat that we actually plant for the domestic, the native species to come back. So on that 2800 acres 11 years later, we're 80% owned, that changes things. It changes things when we are owning the land that we are managing, and we start treating it like an ecosystem so that we can grow better food not just for people but for the animals, right, because some of our grain goes to animal feed. And so it's important that we are looking at that from a whole whole perspective. And and you're limited as a farmer, on what we can do when we're not operating or owning the land that we're operating right where you become. You become a serf to that way I'm not profitable.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 17:31

Wow. Wow. So Dr. Deanna? Yeah. Really? You're so fluent in this stuff? I love. I've had a age old question regarding organic versus certified organic, and what does organic really mean and all that. But before you answer that question, it was interesting that you heard the other day a comment that said, we pay more for food to be food. To be food, actually, they were considering organic versus all the processed food that is out there. So whatever, you know, whatever happened to just real food. So anyway, go ahead and get your commentary on organic certified organic.

Deanna Lozensky: 18:20

Right, so we're looking at. So here's the thing. Here's the thing, just because it's organic, or certified organic, doesn't mean it's grown in a healthy soil system. And nutrient density has zero to do with being organic or being conventional or being regenerative. Right. So we're on the spectrum of in between all of the three. Nutrient density has nothing to do with those three things and everything to do with soil health. So when we are talking about nutrient density, we need to be looking at soil health and how that is impacting the food we're eating. We are growing food in degraded soil systems. So if we're growing food in an organic system, and hauling in tons and tons of compost, that's not that's not a functioning system. The reason you have to haul in the compost is because the soil system doesn't function anymore. And you're having to add in all of these quote unquote organic amendments, right. So tell me how sustainable is it to be hauling in tons and tons of compost to fix or bandaid a situation that we can solve if we heal the soil first. So there is a there's a great it's a great area when we're looking at organic, which is a certified USDA term or, or just an organic term which let's say you're not certified but you're Still not using conventionally approved herbicide, because I need to be clear and tell you that just because the term organic is in there does not mean they're not using chemical. It doesn't mean that it organic does not mean chemical free. It means that they're not using the same chemicals that are being used in a conventional model. But here's a spoiler alert, those same chemical companies that are making chemicals for conventional farms are also making chemicals for organic farms. And so they're playing both sides of the fence. They don't care which one you are, they're going to sell you chemical no matter what one is organic, approved, and one is not. So what we're trying to encourage people to look for, is not whether or not that farm uses herbicide, right? Let's not look at that, what let's look at can are those farms that are supplying food to our country, and to the consumers? Are those farms producing food that is chemical free? Right. So and this is this is the task, right? And so what we are passionate about on our farm is testing the outcome, right? We've talked about this before, when I was on on your podcast testing outcomes, we want to make sure that the grains that we're growing, do not have a herbicide residual left in them, because in the end, that's what people care about, right? They want to make sure that as a farmer, we are not poisoning the water, we're not poisoning the food and we're not poisoning the air. And so let's show them that we can do a better job in our farming system. By using no tillage using limited herbicide, we can skip the insecticide we can skip the fungicide because guess what we're farming in a functioning soil system that raises plants that are immune to disease, a disease suppressive system, right let's get that same system in the soil that we're looking for in our whole gut microbiome. But Let's heal the system on a soil from a soil level. And when when that system soil system is functioning, that is there's a huge diverse microbial population there that is actually mitigating the disturbance that we're causing as farmers. So whether the disturbance is with a tillage pass or with a herbicide pass, that microbial community is actually metabolizing the herbicide, breaking it down, keeping it out of the food, keeping it out of the air and keeping our water clean. And that's the goal, right? That is the end goal. Let's test that metrics. Let's 10 test the outcome. And so that's that's kind of a roundabout that I don't ever go in a straight line, right? It's always a squirrely, it's always so squirrely, but there is no it's not clean cut anymore. There is a lot of gray area. So let's let's not talk about well, chemicals bad organics better when we look at an organic soil system that's tilled 3456 times a year, and not that is killing 50% of the microbiome in that soil 50% in each tillage pass, so like ever, your soil system, it can handle minimal disturbance, it can't handle repeat disturbance, it's just like our bodies, right? Little limited amount of stress, a little stress is okay, but repeated and compound stressors, that is not something that they are going to, like bounce back from very easily. And so it's a very gray area. And I have seen I've seen that not organic doesn't mean it's better and it doesn't mean that it's a nutrient dense product that they're growing. And we can we can all do better. Regardless of how we identify, right? Whether we're identifying as conventional farmers or regenerative farmers are organic farmers. There's room for growth on all spectrums to do a better job to produce a better food. Right and what is food we need to simplify these ingredients the stuff that we're getting on shelf is not food, right? We need simple ingredients like we talked about the pasta, that's easy. Stone milling flour, that's an ancient way of milling flour, right? Stone milling water and producing pasta. That's it the minimal processing, there's no heat treating, there's no extra garbage put in there. And you're noticing it because you can eat it right that changes things. The processing is a huge problem. The farming plays a role but the farming the farming plays a role, but the processing systems of what they are calling food is a huge factor.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:00

