TIPS on how Prevent Youth Baseball Injuries Now!

In this compelling episode of The Crackin' Backs Podcast, we welcome Douglas White, a former MLB pitching coach renowned for his expertise and innovative approaches in the high-pressure world of Major League Baseball. Join us as Doug shares his strategies for maintaining mental resilience and focus, both for himself and his players, amidst the fast pace and intense demands of professional sports.

Doug White, who shepherded the pitching development program for the Houston Astros, explains why this initiative was crucial at the MLB level and the significant outcomes it achieved. Parents of young baseball enthusiasts will find invaluable advice as Doug discusses the alarming trend of excessive throwing injuries in youth baseball due to overuse. He provides expert lessons on how to prevent these injuries and emphasizes what the focus should be for young players until they reach physical maturity.

In this episode, Doug also delves into the balance between data-driven decisions and traditional coaching instincts in developing player strategies. He shares his key principles for maintaining physical and mental health under the rigors of a demanding season, offering insights that are critical for both athletes and everyday individuals.

Additionally, Doug talks about his exciting new project—a holistic player performance app. He explains the need it addresses and how it aims to revolutionize player development by integrating physical, mental, and emotional health.

Key Topics Discussed:

Strategies for mental resilience and focus in MLB

Insights from the Houston Astros' pitching development program

Preventing throwing injuries in youth baseball

The balance between data-driven decisions and traditional coaching

Principles for maintaining health and longevity

Introduction to Doug White's holistic player performance app

Listen now on The Crackin' Backs Podcast and transform your approach to baseball coaching and player development! You can also view on our YouTube Channel!

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

Welcome to the cracking backs Podcast. Today we're thrilled to have Douglas Wade, former major league baseball pitching coach with us today. Imagine the high pressure and fast pace of Major League Baseball. How do you maintain mental resilience and focus in such an environment? Doug shares his secrets. As the driving force behind the Houston Astros pitching development program. Doug reveals why this initiative was crucial and its impactful outcomes. Concerned about youth baseball and throwing injuries. Doug offers invaluable advice for parents and young athletes will also explore the bounce between data driven decisions and traditional coaching instincts. key principles for health and longevity, and Doug's exciting new holistic player performance app. This episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:56

All right, listen, there's if I could sing I would be doing the cracker but Cracker Jack Take Me Out to the Ballgame to start this show. But since I can't sing, and Spencer would just disconnect me. People we got a n m l I can't even pronounce it. MLB. pitching coach on the show. This is starting that great. Hi, Spencer on the show today, and we have a major league pitching coach who is and we got baseball season right now. Right? So it's spring season, we're ramping up. And we got the guy from the LA angels Honor show. Douglas white Welcome to the show. And you're gonna be teaching us all about baseball for all those kids out there. We got a gem of a man so welcome.

Doug White: 1:45

I appreciate you guys having me.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:47

Yeah, beautiful. Being a coach nowadays, you gotta be like part psychologist part, you know, fitness guy, nutritional guy, you're not just teaching kids how to throw? And so with the high pressures and fast pace of of baseball, how do you maintain them that resilience and focus for not only for yourself, but the coaching and the players and all this stuff? Let's just start off. Well,

Doug White: 2:11

I'm I'm currently not in the major leagues like I, you know, I stepped away in 2019. So I'm a former major league pitcher. These days, I can handle it just fine, because I can watch it from the couch. And I can be nice and relaxed. It's it's my friends who are still inside the league, who are the ones who are going crazy and wondering every day, whether they're going to have a job the next day or not.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 2:41

And hence why the haircut because you can go you can go wild. Go Rogue. Well, that makes it even better. Because you have now inside and outside. Look at all the stuff going on right now. And with some where are some of the lesser known challenges that people don't think about when they see the coach in the dugout at a coach in the first base or the pitching coach or the hitting coach? What are some of the challenges that the average public doesn't think about?

Doug White: 3:11

Well, I mean, it's the whole dynamics of the infrastructure of your organization, it's It's your ability to gain trust with those multimillion dollar athletes, it's your ability to communicate to anybody inside the the the organization, you know, to get them to trust you and believe in you and or give them the information that that is really going to help them develop and create a long standing, successful big league career. So there I mean, there's tons of things that are going on, inside of that dugout inside of that infrastructure of an organization. And it's it's one of those things men it's it's not the easiest thing to to navigate sometimes. Can you

Dr. Spencer Baron: 4:03

you know, both Dr. Terry and I, we treat a lot of athletes and you know, some of what you're sharing, you know, is not just exclusive to baseball or pitching. But, Matt, I would love if you could share a specific instance where like maybe an innovative coaching method really improved the player's performance. And how did you measure? How would you measure that impact?

Doug White: 4:25

Yeah, well, I think most of the things are going to be over a longer term period. You know, I think, you know, fans might think that it's, you know, these things are quick fixes. Like if you're really trying to change somebody's, let's say their pitch arsenal, right? It's something that comes over a matter of time, and there's a recipe to it. There's an experiment process that's going on, right. So part of that deal is like for example, back in the day when I was with the Astros, we were the first really to, to bring analytics on to the field. And so what we would Do an instructional League. This was like back in 2014, we had track man for the first time track man is a is a radar system for the people listening. It's a radar system that basically catches the ball in flight. And it reads all the characteristics that you would want to have in regards to a pitch being thrown. And so what we would do is we would set up a drill system. So, for example, you'd get on the mound, and you throw in front of track man, and it gives you immediate feedback of a specific type of pitch. Let's say you're working like on a changeup. So we know the type of spin, we want the shape, we want the velocity, we want these types of things. And so we do it. And we'd be like, Okay, that's great. Those are great reps. Or we'd be like, No, that's not even close. Like that's, that's not going to help. So what we would do is, then we'd get in a drill position. And then we tried the drill on the track, man, did the drill, help the shape? Did the trail that did that drill, help, the feel of the pitch out of hand, these types of things. And then we would just do that continual recipe of try this, okay, now do it in a full delivery, try this now doing a full delivery, try this now do it in a full delivery. And eventually, with every athlete, you would find, hey, this works best. Okay, great. Now, let's see if we can continue that repeat that, we'll keep checking it, keep repeating it, keep checking it, keep repeating it on and on. And then eventually you have these pitch shapes change. And we didn't know that that's what was going to happen. We just started doing things from you know, from from the science perspective, that we thought would work best. And then we evolved it as we went.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 6:46

