The Crackin' Backs Podcast

Holistic Tips to keep your PET healthy- Dr. Sonja Friedbauer DVM

• Dr. Terry Weyman and Dr. Spencer Baron

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Join us for an insightful episode featuring Dr. Sonja Friedbauer, a holistic veterinarian with a passion for integrative pet care. Dr. Friedbauer, co-founder of Royal Palm Veterinary Hospital in Coral Springs, Florida, brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in combining Eastern and Western veterinary medicine. She is also a Certified Veterinary Acupuncturist and an advocate for holistic treatments, including herbal therapy and NAET (Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Techniques), to enhance the health and wellness of pets.

In this episode, we explore the core principles of holistic veterinary medicine and how it differs from conventional approaches. Dr. Friedbauer discusses the effectiveness of holistic treatments for chronic conditions like arthritis and skin disorders, offering insights into the use of acupuncture, herbal remedies, and other natural therapies. We'll delve into the controversial topics of flea and tick medications, the necessity of monthly heartworm preventatives, and the evolving science behind pet vaccinations.

We also touch on the rise of natural pet foods and the importance of individualized nutrition. Dr. Friedbauer shares her recommendations on the best diets for pets, comparing dry and wet foods, and provides strategies to improve pet health from the inside out. Additionally, she offers valuable advice on managing pet anxiety, particularly during stressful events like fireworks, and common behavioral cues that pet owners often misunderstand.

For more information about Dr. Friedbauer's work and holistic pet care, visit Royal Palm Veterinary Hospital and Roots Integrative Veterinary Care. Tune in to discover how you can transform your pet's health and well-being with holistic veterinary practices.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Welcome to today's episode where we dive into the world of Holistic Veterinary Medicine with Dr Sonja frebauer. You may be wondering, what does your pet have to do with our mission of our show? Well, we felt that our furry friends are all about mental health, therefore, we decided to help you discover the real differences between holistic and conventional pet care, explore the natural treatments for chronic conditions and unravel the truth about flea, tick and heartworm medications. We'll also discuss the best diets for your pet, strategies for managing anxiety, and the subtle cues our little and big best pet buddies, give that often, go unnoticed, get ready for an enlightening conversation that could transform your total approach to pet care. Oh. Dr. Sonia freebauer, I am so so truly happy to have you on the show today for more reasons than the audience probably believed. As a veterinarian, yes, as a holistic veterinarian, yes. But more importantly, you've been my friend since high school. Yep, and I can't you know that to me, that's priceless. And when I realized that you were, you know, working with animals, and the way you do it, I told Dr Terry. I go, Hey, man, we've had some interesting guests on veterinarian. And he goes, Well, what does that have to do with health and wellness and all that for the for the human? I go, well, it has everything to do with health, because we all find happiness and health in our animals, in our furry friends, and so we all have dogs and and probably some other animals at home too, other than our kids. But besides that, I wonder, welcome to the show, because I you may not call yourself a holistic vet, but after experiencing some of the remarkable things that you have done that are contrary to what mainstream veterinary medicine does, and watched my dog heal from from having like a what we what Dr Terry and I call foot drop in the human being was actually paw drop her. She had a pinched nerve, and you handled it with acupuncture and herbs. I mean, this woman rocks.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Dr Terry, so cool. So my pleasure to be here, and I truly love you. So I love you on the bottom of my heart for all the years of friendship, and you just make everyone feel good about themselves. Everyone in my office that when they saw Spencer, Dr Barron, they're like, Who is that guy? He just makes everyone feel good.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

We call him Lord Baron on the show, for a lot of reasons,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

moving right along before it gets really weird here. But hey, listen, I just want to ask you to start with, you know, Holistic Veterinary Medicine. You know, as I said, you may not call yourself that or but you certainly practice it and you do conventional stuff. So is it just a buzzword, or what is the difference? And how do you, you know, how do you feel the differences in treating so