All right. You love her passion.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 25:03

Oh my god. But don't you have the question? Can she tillage in a straight line? She can't talk to a straight line but can she tillage in a straight line?

Deanna Lozensky: 25:14

There's no till system. I can plant in a straight line. Yes. Right. There's literally a button that I did in my tractor that will take me north. Zero, east and west. Know where there is no tillage Terry doc Sorry.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 25:39

Sorry. Sorry Dr. Deanna. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:43

All right, as a city slicker, I just need to know the most basic answer to this. What's tilt? What is tillage? Why?

Deanna Lozensky: 25:53

Okay, so do you have a garden?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:56

Not in my apartment now?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 25:57

No. Is the city slicker?

Deanna Lozensky: 25:59

Have you have you seen gardens that like soil looks very black? And or very like? Like, uncovered? Yeah, right, Bear. Yeah. And like kind of clumpy and loose? Yes. This is a tillage pass. That's the result of a tillage pass.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:19

Why is that bad?

Deanna Lozensky: 26:21

Well, okay, so your whole microbial network that's in your soil is held together with mycelium, which is a fungi, right? Those are the communication network. That's the communication, right? That's the Wi Fi. That's the phone line. That's everything. And you go through with this tillage like a tiller for the garden or a vertical tillage dude, unit that we use that we pull behind that some farms pull behind a tractor to grow across huge acres. Now think of those big metal discs, going through the soil and ripping things up. This is a disaster to your soil microbiome, right? So not only are you shutting off all the communication, right? Think of this as a hurricane. Right? You'll lose, you lose, you lose communication, right? We lose our they lose their homes, because they live in soil aggregates. And so you're destroying their homes, right, there's their homes are all wiped out. And now they've lost water, because every tillage pass reduces the amount of water that that soil can hold. So it's lost the ability to infiltrate water. So you've created some sort of disaster. Now, every but the whole microbial community isn't a triage situation, trying to repair what has just happened because of this disaster that the gardener or the farmer put on put on the system. So in our system, it's a single disc going through the soil, it's a slice, think of a scalpel, making a clean slice, okay, and as minimal disturbance as possible. And that's the goal is to minimally disturb their home, because we need them to produce our crop. Remember, I said we're not adding fertilizer. So how so? Okay, Deana? How are your plants getting nutrients? If you're not adding fertilizer, everybody adds fertilizer? Deanna? So how are your plants feeding themselves, it's a great system called the rise of ag cycle, where the plants are actually designed to feed themselves through the soil microbiome and through the biology that's in the soil, they actually gather nutrients from your soil and bring it up through your plants. And then the plants feed that community sugar. So they can like, get all amped up and start making more nutrients available, right? It's a functioning system if we allow it. And so the plants will actually farm the microbes to gain the nutrients if we don't interrupt the system with applied fertilizer. Right. But nobody's saying nobody's telling farmers that except for Dr. James White, with the rise of ag cycle out of Rutgers University, he's starting to unveil that fact that hey, guess what your fertilizer application is interrupting your right so if ag cycle and your plants can't care for themselves, and they can't heal themselves, because you're interrupting it with fertilizer first, right? That's insane. But it's, it's, it's awesome. Like plants don't function. Like think about it. In the native areas, who's fertilizing those? They're functioning right? They're growing. There's lots of diversity. Everything is there. It's a functioning system. Nobody's out there hand feeding these plants, nutrients, synthetic nutrients or manures or anything like that. Like it's it's a functioning system. That's our goal on our farm is to be as close to a native system as we can, even though we're in an annual cropping system, right? And that's one of the reasons we're growing heritage varieties of grain. They the heritage varieties have a deeper root structure, they're going to reach out further feed more microbial, feed more of the microbial community, make more water channels exude more sugar to feed more of the underground livestock, right? So these are our essential workers are in the soil. And every time we disturbed them, whether it's with a tillage pass or a herbicide pass. It they it sets them back. Right. So our goal on our farm is to disturb them as little as possible, so that we can grow clean food and keep the water clean. And we don't want to contribute to the nitrate runoff that's killing all of the rivers, right? We didn't we don't want to we don't want to have that contributing factor like they were they're talking about the depth of the water in the rivers being chemical, but it's also very high in nitrate, which is the number one fertilizer used in farming today.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 31:17