That is, so you're basically rewiring the brain by repetition, right? That's one day and you get such good, fast, direct feedback. Well, what makes what made you such a hotshot, pitching coach? How did you get into it? How did that start for you?

Doug White: 7:07

Well, to be honest with you, I, the reason why I feel like I'm a, I was a quality pitching coach is because I wasn't a very good player, I had to do the background, I had to do the studying to really understand what the craft was. So as a player, I was always fighting to throw harder. And at the time, there wasn't these driveline baseball systems and these other, you know, private academies, it wasn't like that at all. And so when I was when I was playing, when I was trying to figure out how to throw harder, I would go from coach to coach, and no one really could help me, there wasn't anything going on. So I had to do my own digging. And so I actually ended up meeting Brent Strom, who's a friend and mentor of mine, you know, I've known him for over 20 years now he's currently the Diamondbacks pitching coach, but he was with the Astros and then formerly with the, with the Cardinals when I was there, so on and so forth. But anyways, he opened me up to like a new world of biomechanics and, and velocity training and such. And so I just went along the road to do my own research, my own studying, listen to people that I felt were, were ones that you could trust inside the industry. And then you just work with the players. And they're going to show you whether you know, what the heck you're doing or not, by, by, by what's showing up on the field. And we just got good enough of things, where were we and then we got supported with this objective feedback that we just got better and better and better at our outer system. You, I got to digress

Dr. Spencer Baron: 8:47

for just a second, you said something that's probably more valuable than you actually realize. You know, it's funny because coaching is a technique or strategy. It's an admit a capability, that people think that while he was the a good player, and, you know, probably the best coaches were terrible players. And I could be a testimonial to it because I worked at Miami Dolphins, some of the best players were the worst coaches. And, and I worked on Barry Bonds for eight years. And he coached for the Marlins. So he got kind of it because he wasn't a good coach, but he was extraordinary player. So I'll leave it at that. So what you said was really much more valuable than you think. So thank you for sharing. Yeah, well,

Doug White: 9:35

there's a there's a deal with, you know, how do you go gain your information? And if it's always been innate inside of you, it's always been this natural. I just do. I just go I just be, then there's not unnecessarily any sort of digging that you have to do personally to better yourself on the field. And so as a coach It's like, well, how do you then demonstrate or explain to somebody, something that's been innate inside of you your entire career. So your conversations are going to be quite different than if you're a guy like me who I need to understand all the X's and O's, because I'm trying to show players that I'm a value to them. And that me not playing in the highest of the highest of levels, I can still help you get you to the highest of highest of level because it in the end, it's a relationship. No coach should ever be telling you what you're supposed to be doing. That's the in my opinion, that's that's falsity. A coach is supposed to be there purely for guidance and suggestions. And the player has to be the one making those final decisions for themselves. But if you're not prepared as a coach, like, if you can't be a good business consultant, then how are you ever helping somebody and guiding and suggesting them? So there's some there's, there's definitely a lot of different layers to coaching, some, some are really wanting to dig into all those layers. And some don't really want to they just want to stay at the the level they were at when they played, you know, and it's it's just up to the individual and what they want to do.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 11:30

I'm gonna interject for some, do you find that? Because, you know, being out in Southern California, all that a lot parents get drawn to a name. He's like, Oh, you're a, you're a major league player for eight years. I want I want my kid to go to you. How do you break that paradigm? We're what to get what you just said, we're sometimes the best players aren't the best people. I mean, that's gotta be tough. Well,

Doug White: 11:57

the you know, the deal is, for me, I work off of a different belief system, you know, my belief system is that, that you'll create the clients that you want and or need, based off who you are as a as a human being and the type of energy that you're giving off. And so it's like, it's not my job to convince somebody else that I'm capable of doing something. It's that person's job to take a look at me and say, Hey, what is this person saying or doing that's different than what the others are? And if it is different, what is like what is different about it that I should be listening to? Because if there's 30 coaches over here, saying all the same thing, what does it matter who I choose? But if there's this one coach over here, and it's like, wow, that's a different perspective. What is it about that perspective? Man, I want to ask that person. How did they learn that? How do they go about that? So it's really the parents job, in my opinion, the parent needs to do their own research. And if they're only going off of a name, then yes, that's not really doing your due diligence. And so it's a little tough. Yeah, agreed.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 13:17

So let's talk about Houston Astros and your, your idea of bringing in the, you know, pitching development program. How did you start that and, you know, so