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

there are many alternative therapies that veterinarians could choose to do, acupuncture, being one of them, chiropractic medicine. There are some veterinarians that do that, or some that will just refer to chiropractors if there's no local vet that does it, Chinese herbs, and you know, that kind of massage that the herbalists learn, like Tui Na, I don't practice that yet. And then I learned a little separate thing called nambuja pod Allergy Elimination Technique, which really is what took me down the path to alternative medicine. So holistic, I think is a great word for trying to treat the whole patient so they don't just come in with, Oh, my dog has a sore. Can you give me medicine for the sore? Or this ear is having a problem? Well, why does the ear have a problem and why does it keep coming back? Is what most vets don't learn to investigate. So I was lucky, because, in a way lucky. My children had many allergies. I didn't realize my husband and I did too, but after uncovering how to find that out and find out what's causing things, I, you know, got lucky enough that the kids got better, and now my patients get better. But in order to practice the thing called nabuja pod Allergy Elimination Technique, I had to become an acupuncture doctor, and then that just leads to the herbs and leads to the next thing and the next thing. So I feel like we should always keep learning and trying to expand our ability to help. So it's just more tools in your toolbox to take on some alternative therapy. P's, so I'm not completely like you said, holistic, but I don't really love vaccinating every animal the same way, with a million things all at one time every year. Why is that necessary? We get our vaccines as children, and I'm not against that, but then we don't keep getting them until we're 100 most of the time, although they try to encourage you to do the flu shot and this and that. I think sometimes it's healthier not to get all that toxin in your body. And people don't even know what they're putting in their body. I didn't even realize that some of the veterinary vaccines actually have thimerosal, you know, but basically mercury in them. Until recently, some client called and said, Hey, do you have vaccines without that? And I didn't even know it was an ingredient in animal vaccines, I had a heart attack. So now, you know, that's the next thing to change, because people really come thinking that without the vaccines, their animals will die, you know, and it's so ingrained in our society. But okay, fine, you know, get the core ones and all that, and then decide who is at risk. So I think a lot of veterinarians are more thinking that way now. So that's just a little thing, a little thing trying to move in that direction and trying to give treatments that don't hurt the pet further. Most of our ear medications cause deafness if they're abused. And I say abused because, you know, we as vets don't usually. We're not taught to investigate the cause. We're just taught to keep treating the symptoms. And I think a lot of human doctors are that way too, so you wind up hurting your patients in the long run. So that's why I feel lucky, that I was blessed with children that needed more and and I was frustrated nothing was working in the regular medication, you know, world. So my client said, Why don't you try this? And I didn't listen for about seven years, and after that, wow, you know, it opened up a whole beautiful world of and then what happens is people are drawn to that because they see it works. Some of them thought I was the Voodoo doctor. At first they would actually make these, you know, funny comments and but they keep coming back because it's uncovering the cause. So, you know, and it's different for every patient. So if one of them has an itch, it doesn't mean it's always fleas, or it's always food allergy or always grass. They're all different. You know, sometimes it's a pesticide, sometimes it's the vinegar the client thinks is good to clean the floors with. So, you know, another lady had she was in the business of essential oils. So her dog was exposed to like lavender and all these very strong fragrances all the time, and it was licking its skin off. And that was the buzz all of her beautiful natural things that she used to help people her dog was sensitive to. So, you know, it's, it's a matter of investigating and what works for one doesn't work for the other. So we do what's called kinesiology in our place. Basically, it's a, I know you guys are familiar, little muscle test to ask the body, is acupuncture helpful? Is, you know, are Chinese herbs helpful? Which antibiotic, if needed, is helpful? Is it okay to give this pet vaccines today? They may or may not be allergic to it, but maybe their body isn't going to do well that day. So we try. It doesn't always work perfectly. There are times when, you know, I don't get the right answer honestly. So then they'll come back the next time, and maybe we'll uncover it, it's and it's like peeling the layers of an onion. So, you know, maybe one time they need a little of this, and the next time they need a little of that. And that's how I like to work. I don't like to say, you know, every single patient is going to get this that comes in with a limp or, you know, radiographs, you know, if they can't put their foot on the ground, they probably need an X ray. But if they have a little limb, you know, maybe we're going to try something else before the client has to invest all that money and expose their pets radiation. Some people think that's a bad thing. I'm not thinking it's a great thing, but it's just a little bit supposedly, but it's still maybe not necessary. You know,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Dr Sonia, let me ask you, for those that will agree with you on the vaccination, the yearly vaccine schedule that probably the pharmaceutical companies created for you guys, but yeah, what were the can you share with them the alternatives, like doing titers, blood titers, they're still worried about.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

So unfortunately, I don't believe there's a titer for rabies vaccine, but most veterinarians have gone to an every three year, even if they're not alternative practitioners vaccine schedule, but definitely for distemper, Parvo, which is that, you know, four and one. Vaccine. Yeah, there are titers, and they are supposed to be, you know, proving that the patient has protection. And I feel like usually, in fact, I did on my own dog, once they've gone through that puppy series, you know, it might be two to five vaccines they get, and then one year later, most dogs are probably protected for life. So I don't see the need to keep doing that even every three years. The trick is it's a little bit more money to order a titer the blood test and make sure they're protected than it is to give them the $35 vaccine. So unfortunately, a lot of people are thinking along those lines. And don't, you know, have the means maybe to even do that, but you can do the muscle testing and ask if it's needed. That's not a scientific thing in a traditional western mind, but you can, is this a good thing to do for the pet? Is it needed? And you can use kinesiology in that way. And the brain knows everything is what we were taught in those classes, and all the information's here. Why are we sick? What can we do about it? It's just trying to get that information out that most of us aren't trained in, you know?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

So let me ask you, you know, for example, you I would like to share with the audience, using holistic care sometimes requires a little more patience than, you know, the immediate changes in a medication. And to give you an example, my my dog, I noticed when she would pee, there would be blood. And you know, of course, you're going to go, Oh, my God, what is that? And I looked it up, and it could be just a bladder infection. So I call Dr freebauer and I, you know, I bring my dog in, and what does she tell me to do but to get some cranberry pills? And I said, Oh, I'm totally in. And I did it and with no and no kidding, within, like, three days, gone, gone. So do you want to share some of those

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

amazed at your dog honestly? Because, you know, first of all, you have the owner who's, um, open to it, which is beautiful, and also, who's really not wanting to hurt the pet with giving some things that are going to kill the gut flora. And, you know, like antibiotics. I'm not against antibiotics, and most people don't have the patience to wait, you know, a week instead of 48 hours for the antibiotics to kick in. So, you know, and maybe it won't work in every single patient for some reason. Like, I've heard that you know, the D mannose, cranberry kind of combination will work for E coli, but I'm not sure it would work for other bacteria all the time. But why not try it before we give something? Well, if the dog's urinating in your house, people get very anxious about having an outcome that's better. So, but yeah, I don't feel that we always need to grab these big gun things and and chill it right away, make it better right away, because we're hurting the patient sometimes. So yeah, we I love that. I love that. Using D mannose cranberry for ear infections, there's a product called zymox, that's an enzyme that will help kill the bacteria and take out some of the, you know, bad stuff, yeast. But if you don't get to the cause again, it will never go away. And most of the times, thing on, things on dogs and cats that are head and neck, like, you know, itchiness around here, ear infections, even runny eyes, can be food allergy So, but people get frustrated because they'll try the next food and the next food, and it didn't work it out. Why? Well, all those foods you just used had the same one ingredient in there, or there are pets that are allergic to every single protein you could try, so you kind of really are stuck with just treating it and treating it and treating it and but if people have a little patience and an open mind, yeah, you can use safer things that work just as well a lot of times, you know. And the herbs, the Chinese herbs, I think your dog went on, it's not going to work like a non steroidal, anti inflammatory in one hour, but by the end of two weeks, you're addressing a lot of things in the body that might need to be addressed and trying to work on, you know, the underlying root of the problem. They say so like they have herbs that nourish tendons and ligaments and, you know, herbs that are anti inflammatory, but that's way less damaging to the kidneys and all that than these other medications, which maybe they need, if they broke their leg, they need something a little heavier, give them a little morphine, or whatever it is, get them through it, and then maybe use something more gentle and. You know, for the next five weeks, or whatever it is to heal. So that's my approach and outlook. But sometimes you have to do what the client wants, and it's not always patience, you know, yeah, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

that no. Thank you for for sharing that, because these are some of the common challenges that pet owners have. So I want to take you down the flea and tick medication route as well as the heartworm route. And you know, some of the unfortunate misconceptions that they may have the you know, immediate gratification versus the long term effects. Can you share with what your feelings are with flea and tick medications and heartworms?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