All right, well, I got you on the on the warpath. Dr. PHD Deanna, in chemistry. I have a farmer. And we really, a farmer is telling me that she'd grow they grow vegetables and they grow them and coconut husks because of the nutrients. And but they can't come organic because there's no soil. And but it's in a regenerative situation. They have solar trapping, water, it's all self sustained. Greenhouse, that is no added stuff. They have insects there for pollination. And it's in a very controlled environment. And they're like Canada. And that's fantastic. And she goes, You know what, there's some farms south of the border that are organic, and they grow all their food and human waste, and in sewer because it's organic. I think a lot of people don't know this and go to the store and buy organic, but they don't know how to look for health. Could you elaborate that topic? No, I got your eyes even wider.

Deanna Lozensky: 32:34

Do you want to talk about where the salmonella and E. coli contamination comes from?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 32:39

Go ahead?

Deanna Lozensky: 32:41

Well, this is what you're talking about. Yeah. And have you ever noticed that the lettuce or whatever that gets recalled for salmonella contamination or E. coli, it is always organic? Always. So part, there's, it's a couple of things right of those contributing factors. One is, the soil is typically in an organic system, tilde tilde tilde tilde tilde, because they have to control the weeds because organic herbicides are super expensive. So they think that a tillage pass is cheaper to control the weeds, right? So that's what they use. But in the meantime, the soil, the microbiome in the soil, that is there to mitigate disease, right, and the earthworms that are there, they're all destroyed every time we run a tillage pass, or a tiller through, okay, so now when these organic farmers apply manure, whether it's human waste or animal waste, right, it contains salmonella and E. Coli. Right? These are in the, in the waste products. And so in a functioning soil system, those E coli and Salmonella would be eliminated by the biology, it's bio remediation, right, they would fix the problem that's been introduced, and they would neutralize it and metabolize it and keep the disease out of the food. But if the soil is not functioning, and the microbial community is not there to remediate this type of disturbance of waste being added, there's no way of it keeping up staying out of the food because every time those plants get watered, it the water splashes on to this newly applied manure or compost or whatever, and then that splashes up onto the leaves and contaminates it. Right. So this is how it's getting contaminated. Not only in the field, but then it can happen also in the processing facility. So Yeah, it's, there's, it's no system is perfect, right? There's not a perfect system, like if you guys are saying, okay Deanna, we love what you're doing now just remove the herbicide, okay, because you're already doing no till and you're not using insecticide and you're not using fertilizer and you're not using a fungicide to kill all the the fungal network in their soil and you're not using a desiccant as a pre spray prior to harvest, you're not doing all of that. So now just you eliminate the herbicide, and you'll be perfect. It's not a perfect system. It's not a perfect system, the idea is to minimize the disturbance to the ecosystem that we are farming in. And for us, the minimizing the disturbance is at applying a herbicide to mitigate weeds, right, this is why we're putting a herbicide down. Instead of a tillage pass, we're going to use a herbicide pass to eliminate the weeds so that we can grow our crop with so our limiting factor here in central North Dakota is water. We are non irrigated, all dry land. So where are we waiting for rain, which we've had lots of spring, and so we're not in the field yet. But we are required, like we're reliant upon the water that falls from the sky. And so the competition of the other weeds can actually hurt us because it dries out the soil and there's not enough enough water to go around. But here's the thing. So do I think that everyone should use a herbicide? No. Is there a way that we can use it less and use it better, and still produce clean food that is free of chemical and water that is free of chemical and air that doesn't have chemical? Yes. But we need to be doing a better job. And there are farmers like us that are doing doing those things, right? Like, it's not a perfect system. And I everything has a give and take. So our job as soil caretakers is to make sure that what we are doing is the minimal amount of disturbance to the whole ecosystem. That's the goal.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 37:26

So somebody who's for our listeners who are listening to this right now and they're getting all fired up and and they want to eat better, and they want to eat healthier. And now they're like, Well, shit, I can't even go organic, you know? So how do they give us some advice from a consumers about where do they find their food? How do they look at their labels? Where do they where do they buy their food? Can you give us some practical tips for the consumer who wants to feed their family and be healthy and and know what to look for?