Doug White: 13:29

that that was an amazing process, man, like, looking back on it, you know, as the years go by now, it not only was it amazing, it was so much fun. But it first started with Jeff luneau, because he's he was a GM where he allowed you to do your job. It was as simple as that. And if you couldn't do your job, he'd simply replace you. Or you have to do something else inside the organization. So that was the first thing. And so because he let us do our job, and me specifically, because at the time, I was heading up some of those things, I was able to think, from my point of view, what I thought was going to work to get guys better not worry about what everyone else inside the organization was going to think because I did things. Sometimes on the extreme were coaches, the older coaches that were in the organization already, they looked at me and were like, What the hell is this kid doing? And why the hell are we gonna listen to this? But Jeff trusted me. And he let me do me. And so that's basically how that started, where I was like, Okay, we need a process. We need a system, because how are you going to evaluate something? If you don't know what you're evaluating? If you don't have your processes? Your system in place, I'm not worried if the process doesn't work. Because that's easy. If you're in a process and things aren't working, you simply take out something and replace it with something else. But if you don't have a process in place, we're lost. There's no foundation to stand upon. We're all screwed. And so that's really the main thing that I did We did inside that system, is we created a process and then we tested the process. Give

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:33

me an example. Give me like a real, so something.

Doug White: 15:38

So for example, the feedback channel, you wanted a feedback channel constantly. So if you're at of an affiliate, these are minor league coaches, coaching minor league players, we needed a feedback system. So let's say again, there's a player in a bullpen working on a specific pitch type. Like there's many things they could be working on, let's just think one pitch, right? Okay, well, what's your feedback system? What's your process, I need to have the proper cameras in place, I need to have the proper analytics feedback channel in place. I the pitcher needs to be capable willing, wanting ready to do the work that needs to be done. I need to be ready to receive the information and convey it in a way that the person can understand or ask the right questions, or I need to be the one asking the right questions. This is what I mean by what's your process in place to make sure you're doing things properly. Because man, you could make people better fast. And that's one of the things we did with the Astros is most teams believed at that time that what you had is what you had, like, yeah, you could develop a guy or two. But we were developing guys from round one to round. You know, whatever, however many rounds there were back then. We were developing all those guys. And so we did things differently. Man in it. It worked out it proved itself. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 17:13

That's great. Hey, by any chance were you there? When the chiropractor Dana Harper, was there? Do you remember? I

Doug White: 17:21

don't remember the name. I don't remember the name. Yeah. When I was in the minor leagues, you know, you're not hanging out with the big league staff too much. And so, you know, they're getting the Cairo's on the road and so on. So for that's not something the minor league system was getting at the time.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 17:35

I just thought it threw out there. He had been around with the Astros for a long time. But that's cool. You know, how much of that feedback? Would you provide a pitcher? That was mental emotional versus just Yeah, technique?

Doug White: 17:54

Yeah. So that's a great question. So first things first is I'm always working through the emotional side of things anyways, I'm not doing physical first. Because, you know, if they're not, if the player is not ready to feel something, receive something here something, what have you, it doesn't matter what you do physically, it's never going to stick. So for example, if a player is doing something fair based, they are going to be searching and finding for ever. They you know, because it's going to work for two weeks, and then they're going to be scared about that is gonna work for another two weeks, and they gotta go to something else another two weeks. So I do the best I can to that, that's the first lens I'm going to look through. Right? Cool. And then it's like, okay, cool. Now, what are we doing physically to support what's going on inside your body? What are we going to change to support what's going on inside your body? And if you're not doing that, check in on both the physical mental and emotional all three spiritual to if you want to add that in, you know what I mean? Then you're not necessarily, in my opinion, you're not really doing the holistic type of coaching process, which, in my opinion, these days more than ever, is so needed. So needed because things are moving so much faster than they've ever moved before. And the players don't get that they they know it, they know it's going that way. But they don't know it if that makes sense.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 19:45

You know, what you're saying is so powerful, you know, the mindset of a pitcher. I had the golden opportunity I was working to remember call him well, Cole Hamels. Oh yeah, it's still and I'm working on him and and He asked, I said, Let me you know, you're on the mound, it's the night it's the bottom of the ninth inning. And, you know, and bases are loaded. And you gotta you gotta batter that's, you got three balls, two strikes, the next pitch means everything to you. How do you feel? What are you thinking? I gotta tell you, Douglas, I get goosebumps. Attitude was so powerful about. He goes, Oh, I got that. I go, What do you mean, you just like that you got? He goes? Yeah, think of it this way. The odds are against the batter. Take the best bet like a 300. I don't even know. I don't know, you know how it works. I think the best match? The odds are in my favor. And I thought, Wow, what a mind what a mind II had you know about that? So you have to retrain that in one, someone who doesn't think that way? Yes.

Doug White: 20:59

And also like what you're saying. He felt that when he said, Oh, yeah, I got that. Yeah, there was no resistance in that statement. There was no split energy in that statement. That was a pure Claire. Oh, no, I got it. Yeah. And that's the difference that that's the difference between the guys that are hanging around the minor leagues are going up and down from the minors to the majors compared to the guys that pitch in the big leagues for five to 1015 years. Because they're there, it doesn't mean you have to feel that way. 24/7, you're not going to pitch from that feeling place every time you go out. But that's going to be your default. You know what I mean? Your default is not going to be like, I have no clue what I'm doing. I'm scared of what I'm doing or whatever. That's not your default. Your default is no come on, man. I got this. I know what I'm doing here. Okay, let's get back to work. And

Dr. Spencer Baron: 21:59

that that for any listener who is not even into baseball, that should be a metaphor for life. Man, if someone asks you if you could do this, own it, own that. I love that.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 22:12

I think that's such a thank you. As late people that aren't like the baseball people we always hear about the Yips, you know? And we hear about a pitcher in baseball, golf a little bit but baseball is like owns that know that term? Why and how you get somebody who? Alright, for a lay person Kershaw. He's great during the season, but come to the playoffs. These seems to crumble. Yeah, why and how do you work with a pitcher like that to get them out of the yips and even avoid it in the first place? Yeah,