So I do sell those products. You know, we sell them in our practice, we have three doctors there, my husband, Dr Weiss and Dr harkby myself, and we all are a little different on these things. And I will have the clients that whose pet never goes outside, and you'll have the people selling the products that say, but does a mosquito never get in your house? Well, I'm not against the products. You know, it used to be that there was a lot of heartworm disease here in South Florida, where we live, and it was a bad disease. It still is a bad disease if your dog gets it and it's not addressed. I know some people that don't give any heartworm prevention, but they do a blood test twice a year, and if their dog were to come up positive, then they would do something to treat them. And the treatments have gotten less terrible that we used to use arsenic to treat heartworm disease in animals, and yeah. So there was something called coparciate, and it was supposed to go IV. If it went outside of the vein, it would rot the skin there, you know. So these were some very toxic treatments, and sometimes the damage was so bad already in the, you know, lungs and the heart and the other organs from having these little parasites in the body that, you know, it became a big deal. It years ago, it was every single day heartworm prevention, and now it's a monthly thing where they have these injections you give once every six months. That scared the heck out of me, and for some reason, there was a recall on that product when it first came out. I won't mention what it was, but I never used it, and I won't and so I'm not against again, you know, prevention. If you've got your dog outside running around on an acre of land most of the day and there's a swamp behind you, you know, maybe it's not a bad thing, but if you've got your little pocket pet in your house and you just take it out to Peter, it uses peepee pads in the house, why are we doing this? You know, if, especially if we're doing heartworm testing regularly and all that the heartworm medicine does have one benefit down here for a lot of pets that may be helpful, and that's that it also is an intestinal parasite Control and Prevention. And so again, if I have patients that come in and they're not down on it and they have diarrhea, we're going to deworm them. And even if I don't find worms, I'm going to deworm them, because you can't always find the worms. You know, you have to find the eggs, and if they're not reproducing, you won't find the eggs. So I'm not against those products, but my dog is not on either one. Why? I do take her for walks. She hangs out in my backyard. We definitely have mosquitoes. We do her heartworm test every year. She's 10. She hasn't yet developed heartworm disease. Sometimes she lays out on the porch for a couple hours. I get bitten up. I'm sure she's getting some bites. I'm not afraid of it. Am I more afraid of what the drug is doing to my dog? Yes, definitely, because she's a super sensitive individual, and it seems like every time I try to give her anything, she either pants all night and can't sleep or so she's on very minimal I've got something called a stream Z collar on her, which is a magnetic collar for arthritis that's been helping her. They came out with a monthly injectable for arthritis that a lot of people are wanting to use called librella. It's a monoclonal antibody. It's like a vaccine. It starts right. It's working great for some dogs. I used it on her twice. It did seem to help her, but she hasn't needed it again. So I'm not going to keep doing it every single month when I don't see her having trouble anymore. So there's a difference. Most people think they have to keep going and going. And if the dog is doing okay, the pharmaceutical company will tell you, don't let them get in that shape again. Give it every month. But it's kind of hard for me to accept that, even though it may have minimal outward side effects. I don't know that. And she's definitely a sensitive dog, you know, so I don't know. Did that help? I I'm not against the products flea, tick boy, the diseases that you could get, like Ehrlichia, which can cause bleeding problems, Lyme disease, depending where you live and you're. Dog's lifestyle. I'm not against those products, but, like I said, My dog's not on them. I am in a flea area, you know, whatever. I've put diatomaceous earth on my grass in the past, when I thought we were having a problem with that. And I look her over, you know, she gets bathed regularly, but you could miss it. So if she were to have a bleeding problem, it would be top on my mind, and I could give her medication for that. So I guess does that help? I I'm on the I don't think it's wrong to use it, but maybe some dogs don't need it.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

What about the collars, the flea and tick collars?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

So the old ones, like hearts and atoms, and not to say, you know, bad mouth anyone, they pretty much cover from your neck to your head and not the rear end very well. But there are newer ones, you know, that are supposed to be really effective, and I think they are. So if you're in a heavily wooded area in Connecticut where there's Lyme disease, maybe you put it on for that hour you're outside, and then I would take it off, you know, because, yeah, these are bad diseases for sure, yeah, and I've seen people with them have pretty bad problems too. So I don't know if there are alternative things to get rid of those things. But the alternative human practitioners that I know who actually have like Lyme disease, I haven't heard that they were able to get rid of it. So maybe those things need some prevention. When you're in the area where there's a problem, the ticks are a big problem. Interesting thing in South Florida, I read, we don't seem to have Lyme disease down here, naturally, they think that we have it. Yeah, so because we have lizards, and the ticks feed on lizards, somehow the lizards blood clears the Lyme This is something I read. I'm not 100% sure it's real, but it's a theory they have that maybe that's why we don't have naturally occurring line. We have people, you know, coming down from the Northeast with it here, but not naturally occurring itself.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I'll send you, yeah, I'll send you some lizards. Terry, oh, we

Dr. Terry Weyman:

have lizards. We just have different ones.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Very, very interesting. So

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

I don't know, maybe sharing too much some things that are not really definitely proven, you know, like whether or not so the lizards are doing that for

Dr. Spencer Baron:

fleas and ticks. Now that you brought this conversation up. I'm thinking, there's, there was the internal, you know, the the pills that they can chew, the chewables. There's, there was the flea collar. And then there was also that ointment that I had used. It's sometimes that you put on the nape of the neck. Yeah, yeah. So do you think,