Deanna Lozensky: 37:56

Yeah, so the number one thing that everyone should be doing is growing something everyone should be growing something I don't care. Dr. Spence, if you grow a patio tomato, you need to be growing something. Everyone should be growing something that they can feed and nourish their bodies with. That's number one. Number two is if you don't have the capacity to grow your own vegetables, you live in an apartment you live in a condo, you don't have the garden space. Find somebody who does. Right Know Your Farmer, this is important. There are lots of urban farmers, right that are producing vegetables on a broad scale. Find a farmer get to know them ask what they're doing. Right there. There is no shortcut here. It takes some work to find better food and it should be easier than it is. But as it stands right now your best chance is to find a farmer so find a vegetable farmer find if you're a meat eater, find a meat producer so you can see how that meat is grown. And if you're a milk drinker find a dairy that is actually doing it the way you want. And if you want real milk, find it if you want cows that are grazed regeneratively find it it takes some work. We can't just be like here you go. Because not every farmer is willing to build a food company like we did right? Not every farmer is going to put themselves out there on the interweb and be like find us here right and you know that's not it's not going to happen like that. Because there's a lot of risk and and farms are not set up for that big farms, grain farms, whatever your we are not set up to store the grain clean the grain produce the pasta make have flour right like, we are farmers. I was not. I had no plans to three years ago to become a miller and a pasta producer. And and now a distributor like these weren't on this was not in the game plan. It was not on the map, right? Like this was nowhere to be found. And this is not. This is not about stacking enterprises. It's not about vertical integration, right on our farms, we are talking about a moral obligation to feeding people better. And the best way we can do that is for people to be like, I want to source clean food. I'm going to find it. It takes initiative. There's no easy button here. It's not easy for the farmer, and it's not going to be easy for the consumer. The easy button is the food that's on the shelf. Can they if you want to call it food. Right, right. I mean, I mean, I don't know. Do you think it's okay for Whole Foods to carry impossible meat? I mean, is that okay? Right. Right. Yeah, right. It's organic, because it's organic soy.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 41:14

Yeah, and there's so many other ingredients in there that may not be as safe as people think. Well,

Deanna Lozensky: 41:23

how do you how do you make blood flavoring? I'm not, I'm not I'm, you know, anti meat. But if if I was, I would have to be wondering like, how can this taste like blood? That's like, concerning, right? So I don't even want to know the lab that's created in Right. Like that's, I'm just saying, maybe you just eat as fresh as possible, right? Like, simple ingredients fresh as possible. I mean, am I being Am I being like, too? Woowoo? You know, no,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:05

no, I have a safer question for you that that may not raise the hair on the back of your neck. But what describe what this regenerative farming is?

Deanna Lozensky: 42:21

So regenerative farming is not a new term. Right? It's actually an indigenous term that we have lost track of. Right? So the idea now, as it's been reintroduced in the last 10 years, is there are soil health principles, right? That you incorporate and manage into your system. So we're talking about minimizing disturbance, right, so minimizing your tillage, minimizing your herbicide, right, keeping the soil covered, we're talking about no bare soil ever. So those black areas where you're seeing like, Guess I'll hot, guess how hot that ground gets with no cover. We know that that ground can be like concrete, because it's attracting all the heat. So microbial community dies at 160 degrees.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:27

