Revolutionizing Recovery: How Dr. John Pecora is Using Cutting-Edge Tech to Heal Athletes Faster

In this exciting episode of the Crackin' Backs Podcast, we welcome Dr. John Pecora, an expert in sports medicine and advanced medical technology. Dr. Pecora is closely involved with NeuX Technologies, a company at the forefront of developing innovative tools designed to enhance patient outcomes and revolutionize how healthcare providers approach recovery and rehabilitation.

Throughout this episode, Dr. Pecora shares his insights on the importance of soft tissue in athlete injury recovery and how advanced technology can transform muscles that feel like "beef jerky" into smooth, flexible "filet." He also addresses one of the most critical challenges in healthcare: how to determine which new technologies are truly effective and which are just passing fads. Dr. Pecora has extensive experience with various techniques and modalities, and he provides his expert opinion on how to assess what really works in a clinical setting.

Listeners will learn about the cutting-edge innovations NeuX Technologies is bringing to the table and how Dr. Pecora sees technology continuing to revolutionize sports medicine in the years to come. From overcoming challenges in integrating new tech into clinical practice to the future of injury recovery, this episode is packed with valuable insights for healthcare providers, athletes, and anyone interested in the future of medical technology.

Key Topics:

• Advanced medical technologies transforming patient outcomes
• The role of soft tissue in athlete recovery
• Evaluating new technologies: separating the effective from the fads
• Dr. Pecora's experience with integrating new tech into clinical practice
• Future trends in sports medicine and rehabilitation

Want more from Dr. John Pecora?
For more information on his services and expertise, visit NeuX Technologies or Sprt Therapy information connect with Dr. Pecora directly for inquiries and consultations.

Don't miss this fascinating conversation with one of the leading voices in sports medicine and advanced technology!

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

John, welcome to the cracking backs Podcast. Today we're thrilled to have Dr John Pecora, a leading expert in sports medicine and advanced medical technology, as a key figure with companies such as nuex Technology, Dr Pecora is here to share the game changing innovations transforming injury recovery for athletes, from turning muscles that feel like beef jerky into filet to navigating the endless stream of new tech in healthcare, Dr Pecora reveals how to separate the gold from the garbage. If you want to know how technology is revolutionizing Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation, you won't want to miss this episode.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:47

All right, hey, we're so happy to have Dr John Pecora on our show. I mean, John is funny because I was going to do some background on you, and I was asking a bunch of your friends I couldn't get any background on you, because all I kept saying was what amazing human being you are, and they kept pumping you up and saying, This guy's the nicest guy, he's the best guy, on and on and on. And you're one of those amazing human beings that's always around wherever you look, you're lurking in the shadows, and you're putting everybody in front of yourself. And when I first asked you in the show, your comment was, well, what do I have to say? I mean, it was like, You're just, you're just not that kind of guy, and that's exactly why I wanted you on the show, because you are behind the scenes on so many things. And we're going to talk about science, we're going to talk about tech, and we're going to talk about life. And I just am so excited to have you on and and I'm very excited to call you a friend, and we're the profession is so excited to have you as part of it. So thank you for being on the

Dr. John Pecora: 1:46

show. Well, thank you so much. And first and foremost, I paid all those people to say that I had a list. I had a list of everybody that I thought that you'd go to, and I made sure that they got a check in the mail before, before you reached out. So but I appreciate that so much, and it's just an honor for you guys to have me on and to speak always with two great sports chiropractic legends. I mean, you and and Spencer. You know, have have really revolutionized the profession and the industry and, and I know this is supposed to be about me, I wonder, you know, have you guys and I, and I've listened to a lot of your great, amazing, amazing pods. Have you guys done a background on yourself at all, and kind of spoke to, you know, your evolution, as far as how you got into I mean, obviously, this is for another time, but, you know, I just, I think those stories, those stories are so meaningful and so impactful to a lot of whether it's even older, you know, professionals or younger. Cairo's coming out of school and seeing, hey, I want to be, you know, Dr Spencer Barron and work with an NFL team someday. I want to be Dr Terry and so I just think, if you haven't done that, I'll come on and interview you guys, no at some point and see he's

Dr. Terry Weyman: 2:52

doing it again, but he's put never made in front of him.

Unknown: 2:58

But also wanted to say not only two sports chiropractic legends, but maybe two of the most popular emcees in the history of the pro sport chiropractic conference. I mean, Terry, you crushed it last year, and I know Spencer's emceeing this year. And we want

Dr. Terry Weyman: 3:14

to talk about you. Yeah, we want to talk about all that stuff. I know it may be your uncomfortable subject, but we want to talk about you and nothing, nothing else. So I gotta hear what got you into this profession. Because, you know, your past is pretty cool. So what got you into the profession and the draw and the collaboration and about science and tech, but what actually got you into being a chiropractor? Yeah, it's,