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Well, okay, so we have some animals, like I said, with the kinesiology, they test sensitive to all of the internal flea tick products that I could give them, or, you know, have them buy online. So I think in those cases, and if they're having problems, because the fleas really do bother a lot of patients, the topical is a good choice, and it's not going in their body. It's okay. There's different ones. One of the topicals just stays in the sebaceous glands. It keeps on being secreted from the hair follicle for a month, and then they have to reapply it. Some of the others do get absorbed into the bloodstream, and then it comes back out, and that's how it also can be a heartworm medication and kill the baby heartworms. And in addition, it can help with fleas and ticks. So it used to be that these animals suffered. I I wasn't a vet yet, in the days when you would have 30 dogs getting flea and tick baths in a day with terrible poison put on them, you know, the dips that we put on the dogs, and they were miserable, and they were living on steroids and topical things. And so these preventions have really helped the dogs that have allergy in the technique that I do, the n, a, e, t, you can actually treat them for allergies to the fleas. And I did that with my own dog, and it is said by Nate practitioners that when you do that, the fleas aren't even interested in the individual. I don't see fleas on my dog, and I don't put stuff on her, and I treated her for allergy to the fleas, which she did have them when she was a puppy. She had a bunch of them initially. I can't prove that that's why, but it's interesting. It's interesting.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

So that's fascinating. I didn't realize that because we had a doctor in my office, it was a Nate practitioner for a long time, and I had no idea that it's transformed into the veterinarian world. So that's kind of cool.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Yeah, I think way back when Dr naboja pad first started, she. Taught a few veterinarians. They taught each other, and then it kind of faded out. I don't know why. The only reason I did it was because I went and saw my kids get so much better, and it was a miracle. My younger son loves ice cream. He could not eat ice cream or milk products without being so sick. He could eat anything, you know, and it wasn't, oh well, he outgrew it. No, it was day and night. She treated him for ice cream, said, or milk. Go eat ice cream. I was having a heart attack. My husband and I were watching him take a bite of ice cream, thinking, Oh, my God, he's going to be a sick all night. No, nothing cool, day and night. Yeah, it wasn't five years later, you know, and I said to the practitioner, can I learn that my patients need that? She said, why not? So I went. I was the only veterinarian in the class. I'm the only one who's an instructor for an eight in the world. And I'm not trying to pat myself. It's just that I wanted to be good at it, and I do help humanate practitioners learn to do kinesiology, because most of us are not chiropractors like you guys, so they don't know how. And I feel really happy about it. It's the best thing I could have ever done. That's amazing.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Yeah, we do see a lot of because we get a lot of limes out here, so we do see a lot of the flea and tick stuff, and in the shampoos and and the drops, and a lot of people are don't want to put a pill in in their dog for obvious reasons, and and so what's your thoughts on some of the latest and the newest stuff out there for a great prevention For the flea and ticks, whether it's a drop or a shampoo. So

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

shampoo not good. It's gonna kill what's on them. Maybe it'll have a residual effect of a day or two. It's okay, but it's not gonna prevent you know, that's the thing. I don't have a problem with using collars, like I said, if you go out, but I don't, I don't like the idea of leaving them on 24/7 you know, to prevent the ticks, it's important. I know some clients of mine have concocted homeopathic things, and I don't remember all the ingredients, to be honest with you. And I can't really promote it in my practice, because then if someone's animal gets one of these, of these diseases from a tick, they're going to say, Oh, you told me this was okay. But I know that if you look it up online, there are little essential oils and different things that you can spray on the pets. And these clients of mine that are using it do not have fleas or ticks on their dogs. So I know there are things that are used. Promoting them is difficult, because then, like I said, I'm responsible if somehow the animal gets sick. So I we in our office do carry a few things that I like. I like the product interceptor for heartworm prevention because it covers a broad spectrum of intestinal parasites. Doesn't cover tapeworms, which they get from fleas. So now the newer ones, which do, they're all in one, they do fleas, tick, heartworm, intestinal parasites, and they incorporate also tapeworm there, you know, simparica, and you know, the other one is, can't even think right now, and I think it's Trifexis, which we don't have in our office. They work if you need it. If you're in an area with these parasites and you don't feel like you can get your property under control without I don't put pesticide in my yard. Okay? I use diatomaceous earth. It's a pesticide, but it's a more natural, not supposed to be toxic. And I don't do it all the time. I won't let the extermination exterminator come in my yard. My dog hangs out there. I wouldn't put my baby in a playpen full of poison. So I'm against that. And they'll tell you, Oh, it's fine. It's safe. Really, I don't think so. I've read that even the product we used to use topically all the time, thithernal, which they use to kill bugs in your house. Now, is feminizing? Is that not toxic if you're exposed to too much of it, that's what I had read at one point in time. So the drug companies, the exterminators, they're going to tell you, it's fine. You don't even have to keep your dog out of the house. I don't believe it, so you know, that's me, but you can bring a Christmas tree in your house, and it could be having ticks on it, if people you know do that, and you just brought these things in that could be carrying things. Not every tick or every flea has a has a disease, but some do so it depends where you live and the risk. And if I was in one of these high risk areas like Connecticut, and my dog wanted to hang out in the woods. I put a collar on her. It's not poison in her body staying there. It's a repellent, and it'll kill the ticks that get on them. So what else I don't know? Yeah, my mother brought a little machine in our house that had a little red light that blinked, and someone told her that got rid of fleas. I don't know what it was, but her dog never had fleas. I have no idea what that was. So