Think about that, right? So

Deanna Lozensky: 43:28

we need to keep the soil covered. That's a skin. That's like having skin. So think of this, think of this. Now. Let's, let's pretend you're the Earth. Okay? And I've gone through and tilled it up. I just ripped off all your skin. And now that's what's left is exposes the tissue. How fast is that going to get destroyed from the heat and from the water? Right? So minimizing the disturbance keep the soil covered. And we want to integrate livestock, right? That's a goal of regenerative agriculture is livestock back on the land out of the confined animal feedlot operations, right and out on the land where they can graze and be rotationally grazed, right. That's the idea. And those are some of the principles that you're we're focused on, right, on how to regenerate our system. And it's a spectrum. It's not an A to B line. It's different for everyone. Not every regenerative farmers cutting out fertilizer. They could, but not every regenerative farmers cutting out insecticide. Not every regenerative farmer is cutting out fungicide not every regenerative farmer is cutting out seed treatments. Do you want to talk about seed treatments? Okay, let's talk about the seed treatments. You want to protect the Paul inators right, the bees and all the pollinators, we have got to be, we cannot be treating seeds with Neo, Nick, Nick, it's noise, right like these are killing the pollinators killing the microbial community in the soil, if you're, if you're a seed that you're putting in the ground, and this is whether you're a gardener buying your seed to go in your garden, or if you're a farmer buying your seed to go on your field, if you open up that seed tote, and it looks like a bag of Skittles, it should not go in the ground. Right? That's not those colors are some sort of seed treatment, whether it's a fungicide or an anti, or an insecticide or whatever, they're poisoning the soil. And when we're talking about putting seed in the ground, you we do not want to be feeding anything to the soil that you wouldn't eat yourself when we're talking about the seed, right, so, on our farm, we seed naked, because that's fun, right? Um, so we talked about that, right, like, all our seed goes in the ground naked, there are no seed treatments, we put a biological primer on it, that we make here on farm. So to improve the microbial community on the seed surface, so that way, when we put the seed in the ground, the whole microbial community is there in a quorum, you have a group of diverse group of microbial community that is there to go to work for your seed to help it engage in the rise of ag cycle and helping to feed the health of plant feed and heal itself. Right. That's the goal. We're no longer wanting to be doctors to sick plants. Like nobody wants that. Let's heal the system and it happens with the soil and so I got stuck on that neonicotinoid thing. Sorry. No.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 46:54

Question. No, no, really? Yeah, you more than answered regenerative farming but Oh, right. Yeah, but I got it. I got stuck on on seeding naked. I thought. I am still on that. All these farmers are out there naked without clothes. In my mind when

Deanna Lozensky: 47:15

it's part of the fun, right? That's fun to say it like that. But really, really, it means that we're not putting any seed treatments on the seed. Yeah,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 47:24

I see a new show and say

Deanna Lozensky: 47:26

that my farmer seeds naked, right.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 47:31

It says the show Naked and Afraid it's gonna be naked in farming.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:37

Seating naked. All right. So I don't think there's a question I could ask. Without Deanna getting fired up. But I think if I switch over to the rapid fire questions and close with that we may have we may, we may not get her all red face today. Oh, yeah.

Deanna Lozensky: 47:58

I'm just saying I'm like, I'm not upset. I just have a lot to say.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:02

I think tastic it's

Dr. Terry Weyman: 48:04

passion. Yeah, passion. I love it. And

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:07

you're so knowledgeable. I feel like I'm talking to a professor of farming, I think testing,

Deanna Lozensky: 48:13

to be fair, that my husband's brilliant. And I pick up on point 5% of the information that he gives me, so that a lot of my information comes from my husband who is resilient on on a lot of levels. And so I don't know a lot of farmers are anybody that wakes up in the morning at 430 or five and reads white papers, right? research papers to find out how we can create a functioning soil system like that's what he does in the morning when it's quiet, and nobody's awake. And then when I do wake up, and he starts telling me all the things he just learned from this white paper, I'm like, can you beat us back up a little bit can give me like the Cliff's Notes, right? Because I feel like it's my job to learn what he's saying in a way that I can help explain it easier to the people that are not willing willing to read the white papers, right? And the research papers, so I tried to break it down on an simple level where it makes sense. And it makes sense to me. And so yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:26

well, obviously that that education has carried over quite well for you, and you've been really good about expressing it. We're gonna go into the rapid fire questions now. And if you're ready, some of this has nothing to do with farming, but we they are fun, I promise you ready? Question number one, karaoke, your go to song or one that you sing when you're working on the farm?

Deanna Lozensky: 49:54

Good viral.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:01

Are you familiar? No. Could you sing a few bars of it?