Doug White: 22:50

so I mean with Kershaw, that's not necessarily the yips obviously that's more of like specific situations specific time right but like the the pitcher Ricky and keel, right, and then chuck Knobloch, the second Bay old second baseman for the Yankees, he, you know, these names that kind of had it, were like, literally, you saw it, you know, like 50,000 fans, were watching it. TV, you know, like, wow, this person's really struggling right now. And so for me, like, I actually have had the yips because I used to have to throw batting practice. And so I had this feeling about me like, wow, like, I made it more than it was where it was like, Man, I'm, I'm throwing batting practice to professional hitters. And I never pitched paths in the ball. Like, oh my God, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can be good enough for these guys. I don't know if I you know, these kinds of thoughts were running through my head. And I would have moments where I couldn't hit a broad the broadside of a barn and mountain the ball was behind hitters 20 feet into the ground. I mean, the most embarrassing shameful experiences ever. And the interesting thing is, though, I've also lit literally the next day or the next week came back and through amazing batting practice. And so my experience from that was again, emotional. Were the Days I felt. Oh, no, no, no, I don't want to do this. You know what I mean? I don't know what's gonna happen here. That's exactly how it went for me. yips galore. But the days I was able to let say control that line of thinking, so I could feel better about myself and I could have that confidence. I throw great VP like nothing. So for me with an athlete, most people think yips is a brain thing. I don't agree with that at all. I think yips is about how do you feel about yourself in these moments? What are these expectations about yourself that you have? Who do you think you're letting down by not being able to do these things? Like there? It's it's a psychology Yes. But it's a emotion behind the SEC psychology. So, now, we say that right? And now you you bring up Clayton Kershaw meaning like, you know, these are, these are like the most pressured filled times, right? And can he pitch in those situations? And to be honest with you, I can never speak for Clayton Kershaw. I don't know. Because it's not the Yips, it's more of you know, everybody is looking at you. It's a World Series. There's nobody else playing anymore. It's like you're the leader of your team, you're supposed to pitch well. And so I can't really tell you the answer of why hasn't he had the elite success in postseason, that he has, in the regular season? I can't, I would never want to speak for him. But I would believe that he knows. I just don't know if he's ever taken the time to look at it, and maybe assist himself in moving forward from it. You know, but that's would be my thought process on it.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 26:25

All right. Carrying on that, that thought process, you got that guy coming from a D one school, and he throws 60 games a year. And he goes to the pros, and it's 160 games a year, as a pitching coach, how do you get his body in and mind ready for that massive change? She doesn't go down that pathway? And how do you focus on him doing his job and not focusing on the feelings? But actually just the mechanics?

Doug White: 26:52

Yeah. So first things first is you know, when you come when a new pitcher comes into an organization, it's it's going to be that learning curve situation, right? Where the player then says, like, you can only say so many things to a person, they have to have their own life experience with it, to understand what their regimen of work needs to be leading into the next start. Because yes, in college, for example, you start one time a week. And in pros, you're starting every fifth day, and you're doing that for six months, right? And so the player themselves has to understand how much energy do I need to put into my preparation today, the next day, the next day, the next day leading up to my Start, and they need to know how to tear that. So we'll have conversations with them. We'll try to suggest and guide them again, like we talked about earlier. But in the end, we need to be asking them the questions. What worked out for you today? What worked out for you this week? What worked out for you this month, you know, what were the things that you did that best helps you to recover, to be ready for it? Because really, it's about can you get on the mound every fifth day? And can you feel good enough that you believe like, Oh, my good stuff is here today. You know, that's a that's a different kind of thing. So I think it's just holding somebody's hand for a little while, and you guys are walking each other through it, you know? But what was the second part of that? Sorry?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 28:25

Just how do you get them to focus on the job and not the feelings?

Doug White: 28:29

Yeah, well, that's the thing. What do you mean by not the feelings?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 28:33

So what a lot of times people will say confidence is a feeling not a and if you do your job and do it to the best you're feeling the feelings will be there, the conference will be there. But if you put the conference first, then you get lost in that and you forget how to do the job. So that's kind of that's yeah,

Doug White: 28:52

that's super interesting. You know, it's funny that you brought that up because I did a talk one time and it was 2012 at Ron Wolfers Academy. He's uh, he, you know, owns an academy in in Texas. He's pretty, pretty famous inside the baseball world, right. And I did a talk about success is rooted in emotions. And at the time, the Cleveland Indians were in the audience and I was with the Astros. I just got to the Astros and the talk I did. They were impressed by it enough to where they wanted me to come speak to them. But I already had a contract with the Astros so I couldn't say yes. But what they did is I didn't know it at the time they called the Astros and said actually, we want to interview Doug too, because I was a rookie league coach at the time. I was there for eight seasons in the rookie league. And they said, Hey, we want to interview Doug for the double a pitching coach shop. And I didn't know this at the time. This is all you know, behind the scenes stuff. So instead of that the Astros didn't want to lose me at the time they knew Have somebody out of a position to go to the big leagues? They offered me the roving instructor job. So in one offseason, I went from a rookie league pitching coach to a roving instructor. So I skipped every level of the minor leagues, and I basically went into management at the time, right? Because of that talk. And literally the talk was about, do you need to be successful? To Be confident? Or do you understand that you can have confidence that will then help that relationship of success grow? And so it's like this conversation is like the chicken in the egg. Which one is it? Right? Well, here's what I would say to it. Like, without getting, you know, doing the whole 15 minute talk for you right here right now, right, is that I think it's as simple as this. It doesn't matter which one you think chicken or ache. But if you're waiting around for success, to happen to feel good about yourself, you might be waiting a very long time. And so in my opinion, this is about life. It's not about sport. And you should never live life, not feeling good about who you are. That's not a way to go about your day to day work, practice fun, flow, whatever it is. So that's, you know, that's the thing, we're like, you're gonna get these coaches in these doors like, well, well, they need to be successful. It's like, well, we need to show him what that is. We need to help them along that pathway, but we're also growing human beings. And that's the thing I think we're missing right now, a lot in these major organizations, is are we growing human beings? And is that then gonna prove itself on the field? And I don't think it's always a one to one correlation. I understand that. But I guarantee there is a correlation that could greatly bump up the success of your players.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 32:03