Dr. Terry Weyman:

you brought up a good point, and that's geographic. So you know, you're gonna have sus in Florida compared to stuff in the Pacific Northwest versus the Midwest, versus the south versus the North. What are some ways that people can listening to show they're all over even we have listeners in Europe and all that. How does people find you know, you go online and you buy generic stuff that's sold to the world. How do you find stuff that's good for your area?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Yeah, that's I think you have to seek out the advice of your vet, to a degree, you know what I'm saying in your area, and find out what they find is working. Because I have heard that in Australia, they give these flea products that are labeled for monthly every two weeks, the ticks are that bad and the diseases are that bad there. So they they're having a very big challenge to keep the ticks under control and off the pets. They usually don't kill the dog, per se, like I have in Fire Island. Once I saw a cat that did not have a spot of skin, that didn't have a tick on it. It was obviously a stray. It was heart so sad. You couldn't touch that cat. He was outside, little kitty. So if you have something like that, and you don't do something about it, the animals suffering, you know, and they're going to possibly get Lyme disease. Lyme disease does happen in cats too, by the way, it's not just people and dogs, so I don't want to be completely against those things. But like I said, I haven't seen the need in my own dog. And here I am in South Florida. I don't want to brag, I'm lucky, and I'm not spraying my yard. My neighbors probably all spray. Probably I see the little sign everywhere for, you know, exterminate or don't go on the grass. But yeah, so we've been a little bit lucky with that. But yeah, I would, I mean, I like I said, I think most of those products now are good. Most all of them, if you want something that works faster, the oral ones will work a couple hours faster than the topical ones. If I had to do something for my dog, I'd probably use a topical because it's not going into her body. And there are some animals that start having seizures after you use certain products, you know, and I don't want to name them, but they're definitely it's out there, if you look online, you know, flea tick products that cause seizures some. Sometimes it sets them off if they're sensitive, and that's then the vet feels terrible, but they're trying. They all vets have the intention, I think, the good intention of protecting the pet. I do. I believe that it's just that some of the products do hurt the pets, and vaccines definitely have hurt pets for sure.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Interesting, yeah, I got, I'm hearing some of the stuff also that the veterinarian is kind of catching up to some of the holistic thoughts of humans, and we're starting to realize that animals are just as sensitive as humans and and now you're seeing a lot about diet. So, you know, when we were kids, it was calcan in a can, and it was dried or dry dog food, right? And now you're seeing all these commercials, these Instagram stuff about farmers and pet and all these, you know, go to Costco and you can get, you know, healthy, you know, food for pets. What's your thoughts on the change of attitude? Is it a marketing ploy? Are people, you know, good businesses getting now there's franchises that are natural dog food stuff. What's your thoughts on food? Because, you know, the stomach and the floor is so important. So what's your thoughts on food? True.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

I So, you know, coming out of vet school, you know, I got, let's see,$1,000 grant from Purina because I had good grades or whatever, towards my expenses. And then we are given free samples to give to our clients from the big pet food companies to get the puppies started on it and all, and you get a little bit brainwashed. So that was 30 years ago into thinking that, wow. You know, I'm recommending the very best thing. They show you the videos of their feeding trials, and they've got however many dogs there and how they grew, and they, you know, seem to have shiny coats and all this stuff, and so we're really brainwashed. And I'm not trying to bad mouth these companies. They do their best. They do all kinds of research on the nutrition and what's needed. Many years ago, cats were going blind from eating Nine Lives. Don't want to knock the company, but it was lacking taurine. And cats are obligate. They need, we all need to. Boring as, you know, carnivores or whatever. And without that, they were going blind so and they were developing heart disease. So nine lives figured that out. They've got it in there. Now all these pet food companies are really trying to do a good job, I believe. But when I took the acupuncture training, our teacher, who was really smart guy from China who studied there, and, you know, teaches people from all over the world. Said, if you've got a skin problem, dry dog food is not the thing you want to give that that dog. And so he's a veterinary acupuncture Doctor training people from all over the world. Great guy. Doctor. Chee xi, sorry, I can never say his name. Anyway, he's awesome, and he advocated for adding fresh vegetables and, you know, or home cooked food. So I'm really excited when people do that. I am a little nervous about people preparing their own food and not knowing how many minerals, how what's the proportion of fat to, you know, protein to carbohydrate to all these other things. So there's a company online. People can go on and it's balance it.com and they can actually send you the mineral supplement to add to what you're trying to cook. And they might give you a little guidance. Basically, off the top of my head, it's about a 5050, ratio of carbs to, you know, protein. And then, just to know when animals do come down with something like cancer, even the oncologists are saying that grains are not the best thing, okay, for cancer, get them on grain free. But then there was a big study that said, like 500 dogs that had heart disease were on a grain free diet. So now there's this huge fear and scare about grain free diets, but also there were 500 dogs that were not on grain free diet, that were not the certain breed that was in that study that got heart disease, and they were not on grain free so I'm kind of like always telling people, Look, your dog is allergic to corn and rice and wheat, and so I can try to correct that. But in the meantime, maybe go on a grain free and I'm going to tell you about this study so you can be informed. But you can buy taurine as a supplement on you know, you can put your pets on probiotics to support their gut. And I don't see any harm in that. I can't see that being a bad thing. A multivitamin, as long as you read the ingredients, don't let it be one with artificial this and artificial that. And you know, people are very careful with what they eat and what they give their children. I think you should be the same for your pet. I'd like my kid to eat more green things. I have a dog that didn't learn that as a as a puppy, unfortunately, practice what I preach in that respect. She's terrible. But

Dr. Terry Weyman:

what are, what are some human foods that are bad for pets? You know, we've heard some too much broccoli or obviously some other stuff can be bad. Are there any things you see that humans are making mistakes when it comes to this farm fresh food?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