Deanna Lozensky: 50:09

No. It's an old that's an old chick song. Like they used to be the Dixie Chicks, but it's an old chick song from like, 2000

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:19

Oh, that's great. That's fantastic. Oh my gosh. What did she not hesitate? A second on that one right. All right, question number two. Simply your favorite food to make that makes you feel good inside which one? Pizza? Pizza.

Deanna Lozensky: 50:41

Homemade pizza. Yep, with fresh dough that we make from scratch and fresh tomato sauce from the garden. That's That's my favorites.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:54

Oh my gosh

Unknown: 51:06

Good bye Sorry, bad days.

Deanna Lozensky: 51:20

Just to give you a fast forward through it. They actually ended up killing.

Unknown: 51:28

Very nice.

Deanna Lozensky: 51:30

His Black Eyed Peas. Oh,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:33

yeah. Do you see naked to that song? Alright, moving on. Moving on to the next. So pizza. All right. Very good. Good. That is always a crowd favorite question. Number three, one thing you wish people would understand about farmers?

Deanna Lozensky: 51:55

One thing

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:03

better on this one.

Deanna Lozensky: 52:05

There are so many things. So every farmer wants to grow the best they can. And sometimes, we just need a consumer to reach out and ask some questions. That's really what changed our our whole outlook on producing commodities versus producing food. Right. So we need to know that like farmers need to know we are producing food. Even though it gets sold on the commodity market, I promise you that when farmers start putting the food they are growing, I'm talking about grain farmers, right and even meat producers. It seems strange, but not very many of them are actually putting what they grow on their plate. And when we start putting what we grow on our plate, I promise you will change the way we grow in the process. When we take it from the field, and put it on our plates for our families, it changes things. And we need a nudge in that direction for me. And that was one customer looking for desiccant free wheat berries. And until that point, we had not been eating the wheat that we were growing now because it was not safe to eat. But we just weren't eating what we're growing as crazy as that sounds. And so it just took one person to say, this is what I'm looking for and introduced me to home milling and it changed the dynamic of a commodity versus growing food. And like I will tell you like our farm, right. So on the 2200 acres, a majority 99.5% of the grains we grow goes to the commodity market, we are taking point 5% of the grains we grow and going direct to consumer. That's not very much. So there's a ton of room for growth. But at the same time, because the volume is very small in comparison to what we grow. That's a lot of infrastructure to invest in such a small amount going direct to consumer, not everyone is willing to take that risk. And part of the reason we are willing to take that risk is because of the improvements that we've seen on our return on investment on our farm like we can afford to make those investments on our own. And so it takes somebody All it takes is one person one person literally changed the trajectory of how I considered our farming was food even though we had already transitioned into a regenerative system. I didn't really consider the fact that people didn't have access to it. And so it just takes one. So strike up a conversation with a farmer, they want to hear from you. We want to hear, because as farmers in a commodity level, we don't get to see the end user, the consumer, we don't get to meet that person. Because there are a lot of middlemen in between men and women, middle men and women.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:24

Who question number four? White bread or rye bread? Let's see if she might come up with a sermon for this one, I'm afraid to

Deanna Lozensky: 55:37

say so. Okay. So neither and here's why. There's no white bread. White bread is not something that we have in house. And we grow hard red, wheat spelt. And so we don't have a white wheat. And so I don't make white bread, everything is whole grain bread. So no white bread, and no rice, because I can't clean it out of my heritage Green Zone, right on the farm, because I cannot keep it out of from contaminating my heritage seed, right. So because it's too similarly sized, and we can clean it out in our grain cleaning system. We can clean it and separate it. No right on my farm. Because because I can't keep it out of our seed stock. So neither. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:38

That's your go to. It's good. All right, Deanna. Last question. Number five. Favorite board game you love to play on a rainy day? Oh, boy.

Deanna Lozensky: 56:54

That's a tough one. We've been playing a lot of them lately. Um, let's see. I am going to say

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:04

blank slate. Blank Slate.

Deanna Lozensky: 57:08

Yeah. So we play with our 10, an eight year old and you have to fill in the blank and see if you can match one other person. And then you get points.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:17

Oh.