That is fantastic. I almost want to listen to this talk. Get the podcast, man, let's turn this into a seminar. That was great, man. I really I love that stuff. I'm going to ask you a burning question that Dr. Terry and I have always had in regards to youth, youth baseball, and what we're seeing as far as injuries in in these kids, and the parents and the coaches, and please, please, from your superior thought process, and experience, what are we seeing like? Well, I'll tell you, Dr. Terry, and I see these adult styled injuries in these rides. What the heck is going on? Wow.

Doug White: 32:56

Yeah. So like, you know, it's so funny, because, you know, everyone thinks it's like, technology. And you got to get really specific and all these things, right. So we could talk about this on its own for like five hours, right? So let me see if I could just kind of like button it down a little bit. For First things first, okay. You're young kids need to be athletes. If they're not playing, moving, multiple sports, multiple directions, multiple speeds, multiple ways, so on and so forth. It's like, what are you doing? Because again, think about it now. We're developing a human being. If you're later in life, and you have balance and agility and flexibility, and power and speed, and you have these things that you've produced at a young age, it carries out through the rest of your livelihood. That's so forget, again, forget about travel. Baseball, who cares? Like my sister, I love my sister, right? She's got a son, and he's in soccer. And he goes, we won the tournament. It's like, every weekend, there's tournament Oh, we won that. We won the championship. We won the championship. And I go to Mr. Nolan. And it's that's his name. I said, Nolan, I love you. And I don't care. I don't care if you ever win a championship. I don't care if you ever win a tournament. The only thing you want to be doing right now is developing skills. As a young athlete at a certain age games don't matter as much as the practice and the skill acquisition period. And then you hit a certain age and yes, then games take over naturally, because of the level you're attempting to get to. You got to be good at games. You got to be good at performing in games. But as a young player, doesn't matter. Okay, so there's your first thing like just develop as an athlete right? Then you got these coaches wanting to win a 10 year old 11 year old 12 year old game, so they pitch Johnny on Friday and Sunday, and they split up the eating so he can pitch and they give him his ultimate pitch count and dead dead to death. And he's doing it all year around. And then they go, why did I get hurt? Why did my son get hurt? Why are these injuries getting me going up and bla bla bla bla bla. I don't think there's one answer. There never is to anything, right? But what I can tell you is, there's a better way. There's a different process we can have. But but so but now think about this. Where does it start? Is it the 10 year old? Or is it the coach and the parent. So to me, it's not the 10 year old making a decision. I know that 10 year old wants to play gosh, I wanted to play all day every day. But come on, now you're a parent, you're not playing anymore. Think about your child and the long term development and love of your child, and then you're a coach do the same thing they're winning is winning is besides the point you could coach to win when you get on the field and such. But your long term development has nothing to do with the winning factor.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 36:19

All right, I gotta jump in. Sorry, I gotta jump in on this one. Because this one fires me up. Because, you know, I'll be I work at a D one school and and I taught I talked to a recruiter one time and I go, what's the number one thing you look for? And he goes genetics. And and I went, Oh, okay. And he was like, if a pitcher I wanted to be six foot three, or whatever. I guess I'd like for genetics first. Then I looked for passion. And I look for how their bodies are they still love it when they're college? Do they still? Do? Are they strong? Are they athletic, and he was a fat kid kick us if I got a guy that can throw the ball and hit the bat back, stop at 90 miles an hour, give me a year I'll have a hit in the glove. Because but I can't get the genetics, the strength and the passion goes to you don't care if the kid won a national championship at nine. And you know, so. So now I flipped that. And I have a parent who's bought a warehouse and built a pitching cage, a batting cage for his nine year old kid, and is not a business decision. He's not renting it is just for his kid. And, and I'm like, we these parents think that they're building the next day only because we threw his name out the next Kershaw at eight and nine. And they're making a pitch on AI, he has to hit 100 Yo things for the pitching machine and throw 50 pitches before he can come in and eat dinner tonight. You know, it's like, they're going crazy. And then the third part of this question or statement is, you're hearing that the politics in high school and junior high baseball is number one over all sports. So can you tie this up and finish where you say why baseball so political? Why? The push is a financial push to please kids year round? And why did these parents get in the mindset that Oh, my kid is so talented. They may be a talent nine but is he gonna be talented at 18? And the fat kid who's sitting on the bench? Who can't even play maybe your best player at 18? How? How do we how do we help with this mindset, this almost like getting a cancerous growth

Doug White: 38:41

model. First of all, whoever built that warehouse for their nine year old kid, I'm looking to raise capital for this project I'm working on so if that person just wants to give me that money, I'll teach the nine year old and forget the warehouse for you just give me the capital because I need it for the current project I'm working on that's being said first. So

Dr. Spencer Baron: 39:05

we're gonna say that, yeah.