Unknown: 3:40

I mean, I think for a lot of Cairo's, maybe even pts and others, it's a it's a similar story. My mom was a PT for for 40 years. When I was a younger athlete, I had challenging knee issues and low back issues. And, you know, we went to every ortho that you could possibly go to. I grew up in Milwaukee, and, you know, and I didn't know at the time, but the what I realized over time was that a lot of the focus was specifically on the injury or the pain site, you know, it was specifically the the chief complaint. And that's really where they focused. If my knee was really bothering me, they focused on my knee, and they gave me straps to, you know, to change the, you know, the the patellar pole and and, you know, anti inflammatories and other things all really designed to really treat the symptom. And, you know, I struggled for years and years, and I graduated from undergrad, I moved out to Southern California to try to play qualifiers on the pro beach volleyball tour. And same, same issues that just really, really impeded my athletic performance, and really were a challenge and were really frustrating. And I was fortunate enough to come across Dr Billy Brown, who's actually Tim Brown's younger brother, who was just had come off the AVP tour, and was was training athletes and and we had talked about some of. Challenges. And he said, Hey, come into the clinic one day, and let's just, let's take a look and see what's going on. And within 10 minutes, you know, and this is a lot of you know, similar, you know, when, when Troy, you guys had an amazing podcast with Troy van bees in the other day, who's, who's another legend and and thank him for for his work and everything that he's done and sharing, you know, his message and his experience. It was my, you know, I had right knee issues and right low back issues, and within 10 minutes, he's like, Hey, it's your left hip. And no one had ever looked at anything other than the spots that that I complained about ever I went to the best PTs in, you know, Milwaukee and Chicago. I went to some of the best orthos. And within weeks, I felt a dramatic improvement. And I thought, Man, this, you know, at the time, it's funny, I was living with Dr Travis Conley. We were roommates. Travis was, Travis was also playing, playing qualifiers, and he's now the head Cairo for the Chargers. And, you know, at the time I was I was about to take the MCATs, I was going to go to med school. I wanted to be an ortho. My mom was PT, and I kind of loved sports medicine. I had been coaching volleyball and other sports for for years, and and Billy said, Hey, you should go to go to Cairo school like you can spend more time with your people. Your targeted time as an ortho was three to five minutes, if you're lucky, your goal is to get in, figure out what diagnostics you're supposed to, you know, administer, and then and then get out. And you can't really do a whole lot to educate your patients and your athletes on how not only to get out of the pain that they're in, but to prevent, you know, any further issues and continue to become more healthy and more functional. You look at other cultures and, you know, they get into their 60s, 70s, 80s, and they're able to do a full sit squat, you know, and hold that for minutes at a time, and move, and they do Tai Chi and and so you want to be able to share some of that information. And Travis had decided he was going to go to Toro school. It was LACC at the time. And while we were there, I think second or third term, it became Southern California University of Health Sciences. Imagine saying that every time that you answer the phone, but S, C, U, h, S and so. So I agreed, and Travis and I did the hour drive every day from Newport Beach, Huntington Beach, to LA and I was really fortunate. And while I was in class, Billy's niece, who was Tim Brown's niece Aaron Hudson, who's another amazing Cairo, she was going and shadowing Tim. And you know, at the time, Tim was the medical director for the AVP. He was the first Cairo, I think, to ever be a medical director for a professional sports tour organization, and so we would go and hang out with him and her, and I would sit in the corner and just observe, you know, as students and interns, and watch Lennox Lewis and Kelly Slater and, you know, all kinds of other athletes Walk, walk in and out the door. And we saw the passion that Tim had for sharing information for sharing the story as to why they were having the challenges that they were some of them were just coming into because they wanted to improve performance. How, by changing tissue quality, you could allow the brain to connect to to those muscles and respond better and protect the joints. And at the time, he was doing a lot of taping, which was, which was really kind of innovative. So, you know, from there, I think you know, and young Kairos and others, you know, always, you know. And I think one of your rapid fire questions sometimes is, you know, if you could share anything with the younger generation or with anyone who maybe wants to to, you know, succeed at a high level or do something that you've done, you know, what is it? And I think it's always number one, find somebody who's doing what you want to do, the way that you that you want to do it. You've got to love it. It's a lot of work. Just like succeeding as an athlete, you have to love the work. You hear Tom Brady talk all the time about, you know, even in golf, he loves spending time at the range more than he actually loves going and playing around the golf or he would love practice and the time that you have to put in to get better and acquire the skills more than the big games sometimes. And so, you know, it's a grind being being a sports Cairo, you don't get paid a whole lot right away. I know that. You know, Troy was talking about some of the NBA guys who are making offers. That's after 30 years, you know, of him grinding, but you have to love it, and you have to want to help people. And so it was a great opportunity to see Tim doing something that I wanted to do. I was playing on the beach. I got to work on the AVP Sports Med staff. And similar to his story, I would lose, you know, in in the qualifier, and I would go right into the med tent and start working with the athletes. And you know, I think the other thing is, you know, if there are specific sports that you want to work with, if you haven't played those sports, try to play them. Try to get involved. You want to be able to speak the language. You want to know the subtle intricacies of the sport. But so I did that for a while. And then I had the opportunity to work on the WsL, the pro surf tour. And still do, I just got back from El Salvador for for one of the contests. So I was a head physio for that contest, but, but I was in practice for about five years full time, and this is right out of school. And you know, I saw, there was a couple other guys that were in in our in our practice who had been, you know, doing it for 30 years, and, and I thought, man, number one, I feel like I have a low ceiling relative to the amount of people that I could impact. And, you know, at the time, Tim was also starting in teleskin, the sports performance apparel line, and, and, and I thought that was a great opportunity. If we could change one thing, let's pick one thing. Maybe we could affect worldwide posture. And so I phased myself out of practice. Became full time. I was actually the first employee with with intelli skin as we launched that out of the garage. And I was head of sales, research, business development. We did a lot of great research with Dr James Andrews ortho in Birmingham, and Dr Kevin Wilk, who you know, really is in large part, you know, very few people would would admit to this, but you know, orthos are amazing relative to their ability to fix a structural deficit or or or repair something that's been damaged, Really the day that you walk out of surgery determines whether you're successful or not. You can have an amazing surgeon, and if you don't do the right stuff, coming out of surgery and going forward, it's going to be a challenge. At the time he was working, he brought Adrian Peterson back. He brought Drew Brees back. I mean, there's still a funny story, I think, about drew you know, first day of of rehab, you know, telling, telling Kevin that, you know, if you got him back to win a Super Bowl, that he'd buy him a Range Rover. And obviously, Drew, came back and won a Super Bowl. I don't know if Kevin ever got the Range Rover, but, but, you know, so, so we launched intelliscan. About five years into intelliscan, I had the opportunity to come on as work with Meyer, DC, which is a large fitness distributor. I'm sure a lot of people order, order their products for Meijer. We had a PT division as well and a fitness division. I overseed three blog sites where we had over 200 contributors. And the goal was similar to what you guys are doing and what we do with web exercises, Academy, share information, raise and elevate the level of education that's out there. Sometimes we'll go and Spencer and I were fortunate enough to be on the circuit for a long time. I think I would see Spencer sometimes out at conferences, more than I would see a lot of my family and friends. And we always kind of joke that we should just get, we should get a caravan and just all jump in a tour bus and, you know, tour around. But it was amazing opportunity. You know, part of the job at Meyer was to, was to go to all the conferences, speak with all the opinion leaders and influencers, and, you know, try to get them to contribute and partner with them. But it was a remarkable opportunity, opportunity to be able to see what's the best of the best out there, learn from from some of the best. And then also, I got to sit in a think tank. We had over 10,000 products in the catalog and on the website, and as the only clinician on the staff, I basically sat in the conference room when new products would be brought on, when docs would come in with a new idea. And it was really an amazing case study in getting to see what was effective, what became successful, and what didn't. And it's a relatively simple, you know, formula. You you create a community, you've got a product, and you just have to share, you know, you have to share. Share the word, share the story. But, you know, after about five years of of doing that, you know, I really missed working with with athletes, I started a consulting group in in 2020 and wanted to carve out more time to work with with athletes and and patients again. And you know, from there, where our clinic is, is, is pretty fun. You know, we work with NFL, MLB, NHL, UFC athletes. We just had a couple athletes in in the Olympics, Dr Terry Romine, who's one of our other Cairo's travels with Red Bull and with the surf tour. He was just in Tahiti for the Olympics. And, you know, they won, the Red Bull team won two golds and a silver, and both the men's and women's surfing. And it was a lot of fun. Chopu, it's one of the, one of the heaviest waves in the world, and to see some of the best in the world, you know, out there doing it on on the world stage, was amazing. Dr, Frank Acuna is also in our in our clinic. He, you know, old school gone stead adjuster. He also decided that he didn't know enough about PT, so he went back to PT school after PT school. He got his RN for a while. He had the rock and his family driving down twice a week from LA to get treated by him. And so we've got a PT who's been a head PT for a number of MLB teams, who's going to start. With us this fall. So it's a fun, fun team, fun group. It's been a fun, fun journey with our consulting group. You know, I get to work with web exercises and Dr David Cruz, where he's got an exercise platform with 1000s of videos and images so that instead of, you know, handing out the paper copies, you can select exercises on the app, give those to your patients, and you can track engagement and compliance. Get to work with with great company. I was a VP of Business Development for new X technologies, which is a direct current stim technology, which I really think is, is the future of of health and fitness and performance and and recovery and and a bunch of others. The list, list goes on and on, but, you know, the goal was always, work with great people, work with great, great products, and get better every day, you know. And that's why I love listening to you guys, because it's an opportunity to be able to learn, you know, even if you come away with one Pro. But I guess going back to my conversation, or my, my point about, you know, Spencer and I being out on the road. You know, sometimes you would be out at at a conference, and there'd be 50 people in a room, or there'd be 500 and someone would say something that was just life changing. And you'd look around the room and you'd think, man, how come we're the only ones that get to hear this, or got to hear this, or know this. I mean, because it would change on Monday morning, my entire paradigm as to how I would practice, or, you know, see my patients, or treat my patients, or the prism that I would look at things through. And so hopefully, with, you know, with some of the stuff that we're doing and and with, you know, the great, great stuff that you guys are doing, you know, we can, we can share that with the world and and make the world smaller as it relates to the great education and information that's out there. So there's a lot more to it. I'm sure that I'm missing some of it, but that's it. Make a long look. Make a short story long. That's that's kind of been my journey.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 16:54