Deanna Lozensky: 57:22

So that was really fun. It's kind of a board game a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:30

high idea. Oh, my gosh, this was fantastic. You know, when I will admit, when Spencer goes, we gotta get her back. And I was like, Well, what are we going to talk about that we didn't talk about the first time? Yeah, I was. I'm gonna say on there. I was wrong. Yeah. Wow. So I want to end with what is new with your farm, what's new going on? The floor is yours. We're gonna put all the links to how to buy food from you. Other description we even made a commercial we're going to show but the the floor is yours, please tell him tell us what's going on with Guardian greens.

Deanna Lozensky: 58:16

This year, we are doing some interesting things in the field with planting multi species together. In an effort to feed the microbial community a diverse group of seeds. These are not insured by the Federal crop insurance guidelines. So they're at our own risk. And we're gonna put, like with our heritage wheat, for instance, we're going to put some peas in there, some flax in there, and mustard to grow them all together. And because each species will feed a different group and the soil microbiome, so we're trying to keep them all fed, even though we're growing like a mono crop small grain. So that is new, we're starting to transition into a looking at different ways to bring our mill closer to home, out of the total rural Innovation Center and closer to home, just to make things more efficient for us, and to help with supply and demand, which is a good thing. And yeah, so we're just looking forward and we're continuing. Okay, so the one of the most exciting things that we're doing really is we are testing nutritional quality on every one of the grains and the flour that we produce. So each each one of those grains and flour is at a food lab, and they're being tested for nutritional values on every level. So you know you see that nutritional label we talked about labels earlier, and nutritional label on the back That's kind of an algorithm, right? Those are not specific to the food that you're eating at that time. That's just an algorithm based on ingredients. And so that's not as specific as we would like to see for our, our whole grain and our stone milled paths are still milled flour, our pasta has the correct nutritional label on it, that's the only one that we had run nutritional testing on before was the pasta so that pasta is an actual nutrient label for this that's specific to the pasta that that we are providing. But now we're extending the nutritional testing into the whole of the whole grains and into the flour as well. So that way people can actually see the nutrition that is actually from our grain than not some algorithm or not from the internet that I can buy a nutritional label for $50. Online, did you know that it's a thing. And with that, right, so. So these are specific tests that we are running, that cost about$1,600 per test. So that we can find the exact nutrient profile of the grains were growing to help communicate that to consumers so that they can know without actually coming to the farm, they can see like, this is the nutritional quality of the grain that's coming off of that farm or the flour that's coming off of that farm. So now our nutritional label isn't limited just to our pasta anymore. Now it'll go through all the grain and all the flour as well, which is really fun, and an extra step. But I think it's really important to help communicate, like you said, how people can No, not that, well, you have the nutrition that they're getting in their food. And it's not some algorithm or some computer generated nutritional label that I can buy online for $50. So that's pretty exciting. That's should be finishing up the testing on that this week. And we'll have Trient labels on our new packaging that rolls out this summer. So it's pretty fun. Um

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:19

Do you have any recipes that you like on your website? Or do you put what I'm gonna remember seeing it?

Deanna Lozensky: 1:02:27

On the website under recipes? There it's recipes to regenerate your system, right? And those are tried into true recipes. Those are like for sure a hit. I have experimented for three years with stone milk flour, and it's a little bit of a learning curve. So yeah, those are all really good options. And I didn't get to ask you guys any questions. Can I ask you one question before we sign off?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:56

Go for it.

Deanna Lozensky: 1:02:57

What's your favorite way to have pasta like our pasta like the garden grains pasta? What is your favorite way to have it? I'll

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:05

tell you I'll tell you I got it right off the top of my head there. There's a there's a company I found called minimalist and they have sauces and they make a pesto that so that it's perfect for your pasta. But I realized I have to put more because your your pasta is your pasta as it's like you said what is it? It's like? Yeah, right. And it is fantastic. In fact, I'm getting hungry just talking about it right now. So good. I bought your pasta with with a good pesto. My favorite.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:03:42

We go with a good homemade meat sauce. A marinara meat sauce

Deanna Lozensky: 1:03:50

very cool. Happy. Yeah. Oh,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:03:53

there you go. I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:55

think I'm gonna make some right now. Yeah, you're great. I really really mean I, I you know, food is my favorite thing. So I talked about you know what, how you remodeled my my thought process about about eating pasta in America.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:04:14

Yeah, thank you.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:15

Thank you very much for paying attention. Yeah. much. Appreciate it. All right. That's all for this week. Thank you.

Deanna Lozensky: 1:04:25

Thanks, guys.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:27

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.