Doug White: 39:08

Please, please bring them my way. But you know, I can't, I can't, for the life of me understand really what's going on here because I never was brought up this way. My dad was always like, if you want to go do something, you asked me, and I'll support you in it. But I'm not going to drive you. I'm not meaning not, you know, not physically drive me. I'm not going to be the one leading the way in the motivation and inspiration to go do something. I'm just going to let you know I'm in support of whatever you want to do. And so I think part of this is like how do you educate a parent to love and support the kid in the passions that they have? But then you're the parent So you're the one really ultimately making the decision of the health of the long term. You know, the long term decisions you're making? So I don't know, is it? Is it where every baseball league needs to have a physician that talks to the parents at the beginning of every season? And and to the coaches? Is it that seek seek because now it's like you have pitch counts, because, again, like everyone tries to create a solution, that they have no clue whether that's even an issue. Right? So you have pitch counts, right? But now, if you take away pitches to a degree, and you want to pitch the kid more, that might be worse, because you pit you can pitch a kid back to back to back days. I mean, I've heard of kids pitching three days in a row in these tournaments. And they go, Oh, it's okay. He only threw two innings yesterday. It's like the kids 12 years old, he's not know the world, it professional baseball, if you're in minor leagues, you will never throw three days in a row. And if you throw two days in a row, you will have a specific amount of time off, before you get back on the bunk. That's in the professional ranks. So it's like these kids aren't even treated, like perfect. They think they're being professionals. But that's not how this is working. So I, to be honest with you, I don't know if I have a good answer for you there. Because who's going to come in and educate? And then who's going to want to listen? Because the parent and the coach has to want to listen?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 41:37

You know, I think you're answering it. Because I think and I think a lot of it is competitiveness, you know, I'll have, and I know Dr. Spence and I have, what parents will come to us and say that the, my son got recruited for all stars in the summer. And I don't want to I want I want to go on vacation, I want to take it but then all the other parents are like, you have to go and they feel the peer pressure from the other parents. And then they're getting the peer pressure from the coaches saying, Oh, your kids so good. He needs to sign up for for travel ball, or he needs to sign and some of them are on two or three teams. So they may only throw once a week for travel ball, but then on the other team they're on they're throwing once a week on the other team, they're on the throw. So they're, they're throwing constantly. But a lot of it's I think the the competitiveness of well, you know, my little kid wants to be he was drafted number one next year, if he doesn't play travel ball, he's gonna be drafted number three, you know. And so what some conversations that to give the parents the the fortitude to say, no coaches, no, thank you, thank you, thank you. But no, I got work on my kid to be an athlete, not a pitcher specialist.

Unknown: 42:51

So I think what you made a huge point there, it's this competitiveness, these parents think that their kids are going to be left behind, if they're not playing with all these other kids all year around. And it's just not true. There's a specific point in time, like, let's just say high school, when you enter high school, I can understand now, if you've if you understand this as the sport you want to be playing, I can understand now you train it in some way shape, or form all year round. But you don't compete in the sport all year round. You train inside the sport, you don't compete. And that's the difference between travel ball, and what is what should be going on. There competing almost all year. So that means a kid who has like, no time off, no preparation, no, like, let's just say like no muscle. Like there's no like their joints aren't taken care of there's the tendons aren't strong ligaments aren't set, you know, the all these things going on. And then it's all just compete, compete compete. So what I would say maybe with a parent, or a coach to kind of maybe soften it is how about we train all year, we don't compete all year. So let's do some things for the kids body, mind soul, that are going to help them gain in their sport without playing the actual sport. And that can be done. That's a easy process. Any strength conditioning coach worth a hoot? Will will be able to give you some sort of a what is a mesocycle? Is that what the the I don't know what the long term cycle of a year is. But I think messa was a month cycle. I don't know. Anyways, if you can get a year calendar, strength coach could sit down with you and your kid and say, Hey, here's a good way to set up your year.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 44:53

All right, at what point at what age in your experience from youth all the way up to pros do, you bring in a strength coach and a pitching coach? Well,

Doug White: 45:04

you can be doing strength things like when you're 1011 12, for sure, because it's all bodyweight, all body control. So I would want somebody right away to understand how to do a body squat, how to do a body push up how to do a pull up, how to do a somersault, how to do a handstand, how to do a cartwheel, like all these athletic different types things. So for example, what I would suggest for younger kids, eight 910 11, those kinds of ages, get in a karate class, get in a gymnastics class get in. So like, if you don't have to call it Training. So the kids not like, God, I'm showing up and this coach is beat me up for an hour, you know what I mean? It's like, do do these activities that you know, are going to help the kid I did dance classes. When I was young, my parents had me in tap jazz and ballet. I mean, that helped me big time with rhythm, and balance and coordination, you know, and it helps for the ladies to like, I can dance in front of a lady that that's like a plus, you know what I mean? stuff. So it's like, you know, I think it's this, this this deal where we get so like, oh, it has to be like this. It's like, no, no, no, the possibilities are out here. Let's, what are some things that we could do that feel better? For