No, I think most people that are doing that kind of thing are knowledgeable and researching and, you know, smart, concerned. Unfortunately, I had a client that was feeding her dog grapes for years, and her dog died of kidney failure, and I believe it was from the grapes. I never knew she was giving the dog that fresh onion and garlic can cause bleeding, you know. So I wouldn't do too much of that, especially not not raw, you know. You do have to be careful with chocolate. You don't want dogs and cats to get that most people know, and they love marijuana. So if you have marijuana in your house, do not leave it where the dog can get it, or I'm going to have to take care of them for that. Yeah, I've heard that, yeah. And, I mean, you know other substances too. They don't know what they're chewing on, and they'll eat it. Yeah, I've had more than one person not want to tell me, or me to tell their wife what they tell me that the dog got into because they were partying and didn't keep it away from the dog. Yeah, you have to really be careful with that stuff. But mostly the things I can think of that happen a lot, you know, are chocolate and you know, you have to be careful with grapes. We have a big poster in our office for people to look at, to try to be careful with that stuff. Um, I would say, if it's not good for you, don't give it to the dog. Broccoli. I don't, I don't see too many people giving that to their dogs. Honestly, a little a few people do, but like, you know, they'll do green beans, carrots, peas, and that's one thing in the dog food that they are advocating, if you're going to buy a dog food, like a dry food or something, not to have peas as one of the first main ingredients. So the people that are saying don't do grain free, most of those foods do have peas or lentils right after the chicken or. Whatever it is. And so that means there's a large percentage of that there. So they're, you know, advocating maybe do something else, like sweet potato or whatever it is. And if I had a choice for myself, sweet potato or white potato, I'd probably pick sweet potato. So if people can just think that way more, what? What do I do? What is going to be better for me, it's probably also better for the dog. You know, in general,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I have a very odd approach. I read a book maybe 30 years ago called Run, Spot Run, and it was, it was really a guy depicting the how bad dog food, the evolution of dog food and how bad it used to really be. It was, you know, it was all this byproduct, you know, you know, chicken feet and things like that. I mean, just Yeah, it was horrible, you know. And, and there was no, there was not, you know, there are no restrictions, you know, cleanliness and, you know, laws and things like that that would enforce it, the dog food industry. And yes, it's come a long way, but ever since then, I did something so different. It was always this belief that if you fed your dog some a different food, they would be sick and vomit and all that stuff, and have diarrhea and and I, and I thought to myself, if I ate, if I ate the same thing every day of my life, and then switched just for one day to something else, I would be sick and vomit and, you know, so I buy only five pound bags of food, and I change it. Moment she's done with that food. I go on to a completely different food. And I circle and I I mean, and I go way different. I'll go like salmon, I'll go chicken, I'll go beef, I'll go and then, and then different brands and everything like that. And I mean, I don't know if this is the testimonial, but my, my, my dog that you never met was he lasted 20 years. That's great, 20 years. And then my, and this, this dog, if it's a rare breed, but if, if you look it up, Bucha, it's related to the Swiss mountain dog, and their lifespan is, is listed as eight years. She's she's on 14 years right now. So thanks to you, she doesn't walk too funny.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

No, I, I have heard that in people too, that if you keep eating the same thing over and over and over, sometimes you can develop a allergy to it, or sensitivity. And so it is a theory, and it is a way to try to keep them healthy. Is switching. And I've had clients that did that, did that, and it works for a lot of animals, I think, but I've had some that it wouldn't probably work for, just because some animals, you know, they don't do well if you take them off there, and like you said, maybe it's because they've been eating it for five years, I don't know. But even with a gradual introduction, there are some animals. So I think it's really individual. And one thing I didn't say about, you know, things not to feed your pet too much of when I was a kid, my mom would give the dog the fat from the steak or whatever that we didn't eat, or the chicken fat, you know, the skin. That's a no, no, your dog will not do well with the fat. That's pancreatitis, waiting for the vet to fix or try to treat, and diabetes down the line. You know, a lot of people don't realize these very high fat foods that taste good like you're I don't want to say, I'll, I'll refrain from saying the names of the foods, but you can even see the fat when you open the can. These globs of white stuff are in there. Those are not good for your dog, you know? And what happens is, they might not actually have the symptoms, you know, the vomiting, diarrhea, like pancreatitis, but you can have this low level inflammation the pancreas all the time. And dogs don't do well with a lot of fat, generally, and you it's just smoldering. Well, guess what? Eventually the pancreas is going to stop making insulin. It's been inflamed over the years, over the years, and that's where I think some of our diabetics come from. Is too high in fat foods, so I don't know. I think you, you've done great with your dog, and I do think it's a thing. I've read books too for humans that have obesity that if they switch out the nutrition in their their diets. Sometimes that there, I read one book that said that obesity was from food allergy, and that, if you you know it was one of the techniques the man talked about was switching out the foods and not always eating the same thing. So I think it's a thing, and it's it's a real thing for dogs, probably too most dogs, but you're going to have your few. Yeah,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

I have a very selfish question. Of course. I have, shush, I have, I have two golden retrievers, and I want them to live to 20 years old, like Spencer's dog. What in for that breed? What. What are some recommendation recommendations you have when it comes to food? Because I know they can be so very sensitive to different foods and different like chicken and different food, skin stuff. What's your recommendations for the best breed, golden tree?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Tell you five different retrievers, five different diets. All right? I don't there's a book, and I cannot remember the guy's name who wrote it. It's something about cancer care, animal cancer care, okay, something like that. In the middle of that book, he actually has a recipe for dogs that already have cancer. Okay, why shouldn't we put the dogs on that food ahead of time? It's got your really good fish oil in it. It's a, you know, reduced grain, it's high vegetables, it's it's the exact proportions. And he did that with the guidance of an oncologist, or more than one. And he's, you know, he was his pet owner whose dog had cancer. Said, Why isn't there anything else besides chemo and radiation for my dog? What is this? Why is that all you have? And so that made him investigate. And so that book, and I wish I could remember the name off top of my head, but it's something about animal care, cancer care. It's a great book if you want to find a recipe that I think might pretty much be a really, really good thing for most dogs to eat, because why not prevent it absolutely? And it's actually, it's really, definitely cooking for your dog, but he gives you the exact amounts. So in my view, you know how to do Kinesiology. You expose your pet to that food, put it next to them and see if the muscle test goes weak. You got your answer? Interesting, right? Interesting. Yeah, you guys have a huge advantage, because you have a skill maybe most people don't have that they don't have a vet near them that could help them find it. But really you could, you could find out what is the best thing for my dog. Is it A, B or C, and you muscle test and you're gonna know

Dr. Terry Weyman:

that problem. The problem with my dog is, if I put food next to him to try and muscle test them, he's he, he's like a vacuum cleaner, I can't even get him near the food the test and where, where he went, I went. It'd be like, one dog is motivated by, you know, toys, the other one is totally food. And if I put food even near him, he'd be like, Oh, it's gone. I'm like, Yeah, I didn't even get my muscle testing in. So I have another question. You see, wait, can I? Can I ask you about that, yeah, yeah, please, yeah.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