John, that's great man. You know, I want to, you know, working with patients, you know, doing what we do as chiropractors, and all the physical stuff that we do, you know, this new X thing is kind of got me curious. I want to talk about technology and your thoughts about how this, you know, enhances patient outcomes. You know, beyond, you know, just spinal manipulation and what your involvement is. And if you could share some of that, yeah,

Unknown: 17:22

absolutely, it's, you know, I think technology is amazing and and I think our patients and athletes expect us to be on the front edge of of what's out there, and to know about ways that that we can help them improve performance, get back quicker, last longer, you know, keep from getting getting injured. So I've been lucky once again, with, you know, my time with Meijer to see anything and everything that's out there. I mean, I saw stuff that that will never make it to market and no one has ever seen or heard of. Sometimes it's ahead of its time, and it takes time for people to come around as health and fitness professionals. I think number one, we are bombarded constantly by so many people trying to get us. You know, they see that you work with, with anyone, and I see Spencer, you know, at at PFCs, you know, I see all the people that you know that approach you, and all the other NFL Kairos, and they want to be, you know, they want to be involved, and they want you to use their product. And you know, every time that somebody gets hurt, and they know that you're working with a team, you get 30 calls from 30 different products saying, Oh, they should be using this and, and it's, you know, so I think that as a profession, typically, we have a wall up to a degree as as far as being open to what's out there and what what could help us, you know, partially because, once again, we are bombarded by so much, but also because there's a lot of stuff that, let's be honest, doesn't work as well as it may. And obviously, everything has an application for individual challenges. But that was that was something that was exciting with with the new Acts, is that it just, it seemed to help in so many different, different facets. I think as as professionals, we need to be a little bit more open to to what's out there, and if nothing else, so that when patients and athletes come to us and say, Hey, what do you think about this? It's not what we've heard third hand from from somebody else. We've personally experienced it. We've felt it, and we've we've been lab rats in school where everyone's cranking on your neck, you know, and adjusting you and hooking you up to, you know, to ultrasound and everything else. I think it's important that we continue to be open to those things even as we get, you know, further along in our career, but to but to be honest, I mean, you know, we've, we've used PMF and laser, and, you know, everything else that's, that's out there and, and what I've realized is, number one, there's nothing more valuable than your hands. Yeah. I mean, when it comes to technology and, you know, and ways that we can improve outcomes, you know, I always come back to your hands, whether it's adjusting, whether it's soft tissue, whether it's taping, whether it's, you know, manual modes, whether it's taking people through exercises. So, you know, I think, first and foremost, I want to, I want to, you know, just just reiterate the fact that the greatest technology that has ever been created is the human brain, the human nervous system, and in our hands, especially our thumbs, which helped separate us. But, but the new x, when I came across the new x at the time, once again, we had used everything we had we had brought, you know, and I think that the challenge is PMF is great for stimulating cells and reducing pain. Shockwave is is amazing. Has been around for years, and it's crazy that it's got the resurgence that it has, or the the momentum that it has just recently, because the research has been around for years, I know I think it would be important for everyone who uses shockwave to watch Jill Kelly, Professor Jill Kelly, who's, you know, probably one of the foremost experts on tendinopathy and research, talk about her potential long term challenges with with Shockwave. But once again, it's like the stuff that we thought, that we knew today, a year from now, we're going to go, not so sure and why it's, why it's, it's really important to be up on, on the latest, you know, as far as what's out there, laser is amazing. We spent, I spent a lot of years with Brian Pryor, who's the founder and creator of Light Force lasers, you know, for repairing and healing and expediting, you know, tissue tissue healing. But you know, the thing in practice that we probably do the most, the two most important aspects, I think, of improving human performance, reducing the risk of injury, addressing pain, is number one, first and foremost. And Troy touched on this to a great degree. And talked about, you know, how he felt that this was of paramount importance improving tissue quality. And I think that, you know, in a lot of cases, we have athletes. We have, you know, patients who have tissue that is turning into beef jerky, and we try to simplify it with our athletes. So we always say, Look, you know, this tissue, you can feel that this feels like beef jerky. You want filet the nervous system, you know, works through electrical, electrical impulse. And you know, even, even with the new x, if we've got a dry sponge, and we try to send an electrical impulse through that dry sponge, you're hand safe on the other side, you wet that sponge, and the electricity is going to going to conduct. And when you've got dry, densified tissues, I mean, you can do all the exercise and activation in the world, and you're not going to activate those tissues to the degree that you that you would if they were filet, if they were wet, if they were conductive. And so, you know, our thought is always along the lines. And you know, Tim always talks about bladder Miranda and upper, lower cross. You know, if you've got tight, short, under, stretched, overused internal rotators of of the shoulder, and you've got shoulder pain, and you're not addressing those tissues that are pulling you almost like a, like a really tight bungee cord with a lot of lot of knots out of out of balance. Good luck trying to activate SCAP scalp stabilizers. And so, you know, the one thing with the new x is great, is that you can use it to release and relax tissues, to bring in circulation, after we've done soft tissue, and a lot of the protected, protection and guarding in the body. A lot of the tightness that we feel like we need to stretch lots of times, you know, is the brain really guarding an area that it feels like at one time? Maybe it was years ago, maybe it was recent that it needed to shorten and tighten and protect. So, you know, I think it's important to delineate areas that are short and tight because they're short and tight, and tight, and areas that are short and tight because they're protective and guarded. But with the new x we can place pads on an area have you go through range of motion, and it almost seems to allow the brain to relax and release and take away that protective, guarded mechanism, which maybe was needed once again two years ago, your brain never went back and said, hey, it's two weeks later, I need to release and relax and take the body back to normal. It just knows what you give it, so we use it, in large part to release and relax. Lacks tissues, but then to activate and so you can have a great piece of filet, but if the brain is disconnected to that area, or those patterns in the brain have have disconnected, good luck. Once again, trying to get that quad to fire to help destabilize the knee. So we use it, in large part, to really expedite that process of reconnecting the brain. Most stim like 10s is an alternating current, 50 to 150 hertz, even interferential alternating current, typically. Right? And you know, the new X has a 10,000 hertz background alternating current, which is always there, which helps to relax the nervous system, but it also allows what you're what you're really getting, the benefit from, which is the direct current, to go directly into the muscle and activate the muscle, and then you can control that direct current. And one of the ways that, from a simplification standpoint, we we talk about it is the frequency range is 50 to 250. Hertz 250. Is relax, release, flexibility, mobility. As you drop the frequency, it's almost like throwing a plate on the barbell. You know, the guy that lifts the car off the kid. It's not adrenaline that's doing the work. It's adrenaline signaling to the brain. We need all hands on deck. We need every possible muscle fiber to fire, and so we have that capability within us all the time. But if you're lifting a 20 pound weight, your brain's only going to let you use the amount of fibers that it takes to lift that 20 pound weight. So with with the new x, you can actually place that on the muscles, and that 20 pound weight can to the brain be 100 pound weight, so you're getting more work done with less load on the joints. So it's, once again, I don't use a whole lot other than my hands and tape, and we've had access to everything and but when we came across this, it's it, because when we did when we had PMF, we would use it with these certain patients, or laser with these certain patients, or Shockwave with these certain patients. And literally, we've got three in our clinic and and we're our PTS are fighting over them all day, because even if it's just two minutes while we're doing tissue work to release pec minor, we're at the same time activating, you know, middle lower trap and infraspinatus, and, you know, scalp stabilizers. And so we can also put it on an ankle and be be mobilizing and rehabbing. It's just been a great, great tool so, but that being said, once again, you know, I think that when it comes down to, you know, outcomes, you know, there's, there's nothing more valuable than the technology of of our hands.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:55