Dr. Terry Weyman: 46:23

our kids? When you bring in a pitching coach? Oh, man,

Doug White: 46:28

okay. So, because I do get this sometimes, and especially when I was was coaching more actively parents would be like, What do I need to do for my kid, he's nine years old, I said, Look, just try to throw the ball as far as you can. And try to throw the ball as hard as you can. That's it. Just keep doing that until you're like 13 or 14. And then we can we can kind of do some other things. Because what's going on is your body is acclimating like, it's, it's, it's supporting what the end goal is. So if you're bottler, so this is actually a really good conversation for parents right now. Because if you're an 11 year old kid, and you can't throw strikes, but you throw hard, and you're walking the world, you should keep walking the world. Don't slow down, don't do something differently, to be careful, and try to aim the ball to throw a strike. You want your body to be loose, big, like, free, all these kinds of things. And then eventually, as you start to learn this craft, you'll hone yourself in now I know, obviously, sometimes it doesn't happen exactly that way. And so then there is some some seeking of some knowledge you might want to have. But as a young athlete, a young kid learning how to throw, hit, specially hit, you want to hit bombs, you want to hit the ball as far in the air as you can. That's it. And that's it, and then your body, again, your body starts to do the things you need it to do to create that path to get the end goal. And so that's really the biggest coaching thing at first is throw as hard and as far as you can. And then of course, it'd be like, Well, maybe not every single day. I don't know, you know, those are things we would have to discuss for the individual kid. But that'd be the first thing I'd say. Do I it's funny, because right on the corner here, right? Am I right? In my neighborhood, there's a really small field that all the like, I think it's like eight, nine year olds play 789 year olds play. And I want to run out to the mound to go stop throwing, like, because it's like it's discombobulated. You know, it's so bad. And I feel for these kids, because they want to throw strikes, they want to be in the game and be competitive. I totally get it. But the way you're throwing, that's not going to help you now or ever. So yeah, it's an interesting deal there.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 49:10

Let's go back to your career and, and making tough decisions for yourself, you know, that I think, was anything that you experienced, that would be a good lesson that we can learn from or in and or take to a leadership position in any field that you've had in your past?

Doug White: 49:32

That's a good question. The The one thing I did do while I was inside my career, is I did the best I could to not listen to what someone thought I had to do to grow my career. So for example, offseasons would come and I wanted to rest. And some coaches or management would say, Hey, I think you should go be a pitching coach in Venezuela, or you should go be a pitching coaching the winter league. And I just really didn't want to do it. I just inside me, I didn't want to so I listened to me, where most would say, Okay, do what you want to do. Like they did, they told me like, okay, but if the league if cuz one time in order, the organization actually asked me to go. And they're like, you know, the outside was like, Oh man, if you don't do that you never know what they could fire you, they could be mad at you, they could detonate it. And I was just like, but I don't want to go and it's my life, I'm living here. And it ended up just fine for me, I still was able to make it to the big leagues and, and I had my experience there. And so I would say for a young coach, you got to know who you are, and you still have to live your life, what's best for you. Just because you're in a position and you're trying to grow, doesn't mean you have to sacrifice who you are for the organization. In my opinion, that would make no sense. And that's not an organization you'd want to grow inside of Anyways, if that's how they're looking at their coaches.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 51:05

You know, you brought up a good point about that? And how do you find that, we're going to switch how you find the balance between data driven decisions and traditional coaching instincts.

Doug White: 51:16

Perfect. So that's the thing, none of what is available to you has to be said to anybody. Just go prepare yourself. How could you not look at the data, the data is telling you something you can't see with your eyes, because your brain can't upload millions of pitches. And you're you weren't available to watch all the games and memorize every single batter and how they reacted to those pitches. So in my opinion, analytically, these coaches that say it's so, so funny to me, these coaches that say, well, you're gonna make him a robot or done it. It's like, Duh, that's your job as a coach, to understand the relationship between you and a player, and what they can handle and what they can't just like a parent going to the field, you gotta understand how much can this kid take? Here? The parent, you got to have a little field there, right? So for me, why would you not do your due diligence and cover all the information, and then make an informed decision about how you approach your players. That's your job as a coach, if you're not doing that, in my opinion, you should go do something else. Because somebody's life is being taken care of here. And so if you don't, you know what I mean, if you can't step aside for somebody else, why are you coaching? That that would be my thought process. Brilliant.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:07

Fantastic. So Douglas, we're entering the end of the show with one of my favorite parts, and it's the rapid fire questions. And some of it has to do with what you do. And some of it has nothing to do with what you do. But we would love to have brief answers, but we always get hung up on along and tell tell me if you're ready to throw the first pitch. Tell me if you're ready. I'm ready. All right, my man. All right. Pitch number one, here we go. If you could choose any historical figure, to coach in the art of pitching, who would it be? And what would your first lesson be to them?

Doug White: 53:55

So the first thing that comes to my mind, I'm going to go Martin Luther King, because I just want to have a conversation with him. I want to know, what is going on that dude's body, mind and soul when he led that his his people in that like, I mean, like it's unbelievable what he did for his life. Inside of this world today, you don't I mean, that the, the what he took on a day to day basis, like he ended up risking his life, they took his life for what he did. So I would want to know more about him. So I'd be like, Okay, well, let's play a little catch. But really the catch is because I so I could have a conversation with him. So I don't know necessarily. If I'd ever get him on the mound. We just hopefully have some have a catch and then I would just talk to him all the time.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:47

I'll tell you that. That was out of left field no pun intended. I did not expect. That was great, man. Good. Shoot good. happened to be a big fan of Martin Luther King as well. All right. Right salute. Ready pitch number two, you had to switch roles with any player or coach on your team for a day, who would it be? And what would you do differently?