You could either put it in like a little glass baby food jar with a lid, so you won't really smell it, okay, and put that near him, because the glass is porous. Or you could go through a surrogate, have your wife or child or whoever's your friend, hold the food,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

and he would, he would eat her harm arm off. So the surrogate, he would just go right after the surrogate, and he probably would break the jar to get into the food. So I have another I do have another question, treats. You see people using all these treats, and I know somebody that will like, if the dog just does anything, treat, treat, treat, and they'll give, like, a whole bag of treats in a day. I mean, they over treat their dog. And what's your thoughts on treats for train? Because a lot of them use them for training for just because, as humans, we all you're so cute here. Have a treat. What's your thoughts on treats biggest

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

cause of obesity? I I'll have people come in and swear they're only feeding their dog this or that, and I'm looking at this poor thing that's really, really like a, you know, a coffee table shape and the waist, and I'm just sad for the dogs. And then the husband or wife who's over in the corner trying to be quiet will finally say, oh, no, he also gives 10 of these a day. I don't want to say the names of these treats that are very high fat, but they're the most common ones that people choose, and they're in the shape of a bone. I'm not going to say, okay, milk bone, pepperoni. Yeah, you want to kill your dog. You want to have a diabetic keep feeding them all these high fat things. And, no, there are some beautiful, really good quality. Sounds gross, but they're like dehydrated, real meat, you know, dehydrated lung and liver and and the dogs love them and or give a carrot, give a find what they like. Besides that, you know, dogs just want to crunch something. They just want you to acknowledge that they did something. They peed outside petal, you know, Oh, good. Whatever they it doesn't always have to be food. So. Yeah, I don't know. I feel we kill our pets. The worst thing we do is to overfeed them and feed them bad food. It's the worst thing.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

We would like to thank Stark roast for making the best organic coffee and supporting our efforts to keep you healthy and happy. Click on the link to start enjoying your fresh roast today. Let me ask you I actually read the other day I started reading the labels of some of the treats. I am blown away that the first ingredient is sugar. How is that possible? Terrible.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Terrible. We actually had one patient who was a new diabetic at like, age 15, which we don't really see that too often. Usually they're four or five. They had just started a new treat high sugar, took them off the treat, didn't need insulin. He would have gotten treated with insulin. And it was just questions, did you change anything, you know? Because it was odd, why this old dog suddenly become diabetic? Weird, and it was the treat for sure. That's very important. Very, extremely important.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Yeah, I was blown away when I saw why would there be sugar in a tree? Did do dogs favor?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Makes them want more, makes them beg for it. They get a Why

Dr. Terry Weyman:

do humans like sugar? It's the same thing. Why do we give kids like candy when they do good, you know? So I think it's the same thing. You know? I'm a I want to switch gears a little bit, but on another topic that I get asked all the time, and I'm not a vet anxiety, and especially after July, the fireworks, whenever we have events with fireworks, these poor animals, and then I've heard, well, don't coddle your pet. Don't don't hug them. Let them find their own source of comfort, whether it's under a bed or in the bathroom. I've heard the thunder vests. I've heard giving them CBD. You know, I've heard everything. So what's your thoughts on anxiety, especially with the loud bangs? Oh, boy.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Sort of all of the above. If the thunder shirt helps, which I think it helps this much for some pets. If so, I speak to a behaviorist all the time. She's a veterinarian with, like, higher degree than me, and in veterinary behavior and Wolf psychology and all that, she's amazing. And she tells me, yeah, give them a cold, dark place. It might be on the side of your toilet, and something to lick, because when dogs lick things that does something to the mind to soothe them. So if you can give them something to lick on that they enjoy, like what? So again, kind of might depend on the dog, but they make some toys that actually have a hole, so you can put something in there for them to get. So maybe it's peanut butter, you know, a piece of chicken, or sugar free peanut butter, if they like that. Or, you know, you can try those kinds of things, something though. Or maybe I can't think of something somewhat hard that they like to lick. A dental kind of treat. You know, there are these. There are some treats called yummy combs, and I haven't looked at the ingredients in them, but my dog likes to carry that around with her and periodically lick it, or whatever. Licking is a way for them to self soothe now, CBD, I've had some clients use it. You have to be careful with the company. It needs to be a company that certifies that there's no pesticides, and that it doesn't have THC, and that it's, you know, actually got what it says in it. And there are some companies that are good that say that, and I don't remember off the top of my head, but definitely you can find that information. And also, so there are some products online that have theanine and some other natural ingredients, and I can't see any harm in trying those, and I have been recommending them lately to my clients. I go on online, on whatever website, chewy or Amazon, and I look up holistic products for pets with anxiety. And I haven't gotten a lot of feedback yet, but I'm seeing some products that look really good, that you know if you see theanine in there, and they'll have some other products you'll be familiar with once you see it. They're all natural. There are some Chinese herbs. I didn't find that those help those pets very much. I just didn't. So I gave up on the Chinese herb part. But I do like those products with the other things I my dog, I feel putting a shirt on her. Also, if you rub behind the ears of your dog or press, that's a natural calming point, okay? And anywhere down the midline of the back where you can find a space, you know, like between the shoulder blades on the dog, or between the hips, there's a hole. Those are calming points. That whole meridian. It's an acupuncture. Meridian, you know, the Governing Vessel, it's called, or the do channel, that those are all calming points. So when my dog is stressed, sometimes I'll just stick my fingers in those holes and hold them there for 15 minutes, even if you can only do 20 seconds. It's better than nothing. Or the dogs that come in that are anxious. The other thing, and I can't remember the name of the book, but it was, it talked about calming signals in dogs, and if you fake yawn, you'll see them relax. And I've done it. I've done it in a in an exam room with someone's dog that was shaking and nervous, and all of us that were in the room, the two clients and my tech and I started yawning, and the dog relaxed. And I know that sounds really weird, and I haven't tried it for the thunderstorm thing yet. I haven't told anyone about it, but it did work on that one patient in the room. I guess I had just read the book and we tried it, I don't know, but there

Dr. Spencer Baron:

are you brought up an interesting comment that my brother told me about, that people often put their human characteristics or behaviors and they interpreted the dog feeling the same way. I think they call it anthropomorphizing or something, and that is almost that could be a problem? You know, you think your dog is this or that and they're really not, right? Yes, that's what you're thinking. Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