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Unknown: 28:40

Yeah, yeah, so. And I think that's a really interesting question. And I think that, you know, there's been a lot of groups that have very large budgets who have attempted to try to answer answer that question. I was, once again, with my I was, I was fortunate enough to go to a lot of the PT conferences in the in the APTA, the American Physical Therapy Association. They've got a series of sections. And every year they do what's what's the it's basically the business section of the Physical Therapy Association. It's called private practice and and they bring in all the heads of all the largest franchises into into speak and work together. And one year I was there, and I listened to one of the regional directors from it was either Athletico or ATI. I mean, they have 800 you know, facilities, I think. And he talked about a study that they did at one point to to somewhat standardize their treatment protocols and find out what is the best of the best, what works the best. And so they took every modality that they had, they took every possible therapeutic intervention that they had, and they put it through a multi year, I think, test to see what what proved out. And then they were going to build their protocols based around that. And I think the one thing that they really learned was that a good majority of of the the innovations and the technologies proved out to a similar degree. And they what they realized was that no matter what it is, to a degree, once again, some obviously work better for specific instances and others. And you can show that in in in studies if, if the care and the treatment was consistent, and the provider believed in what they were doing and was able to convince the patient that what they were doing was was effective and was going to help them, and there was a sense of hope and encouragement, and they took an active role in in their care. It was, it was successful. And I think one thing that they learned from that was that, you know, if you can have good, good practitioners, and you can be consistent with care, and you can get the patient to buy in, you're going to get good results when it comes to the the brands and the products. You know, once again, I kind of spoke to, you know, to the simple formula that we saw work, and it was, and it was pretty consistent across across the board. I think in large part, you have to have a great you have to have a great product. I think there's, honestly, there's a lot of products that maybe aren't so great, but they've got great marketing, and they end up being successful. But if you're able to to have a product that works, and you're able to tell the story, and then you're able to create a community, which is Greg Rose from TPI talks about it all the time, create a community around that those were the products that that did the best, you've got to be able to last. I think it's another reason why a lot of higher level practitioners or higher visibility practitioners are very closed to being open to certain technologies, because it may be an amazing innovation, but if they're not around next year, and you've gone and told all of your patients and all of your athletes that this was the next thing, and then that company isn't able to survive. It becomes, becomes a real, real challenge. So there was, there was few that were, that were successful, you know, and are still around and, you know, I think that you I think you could probably, you know, look at the few that, you know, foot levelers has has been around forever. I may not be, you know, an advocate of orthotics, to a degree, you know, I think that they're potentially something that you can use as you're working through a rehab process to get, you know, the athlete, to a place where they have better foot mechanics and control. But they've done a great job of creating a community giving back to to the profession, you know, and there are others like, you know, Light Force lasers, you know, they've done, done a great job. They were acquired by by Chattanooga. But I, you know, I think that there's, there's a lot of great technologies that are out there, once again, the ones that were successful, and it was so apparent and so obvious, you know, they, had the resources to be able to go to all the conferences, because you've got to create relationships over time. You know, you see the guys that are standing there in their booth, and they don't know anyone, and they go back to their investors, and there's no ROI based on that, you know, that conference that they went to, and the event investors go, No way are we going back to that? And I always tell people, it takes three years, typically, of you being there and being consistent before they'll even stop at your booth and say hi, because we see too many people come and go. And it's almost like neighbors in your community, where, if you've got a lot of people turning over, you don't even make attempt really to get to know them, because you know that they're going to be gone next year. And so you know, if you can last, and you can build your brand, and you have the resources and the commitment, you know, I think a lot of people also see the opportunity to be able to drive revenue based on the profession. And, you know, it's strictly a transactional type of relationship. They don't create the relationships that allow you introductions to, you know, maybe the big thing that might help. And they go in and, you know, it's all about them, you know, to your point earlier, you know about our conversation and and, and they don't last. And so, you know, I think it's having the resources to stay, trying to build a community, trying to build relationships, doing it the right way and doing it for the right reasons really, really helps to prove out the model.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 34:19