Doug White: 55:12

Oh, man, so I would have been Mike Trout for a day. Because I'd be the best player almost in the history, if not the history of the game, I would have stolen bags, I would have jumped over the fence, I would have hit bombs. Like, that's what I would have done. And I wouldn't have done anything differently. And this is why because, um, you know, I only was with him for one season. But in my opinion, Mike Trout was like, such a good dude. You know, when you when you when you think about the amount of money he created with that, you know, his last contract, like he deserves every penny of the contract, because of the way he was able to show up every day with that consistency and his attitude. So I wouldn't do anything different.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:07

Nice. All right, pitch number three. This is an interesting one. Imagine you're tasked with creating a new celebratory dance for pitchers after a perfect game. What would your signature move look like? Oh

Doug White: 56:22

my god. Well, that means I have to get up and do it. I'm not good enough. Have you seen that guy on the mound, do those first pitch where he's He's like, he's got the head dress on and something's going on. And he does like he throws it and he does a flip a full on flip, cartwheel flip deal. Like, I would just say that, like every pitcher after they do whatever they do. They could do some sort of amazing, like 360 Flip gyro thing with their body. That would be pretty cool. I definitely can't show you that because I I bumped into a whole lot of things right now. And I would hurt myself. Well,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:03

you did say your parents put you in dance class, you know, so we're gonna do some type of pure wet or something.

Doug White: 57:11

A little tap, a little tap dance off the mound with my heart.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:19

That's great. That's great. All right. Before, it's gonna wait for baseball for a moment. What's one hobby or activity you're passionate about? That your players would probably be surprised if they knew that.

Doug White: 57:33

Oh, you did this surprised? The if? Because you said the surprised part. I wrote a poetry book. So a friend of mine sent me yeah, my friend of mine sent me illustrations, she sent me her art. And if I was inspired, I would write the poem in the in the present moment. And then we did 30 of them. So there's 30 art pieces and 30 poems. And we put it in a book. And it's actually like we did this this within this last 12 months. We published it, and it's it's on a website. Come sit by me the book.com. Yeah, wow. Yeah, that was only because you said surprising. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:21

I would have never expected that one. Alright. Are you good? Are you good? Yeah. All right. Question number five. Last one, what's one pitching technique tip that you think every amateur pitcher overlooks? But could change their game dramatically? And I think we got them on this military. Yeah.

Doug White: 58:47

I would say you want to learn how to engage your entire body. In it, like when you go into your loading phase of the delivery, meaning the ankles, the knees, the hips, the spine, the shoulders, the the elbows, the wrist, there's something that should be happening together with all those things you should use if you want to see the most clean, powerful, beautiful deliveries. Everything is happening in unity in sync in its own way. You don't see the eyesores of something poking out are pushing out in an odd manner. That's what I would say. Yeah.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 59:36

Beautiful. And that, ladies and gentlemen doesn't come until you're gonna hit skeletal maturity until you get to be a little older athlete. So the youth only know how to flail and arm. They'll know how to gauge everything. So that's, that's a great tip. All right. All right, Doug goes we're gonna finish with this because I want this to be the last thing on people's ears and it will be a link in our industry. You have shown but you're developing holistic player performance out. Yeah. And I want you to fill in to listen to us what this is all about. So the floor is yours. Yeah.

Doug White: 1:00:12

Oh, man, I so appreciate this. I didn't know you guys are gonna do this. But so the company's called Soul integrated athletics. The process is organizations need assistance with helping their players grow as human beings and athletes. So it's very simple. The app covers three personas, the athlete is the first Persona, so the athlete can gain ownership of their own career, learn how to self evaluate, and learn how to grow as a human being in a player on and off the field. That's the first thing, okay. The second persona is the coach. We give communication opportunities inside of this tool inside of the app, where the coach and player can then discuss things the coach can send highlights can offer suggestions, goal settings, development practices, so that they can become a better unit. And then the player can start learning to ask better questions. And the third persona is the organization. We want the organization to learn not only how to treat their players, but that they care about their players, they want to show the players and the coaches, they actually care. And so this tool, because you're giving them wellbeing, and performance assistance, you're not only helping the player and the coach grow, but you're going to grow as an organization now because of this. And so there's two main outlets, wellbeing, performance, there's education and tools for wellbeing. And there's education and tools for performance. And the coolest thing about it is on the performance side, the organization is has a say in customizing and bringing in the information into the app, we do the heavy lifting, but we have a conversation, so we can navigate it. And so right now in this process to do this for sports organizations, I'm in the process of raising capital, we have a prototype, we have a pitch deck, we have a focus group have already done focus groups, we have professional athletes who have seen the prototype who've loved the product to love the idea who want to see it made. And we even have an amazing partner, who owns four professional soccer teams who will allow us to use his teams to pilot the app. The thing is, we need the actual MVP, not the prototype, right? Because you can't work with a prototype. So we need that funding that capital. And that's the process I'm in right now is okay, here we go. Can't start building until we get the Capitol. So as soon as I get that, we hit the ground running. And hopefully we do something for these organizations and for these athletes, that's never been done. That's different than the way you see things done inside the arena of sports. Yeah. Wow. Well, I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:22

imagine with these monster sized contracts that some of these baseball players get they can throw you a couple of coins here to get that thing moving right along.

Doug White: 1:03:32

Right. Just like one or two paychecks along the way, right. Yeah. Really? Oh, my

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:37

gosh, no. That's fantastic. Thank you so much. I tell you, Douglas, some of you, thank you. Oh, yeah, man. I you know, this is about helping people you know, and our listeners, whether they're into baseball or not, they can You're welcome. Yeah, they can use a lot of what you said as metaphors for life. And I and I love that. So thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah. You

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:04:03

know, Douglas, that was that was great. And thank you for helping us help these youth and given the parents something to think about and realize that a pros aren't doing it. So why should the youth so I really appreciate I really appreciate the word. So thank you for your for your time, and thank you for being on the show. It was fantastic. Yeah,

Doug White: 1:04:27

had a lot of fun. Thanks, guys. Thanks.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:32

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time.