I agree. I It's funny because, well, it's funny and it's not. Animals don't fake things. Okay? So that's one thing I'd like people to know I had a young girl come in a few weeks ago and she thought her dog was faking a cough for attention for three months, and the dog had heart failure. Oh, Jesus, sorry, yeah, I don't I'm just saying like, and I've heard it over and over, oh, she just wants attention. She's just licking because she wants attention. I'm like, No, she's itchy. She's coughing because we need to do a chest X ray. She might have a big heart, she might have asthma, she might have cancer in there. We need to do a chest X ray. There are times when conventional medicine is really helpful. My kinesiology might give me the right answer, but I can't see in that chest, you know, I can. If it's bad enough, I'm going to hear heart murmur crackles in the lungs, things like that. But really, most vets aren't just trying to rip people off by getting more information. It's expensive, though. I highly recommend pet health insurance for anyone who could do it, because just like in human medicine, the cost of everything are going up so crazy. And there's so many companies to choose from now there's, there's at least 20 companies out there. A couple of them have no pre existing. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to advocate. I'm just saying those people that have that they're not worried about. If the X ray is this much money, they say, sure, take care of it, do it, you know, and it's needed sometimes. Anyway, I didn't mean to say a sad thing, but not fake illness. If they limp, they hurt. If they lick, there's either pain or itch or it could be anxiety. They'll lick like a spot on the front leg if they're having anxiety, boredom, maybe, but I think a lot of times it's allergy or something else.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Are there common cues that our pets show that most owners misunderstand, similar to the cough thing?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

So, yeah, um, it's every, every day, every day, someone comes in and, you know, the animal kept going in and out of the litter box, and they didn't realize that they could not get the urine out. You know, every day it's something like that. It most vets will be happy if you just call to say, oh, yeah, that is something you need to get in here for. You know, limping animals so common, and people will sometimes Wait, but like your friend's dog, it was a cancer, you know, and we don't know until we take a look. Sometimes we can't see what's going on on the outside, and sometimes we're not going to get an answer. If it's a soft tissue thing, they sprained a ligament, whatever, that's going to be hard to figure it out for us. You guys probably find it out right away. But, you know, those things will get better with a little bit of medical intervention or acupuncture or something like that. So, but when it's a more serious thing, it's not gonna go away with these things, you know? So, yeah, every day

Dr. Spencer Baron:

we we we are getting ready to wrap up, and I have, there's no this is our favorite part of of all our podcasts. It's called the rapid fire questions. I know you're you're you're smart and you're quick on your feet. So I'm going to ask five questions at which you can, you have to give brief answers. Two right.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Okay. Are you ready?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I'm ready. All right, here we go. Question number one, what is the most unusual pet you've ever been asked to work with? And what was the condition? Oh, no.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Okay, so I don't do every single breed, but I worked with a ferret that had swallowed a piece of those tubings that hold your eyeglasses in place, and when I felt the thing in his intestine, he bit me, and I didn't know what to do about it. So he's just hanging on my finger. That's all I got. I didn't know how to get him off. All you do is scrap him, but I didn't know, and I just sat there bleeding, but it's okay. I don't do parents anymore.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Oh, wow. Is so cool. I could just see her just hanging with me. How many i How many pets do you own?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Only one right now.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

She's Oh, right now,

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

she's the queen. Yeah, we used to have a bunch of cats in my house because my mom passed away and we inherited hers plus ours. They seemed easier. You know, you go to work, you come home. They had their litter box, their food, whatever. You don't have to walk them, but we just have the one dog. If I had someone else taken care of everything. I'd love to have more, but we're at work all day. She can come with us. Sometimes she's it, yeah, and then the child who's not anymore.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I admire the fact that you can restrain from taking on every dog and cat. Yeah, your place?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Well, sometimes we have a few living in the hospital, so we do have,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

there you go. Question number three, what is your fate? Here's a good one. What's your favorite movie that has a pet in it? Like, like Old Yeller, old yellers from our time.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

That's hard, isn't it? I this is silly, but I used to love the incredible Mr. Talking Ed, it's old, yes, it was a horse.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Oh yeah, that was a great one. Yeah, for all you people listening, go watch Mr. Ed, you'll find it on something, but Oh, it's great. Black and White, probably, yeah. Probably is, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I forgot about that. It's a good one, yeah, all right. Question number four, best chew toy that will last any thoughts on that?

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Uh, no, they, yeah, none of them last long enough. No, I, I kind of like those rope toys with knots with like they usually have other things on them too, River and all the I don't know, they keep them busy for a while. If they like it. It's it's very hard. That's very hard. Our

Dr. Terry Weyman:

dogs will cheer those rope toys, but then we gotta get the string out of them so it doesn't get in their intestines. Yeah. Okay, never

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

mind. Yeah. That's a hard one.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Uh, each dog. Last question, question number five, last question, what do you do when you are not working that makes that puts a smile on your face.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

Oh, wow. Huh. Okay, so I like to read books about weird things like Joe Dispenza and books about Arcturians, which are being supposedly here watching over us. And one of them is called the Arcturian anthology or something, and you'll be blown away if you read it. And I like to just hang out and look at the birds that are flying in and out. Around my house, there's woodpeckers and I don't know even the insects are cool. I watched an orb weaver spider the other day come down from the tree and go in the grass. I find it therapy, you know. So the beach is my favorite place in the world, and I can't do the sun anymore, but the beach is heaven.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Oh, that's great. You know, aside from Joe Dispenza being a prolific motivational speaker and inspiring intellect, he's a chiropractor. So

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

funny, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah. Wasn't he paralyzed? I think he was paralyzed. Yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

he got my spinal cord injury that he rehabbed himself. Great, great, great bunch of books. Thank you so much.

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

I loved it.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

It was

Dr. Spencer Baron:

a pleasure having you. There was so much information that people are probably so impressed

Dr. Terry Weyman:

with so much. Thank

Dr. Sonja Friedbauer:

you too, and good luck with your golden retards.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

I will thank you. Oh, I love them. They're the best. All right, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on a. Instagram at cracking backs podcast, catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.