Okay, I want to ask you about, you know, there's influencers out there, there's there's testimonials, there's all sorts of you know, and relationships are great, but what we experience in the sports world that has always been a thrill is measuring differences, objectively measuring a change, and not just saying, Oh, I feel great, which is what the average patient would would come back with, or the average person might say, but making a very objective and clear difference in speed or strength, or, you know, recovery. Or what have you that makes it objective. You know, with with technology now you can do a lot more measuring. And I think that is probably, you know, think of, I think about the the old, you know, dieting before and after, you know, images that that were popularized many years ago, you know, you show the fat person, and then he got skinny off of this vitamin, you know, something like that. But those were super popular because it was objective. How do you determine and use an objective measure with maybe new X, or, or, or any of the other technologies that you see out there. Yeah,

Unknown: 35:41

yeah. And I think it's, I think it's important for for patient buy in, you know, and for compliance, and for, once again, their belief in the this is, this is helpful. I mean, I think it's why sometimes supplements are a real challenge. Because, you know, it takes years of taking supplements lots of times, the good ones, you know, not the ones that you feel, feel immediately, but to, but to make a change. And so there's got to be a lot of belief and trust that this is something that's going to be be good for me. And I think there's nothing more powerful than being able to show objective outcomes and quantifiable, you know, metrics you know, that improve and show proof that something's something's happening and you're making an improvement. I think there's a lot of technologies out there, you know, from from force plates to motion capture, you know, that allow you to show increases in range of motion, like Troy was talking about where you started, and, you know, where we need to get you but, but to be honest, you know, I go back to, you know, to to to my hands And then the things that I've learned over the years as far as assessment. So when, when athletes walk in the door, we take them through a real basic assessment. We see where they aren't moving well related to their pain. And lots of times, once again, they come in with a right knee issue, and we're working on their left left hip. And so we check and C I did limited dorsiflexion. Do they have limited, you know, applies, you know, and shoulder range of motion. And then we'll do some work, and we test them right after working on that area, and they can see increases in range of motion, or they can see decreases in pain. And immediately they know that this is something that's, that's, that's helping them to a degree. So, you know, Tim always talks about test, test and retest. You know, I feel sometimes like, maybe, you know, people who grew up in a Catholic church where, you know, you're up and down, up and down, up and down. You know, our patients kind of feel sometimes like, you know, but we work on a specific area. We'll work on, you know, a calf, you know, and or we'll work on, you know, a hip, and we have them move, we have them go through some of the tests. We check their squat, we check their range, we check their function. And we're doing that constantly, because, from a diagnostic perspective, I want to know what's making the most change. And if I work on everything and they're better, maybe 75% of the stuff that we worked on wasn't as impactful or important at this moment as as we what we worked on. And so, you know, we're, we're big fans of constantly testing as we work on areas and and allowing them and almost mandating that they become an active participant in the process. They've got to give us feedback when we're doing tissue work. They're not white knuckling it on the table. It's on a scale of one to 10. Seven is uncomfortable. We had a patient, a high level basketball player, that came in the other day. We're working through some imbalances. He went in and got a really deep tissue massage, and he is jacked. And, you know, the massage therapist, unfortunately, was in there with the elbow of death, trying to save the world in a day. And I said, look like these are imbalances that have accumulated over years and years and years. You've got to take layers off the surface, and you lose a great opportunity working on the more superficial layers, like Tim. Tim Brown talks about in his sprt therapy soft tissue work, that it allows the body to be in a place where it can relax, recover, heal, repair, as opposed to going into fight or flight, protect guard and having to white knuckle it through. This isn't something that we're doing to you, you know, this is something we're doing with you. We want you to, number one, want to come back because it's somewhat comfortable to a degree, but number two, feeling like you're taking an active role, and that there's a way to make this comfortable, you know, so that we so that we all win. So, you know, I think that, you know, it's important to objectify metrics and track we use the M trigger, which is a SEMG device where you can place the pads on you can contract a muscle, and it shows you on a screen the level, the degrees of microvolts of muscle activation, which is a really great technology, also created by Brian Pryor and innovated by Russ Payne, who's a really great PT in Houston, worked with the rockets and Astros and others. So there's a lot of great technology. I think the challenge is implementing it like. Already, you know, you got 10 people in your waiting room you're running behind, you know, and the thought of like, whatever it is, from a technology perspective, has got to make your life easier, and it's got to allow you to increase outcomes. And, you know, when the iPhone came into existence, right? People were like, What? What are you doing? And there's 1000 things that you can use it for, but if you can just show them how they can take pictures and send texts, you know, and have their phone with them, they can learn the other things from there. So if you are a technology or you're a brand, and you're having challenges with the barrier to getting, you know, professionals to adopt you got to make it simple. You got to hold their hand. You got to make their life, you know, easier and better, as opposed to making it more complicated and more complex, because otherwise it's going in the closet and and it's going to sit there, and they're going to try to sell it, you know, next year. So I don't know if that answers your

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:54

question, yeah, what was the, what was the name

Unknown: 40:57

of the product that trigger, M, trigger, trigger, yep, yep. And it's just, it's a$500 Yeah, yeah. SEMG, so you just place the pads on, and then there's games so that you know if you're coming back from ACL and you're trying to get quad activate, and you can compare side to side, so you can see what you know, what your baseline should be on your unaffected quad versus what the affected quad is. You're at 1500 micro volts. Your affected quad is at 700 patients. Know, from an objective metrics perspective, that they got to get up to 1500 micro volts, and we use it a lot with the new x, just to quantify, you know, the the the improvements, where, where. You know, originally, when I got the new x, I put the M trigger on my bicep, and I did the standard test, which is three contractions for five seconds, and it registered 700 microvolts, which I don't think is very, probably very impressive for a bicep contraction, but it was what it was at the time. And I put the new x on, I did one minute of just unweighted bicep curls. I took it off, I put the M trigger back on, and it registered 2800 microvolts of muscle activation. And I thought, Whoa, that's interesting. And so I took it off and went back to the office, I'm answering some emails in about an hour later, I thought, did I just have residual juice flowing through my bicep? And that's what it was, it was picking up on. And so I went back out and I threw the M trigger back on, and I registered 2100 micro bots, so an hour later, still, a three time increase in muscle bullets of micro, micro volts of muscle activation. And so, you know, when you can show patients things like that, you know? And I think the other thing is, you know, then we started to do tests, and we thought, okay, well, we've got dynamic warm ups that that we do to get an athlete ready to compete, to wake up muscles, you know, get them to fire. And there's a lot more that needs to be done with this relative to really quantifying this, but we would get drops in muscle activation, not increase in muscle activation, through some of these dynamic movements. And now we still have everyone do dynamic, dynamic dynamic movements, but we've got professional athletes that now use the new x to warm up, because you can increase engagement without creating fatigue. You know, it's kind of similar to, you know, the thought process of of, you know, kind of what the mark pro tries to do. You had pitches running polls after after a bullpen or after an outing to try to flush out their legs, but you're creating a lot of fatigue in the system in doing so. So the thought process with the mark Pro was, could we flush and pump without creating any any fatigue? And that was a thought process. And the new X does that. I mean, we've got some trainers who say that it's the call it the mark Pro on steroids. But, you know, we use normatech boots a lot in our in our clinic. I think if there's one thing, if I was deserted on a desert island, and I could only bring one thing, and, you know, I couldn't bring the new x, it would probably be the hyper ice, hypervolt, the vibrating foam roller. That's a great story and a great company. And Anthony Katz, who's the founder, who was a patient for a while, and plays basketball here and in Orange County, developed a and that's where hyper ice came from. He developed an ice wrap. He got sick of wrapping up his knee with an ice bag and punching a hole in it, and, you know, leaving a trail for his enemies, of of water leaking out, you know, of the ice bag. And so he developed this compressive wrap. And he was going into NBA locker rooms, and he saw guys on vibration plates, foam rolling, and he thought, boom, we're going to put vibration into a foam roller. And a lot of like what we do with the tissue, work with multiple 50 to 100 strokes, creating a thermal effect to create pliability in the tissue the vibration. They did a study at the University of Michigan where they showed the vibration increased. Pliability by 30% allowing you to get more flexibility. So every night, before I go to bed, you know, we always talk about with our athletes, you brush your teeth twice a day, right? Like everyone in the world brushes their teeth at least twice a day, and you could argue that your spine and your hips and your. Knees are maybe more critical than your teeth. I mean, you could rip your teeth out, put new teeth in, and you'd be you'd be okay. I mean, I guess you can do that with your hip and your knee now, but we always say every night you get done brushing your teeth, you need to go roll for a couple minutes, stretch for a couple minutes, and then do a couple activation exercises, whether it's a plank or we love Stuart McGill's, you know, big three, and a lot of the stuff that that he does, so we'll have them, do, you know, plank side plank bird dogs, lift offs, some stretches, you know, maybe some, some Soma or aldoa or foundation training stuff, just to create some activation. And you create those patterns over time. And it's that repetition that really builds, you know, the benefits. And it's, it's, you know, we sorry, I could go on for for hours. But one of the frustrations with rehab is that, you know, people less times will do their exercises to get better. Everyone's motivated by their pain or their limitations, right? If they can't do something, they're really, really motivated the second that their pain goes on their radar from here to here, they're back. They stop doing their stuff, they lose their motivation. And you've got so much, you know, area that you've got to work through to get to a place where you're really safe, and most people live right here. And so the consistency with rehab, you know, and really sticking with the exercises. And you know, it's important that your rehab isn't just for your injury, it's for life like those are the exact exercises that are going to keep you from having TJ, we just had a few MLB pitchers that we rehabbed and got back, and it just all it always amazes me, the the limitations of what's done out there relative to what we know and what could be employed and what they should be doing. You talk about, you know, Troy, talking about $180 million athlete. It's like, you know, investing a million dollar like, like LeBron does and TV and, you know, Tom Brady and Roger Federer and others did like that. This is the one asset that organizations should be investing in that athletes should be investing in. This is your vehicle. This is your sports car. If you're an f1 racer, you know, you think of all the money that goes into an f1 car like that is the primary asset. You know, there's, there's no greater vehicle or innovation, you know, in the history of the world than, you know, than the human brain. And we've got all these robotic technologies out there that they're investing in, and it's like they look right past the, you know, I mean, we'll, we'll do circles around, around all those, those innovations, at least these, for a while.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:34

I'm fascinated still by the way you measure the difference in muscle, electrical conductivity or or strength. I'm going to ask you after the show more about that M trigger and new X and how that seems to make such a huge difference in muscle strength. Because we're, you know, I'm still doing muscle testing like, you know, like we learned in orthopedics and in chiropractic, you know. But I think that's really a cool way to objectively measure differences, and that'll jazz any patient, not just our our athletes,

Unknown: 48:09

right? And it's and, sorry, no, no, no, go, go, go, go. And it's objective. You can see it. You know, I think a lot of times the challenge with with muscle testing, to a degree which is amazing, is that there is an in inter examiner reliability bias, you know, to you, whether you realize it or not, you may be pushing a little less than you should. You know. I went into, you know, to get muscle testing. I was doing some consulting with the group and and, and knowing what I know, I know that he was not pushing, you know, I like I could feel it, and whether it's, whether it's, you know, involuntary, or it's or it's intentional, or it's unintentional, you know, I think being able to show people numbers, you know, once again, people lie numbers, don't, you know, I think it's, I think it's important. So I just think, you know, utilizing whatever technology is out there, I just implore the technology brands to make it easy. Make it easy to implement. Make it easy to tell the story. Simplify it. Simplify the process. Get it in the door. Allow, you know, practitioners, to use it for something that's super beneficial, and then you can evolve and expand from there. But there's just so much great, great stuff out there. As a practitioner, be open when you're walking around the exhibit hall, I know that you feel like you're walking into a clothing store where they work on commission, and you're just like, you know, head down, but, but be open. Those people are out there to try to help you, you know, to try to, you know. And they may all think that their one thing is the most important thing in the world. We know that that's not the case, but it may be a really important spoke in the wheel of what may, may benefit your patients. And, you know, when it comes down to it, I think that's one thing that, you know, Gary Gray was talking about on, you know, on your on your podcast, is that, you know, it's not about us, it's about the athlete, and it's about what can we surround them? What. With to make sure that they're getting the best, best care. And I think that, you know, with what Tim Brown has done with the with the WsL sports meds team, where we just did the US Open down in Huntington, there was 40 practitioners from, you know, from mental performance coaches to ATS to, you know, massage therapists to Cairo's to dos. You had Jason AMST on who's who's really brilliant. He was down there. PT is and others to try to make sure you know that there's everything that we need, and none of us have it all you know. The goal is to know what you don't know, and then refer or find partners. You know, Frank Acuna in our clinic, maybe one of the greatest adjusters that I've ever, ever come across, in addition to Billy Brown, he's an old school Gonstead guy, you know, we always talk about, you know, the majority of what we do, to a degree, is somewhat of a shotgun. I mean, he is a, he is a sniper in there. And the way that he reads X rays and can really take one segment and move it when you don't want the other two to move. You know, make relationships with others. Don't make it all about you. That's the easiest way to lose, lose an athlete. None of us have it all. Get a good team and and you'd be amazed at there's so many athletes out there, so many patients to, you know, try to keep them all to yourself. Just doesn't make doesn't make any sense. So, but it's, it's challenging. It's hard to find people that you work well with. Alan Sokolov talks all the time about, you know, working well with with others. He's another legend that, you know, we need to thank for, for helping to I mean, maybe you know one of the longest tenured, you know, professional sports, Kairos, in the history of the profession. So go to conferences. Try to learn. Don't sit on your phone. You know, just trying to make it through to get your CE is like, go find stuff that's impactful, that's going to improve. And we should be. There's a reason why we've got, you know, yearly CE, you know, requirements and, and it's not just, you know, for the CE groups to make money. It's the mandate that we're out there and we're trying to learn, learn new stuff. And even if you don't want to employ it, at least you can speak from an educated perspective, you know, on what's, what's out there, and you can say, Yeah, I've done it. I felt it. I'm I personally don't use it, but I can see where they would use it for this or that. It's just, you know, this constant, just because you don't know it, you know, bashing it. I just, I think that it doesn't make you look good. It doesn't make us look good as a profession. And you know, I really wish that the profession had a way to unite around a few you know, Jay Greenstein and I talk about this all the time. It's, it's, there is so much benefit and there's so much good that we could do, but we're so fractioned as a profession. And you look at, you know, the American Physical Physical Therapy Association, and there are 29 sections come together every year. In the combined sections meeting. There's 15,000 PTS, you know, in wherever city it is. And they come together as a group, and some of them work in geriatrics, and some of them work in peds, and some of them work in ortho sports and but, but they don't bash each other for deciding that this guy just wants to do geriatrics or or whatever. And so I think you know, if nothing else, everyone can do, you know, whatever it is that they want to do, practice, how they want to practice, but you know, whether it's posture and function or alignment, or something that we could come together as as a profession and unite on, you know, I think it would be, be really beneficial and help to elevate us and raise us, and hopefully at some point, you know, there's a group of us that get together and puts all the agendas aside, you know, and we're able to create, you know, some unifying organization.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:27

That's why it's that's why online CEUs has put a real dent in gatherings, you know, like conventions and, I mean, dr, Terry and I were, I mean, that's part of the reason why we do the show, is because we learn so much from just even hanging out, you know, afterwards, after a seminar or after a program with all our peers. And so yes, you're right, getting together. And really, you know, hurting our you know, all the different practices that everybody does is really a benefit. John, let me ask you, is there any any idea or topic or subject in, in that in healthcare that you believe is not getting enough attention, but has really great potential in in the field of sports?

Unknown: 54:16

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot, you know, there's, there's probably a lot out there that that we could and should be doing. Do you mean, could you from a from a treatment perspective, from a performance perspective,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:35

yeah, treatment would be good. But, you know, just any that lifted so it was off the top of your head. If there was anything in particular you wanted a target could be an examination style or testing or or a recovery or rehab perspective that you feel is something that needs to be more highlighted.

Unknown: 54:57

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I one. Once again, I know I keep bringing this up, but I couldn't agree with with Troy Moore, I think, and Tim, you know, this has been 40 years of Dr Tim Brown, you know, evolving soft, soft tissue treatments. I think improving the quality of tissue. I think manual therapy. I think, you know, research. I mean it. You know, when I like, I took the grasston courses. I took Hawk grips. I've taken all the, you know, all the instruments, they stim, all of them. And one of the things that you know, the grasston talks a lot about, is, when you look at levels of research, out of all the interventions that we use, there's probably nothing that's more quantifiable than than massage and manual therapy and improving the quality of quality of tissue as it relates to joint mechanics as it relates to injury. And so I just you know, once again, in this journey of getting to see anything and everything that's out there, it brings you kind of back to your roots. And one of the things that I loved about going and watching Tim and why athletes would fly in from around the world, because there was very few people at the time who were doing soft tissue, you know, the way that he was doing it. And so, you know, I think, you know, the ability to learn manual therapy from a diagnostic perspective, and that's why it's really great from a lighter touch standpoint. The way that, you know, the Tim's sprt protocols, you know, kind of play out it's a lighter touch. And you you would hear stories in school about, you know, the blind adjusters who could palpate a hair through 100 pages of a dictionary, you know. And you realize it wasn't from force, you know, was from getting as light a touch as possible so that you could really, you know, feel the contours of what was there, and as you depress, you dampen, you know, sensation and receptors and ability to perceive. And so, you know, I think comfortable soft tissue, improving tissue quality, and then activating those tissues. I think the two most you know, probably common treatments that you'll come across in PT and Chiro and rehab and, you know, dos who do manual therapy are soft tissue and then rehab exercises, right? But if you're just doing rehab exercises and you haven't improved the quality of tissue, you can't activate beef jerky to the degree that you would like to or a dry sponge, you know. And we try to use simple analogies, you know. So the patient were like, and they will say, does this, does that feel more like filet or more, you know, because you've got an adductor that just feels like, like beef jerky on almost everyone and so but, but, you know, you once you've improved those qualities of tissue, you've got to reconnect the brain, otherwise you've got dead filet sitting in there, you know, to a degree. So I think that to our, you know, our goal, you know, and Tim's got a number of sprt therapy courses that are that are coming up in the future. Check out the Instagram if you get a chance, please. It's sprt therapy or Dr Tim Brown TV, sports care. We're doing one in Oahu, in North Shore during the pipeline contest in Hawaii in December. We've got a bunch coming up in Newport Beach, some in LA and Florida. But I think, you know, the two most important factors are improved tissue quality, and then activate activate that tissue. And you know, it helps to improve performance and reduce the risk, risk of injury. So I would, I just think there should be more more manual therapy and more comfortable. You know, a lot of people equate, you know, tissue work with, you know, once again, the elbow of death, you know, or somebody get in there super deep for a couple passes, and you trying to white knuckle it and hold it through. And I've been through all that, and I felt all that, and I always resonate with what seems to work best for me.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:47

John, thanks. We are really closing in on the end of the show, and you've provided a tremendous amount. You have a great voice. By the way, you should feel like a radio commentator

Unknown: 59:00

coming from you, it's call you the voice, yeah, John,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 59:04

you're gonna, you're gonna replace me. You know,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 59:11

John, we usually, as you are familiar with the rapid fire question, but we have only time for one really, really important question to ask you, and it has to do with you, what do you want to be remembered for? John?

Unknown: 59:28

I mean, you know, I know that I keep, and I'm, I'm a fan of, fan of Troy and his work, and his response was being a good guy. You know? I think, I think ultimately, you know, I've got two younger boys who are who are nine and 10. I've been married for, you know, for 11 years, a lot of great friends, a lot of you know, great opportunities to have amazing friendships. I think, more than anything, I want to be remembered as, as a good guy who tried to help help the world as best I can. And you really. The ripple effect of helping one person improving their quality of life, and how then, in turn, they can help, you know, other people as well. So our goal has always been to try to enhance and elevate the level of education and, you know, the the ability for everyone to help, help others. And so we're we're excited about that, I'm excited about that, and I just fortunate and appreciative to be on with you guys and have you as friends.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:26

Well, I just got word that I have, I have a little bit more time to ask you some of the more fun questions, but you got to answer them quick. John,

Unknown: 1:00:34

okay, all right. All right. Those are called Rapid Fire. Rapid fire. I got it. I'm not that. I'm not that smart or quick. So well, yes, you are,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:43

yes you are, all right, you hang out with some real thrill seekers. Are known to still do dangerously athletic things. What is one event that stands out for you,

Unknown: 1:00:53

as far as events that, that I've been to, yeah, or or events that, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't there. But I think that the the Olympic surfing at chopu and Tahiti, you know, that is a 20 plus foot plus wave that that you can't punch through the back of that wave. That's just the ocean on the back. You know, a lot of waves. And Terry, Terry knows he, he surfs and has surfed, and lives in Southern California. You know, you're, you're trying to, trying to make it through a big wave lots of times, and you can try to get through and punch out the back. There's no back on those you are. You're trying to punch into the ocean and the seas.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:30

Hey, I'm gonna interrupt you, because the way the question was, you hang out with some gnarly dudes, personally as friends, and some of them are still pro athletes. And there's a couple stories of you guys still doing some gnarly shit, which were the gnarly stuff you'd done with your buddies.

Unknown: 1:01:49

I mean, yeah, I don't, I don't. I mean, that may be a conversation for another podcast, on another, on another platform, you know, potentially. But, yeah, no, we, I mean, we've got some, some great friends. I have a lot of friends in the NHL, or who have played in the NHL. They do some, some gnarly stuff. It was, and Sorry, I keep going back to Troy's podcast, which was really great. I hope everyone listens to we have a good friend, Dustin Penner, who won a cup with the ducks and then went to Edmonton and then won a cup with the kings. They I mean, Troy must be from Winnipeg, because I listened to that pod, and I couldn't stop thinking that that was Dustin Penner that you were talking to on the other side. And he's a smart dude, but he doesn't know all that stuff, so, but, yeah, those guys are crazy. I mean, when you look at sports, I mean, other than surfing, you know, Nazare in Portugal, or pipe, you know, in Hawaii, and just crazy places where it, you know, at chopu, you are the water is breaking on a two foot reef. You know, you're trying to surf a 15 to 20 foot wave. And if you go down, those guys stand up on the reef, you know. And so that's crazy, but, but, but, being an NHL athlete, where you are on ice, which is arguably the hardest surface, skating around, you know, you're, you're skating with guys with sticks and a frozen Puck, you know, and then, and then hard walls, I mean, you know, like, NFL is crazy. You got big dudes, you know. And collisions, NBA is an underrated, really physical, you know, sport, but you know the hockey guys, and they're just the nicest, nicest guys, guys in the world. And so I, you know, fortunately for me, I am, I am too cautious to engage in too much thrill seeking. I longboard, you know. And if it's over chest high, I'm I'm out of there, but, but, yeah, there's some crazy dudes out there. I guess my goal is to make sure that I'm in one piece so that I can try to put them back into into one piece. Sorry, that wasn't a quick answer.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:56

So much for rapid fire. A lot of people may not know you were a professional ball player. You mentioned it in the beginning. We played a few AVP tournaments. That's pretty cool. What are? What is I

Unknown: 1:04:05

didn't so let's sorry go ahead, I made it a couple times to the game to qualify to get into and played against guys who had been on tour for years. I never actually personally qualified, but I trained with all the guys who were, you know, top guys on tour, and once again, I wish that I would have known younger. And this is why I'm so passionate about this, because it really it kind of devastates me to a degree, knowing what I know now and what I didn't know then. And you see athletes that you ex, you share information with them, and they're like, How did I not know about this 10 years ago, or they're retired, and they're like, this could have completely changed my career. So it's one of the reasons that we're so driven to, you know, to help help people, because we don't want them to go through what we went through and and the struggles and the challenges and and because there's, there's nothing like whatever your sport is when you are playing good and you're feeling good, and I still go out on the way. And play with, you know, some of the best guys you know at at our level, to to a degree, or have played at a high level, and it's there's nothing like it when you're feeling good that day and you're jumping and you're moving and you're in the zone, to a degree, there's just there's no feeling like it in the world. And so we want everyone to be able to experience and feel that, even if it's with pickleball,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:05:22

I'm not gonna ask you another rapid fire. I'm sorry. No, no, we're actually you answered you answered them. You answered them thoroughly. I think we should end right now with on a hot note like that. What do

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:05:35

you think? JP, you're the best. And I feel like I want to take a nap after listen to all the shit you do in a day. So it's, it's always a it's always a pleasure to be inspired and hear something new. I'm going to be looking at M trigger. I'm going to look more into this new this new X. So yeah, thank you so much for everything you do for the profession. Man, you drive people to be better, and what you want to be remembered for is exactly what you're going to be remembered for. So we really appreciate you being part of us and to making us I mean, you're already a legend, whether you want to admit it or not, and you're making us feel like so proud, and you're driving me. I'm going to I want to learn from you. So that's really cool. So thank you for taking the time to be on the show, and thanks for taking the time to do what you do.

Unknown: 1:06:23

Thank you so much, Jason. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for doing what you do. Love

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:06:27

you Love you too.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:06:31

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast, catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.