The Hard Truth about Surviving the Unthinkable - Dr. Mark Jones

If you’ve lost someone to suicide, if you’re struggling in the darkness, or if you’re desperate to help a loved one who’s slipping away, this episode is for you. Today, we sit down with trauma therapist Dr. Mark Jones—someone who has spent his life standing at the edge of despair, pulling people back. What are the signs we miss? How do we reach someone who won’t listen? And for those left behind, how do you ever find peace? This conversation is raw, real, and might just be the lifeline you—or someone you love—desperately needs. Stay with us.

Description:

In this profoundly moving episode, we sit down with Dr. Mark F. Jones, a licensed marriage and family therapist with over three decades of experience in guiding individuals through the darkest corridors of trauma and loss. As the founder of the South Texas Liberty Alliance Group, Dr. Jones has dedicated his life to supporting those left in the wake of suicide and those grappling with suicidal thoughts.

Together, we explore the pivotal moments that led Dr. Jones to this path, delving into personal experiences that ignited his commitment to this heavy yet vital work. He shares actionable insights on recognizing the often-overlooked signs of mental distress and offers effective strategies to reach out to those resistant to help.

For families living under the shadow of despair, where suicide seems like an inevitable conclusion, Dr. Jones provides tools and strategies not only to support their loved ones but also to safeguard their own mental and emotional well-being. He candidly discusses cases that have deeply impacted him, revealing lessons learned that have shaped his approach to saving others.

We also address the ripple effect of suicide, challenging common misconceptions about those who take their own lives and shedding light on the profound impact on those left behind. Dr. Jones offers advice on how to protect oneself from being consumed by the pain and trauma of others, a crucial discussion for therapists, first responders, and family members alike.

Language plays a critical role in our understanding of mental health. Dr. Jones emphasizes the importance of shifting our societal discourse around suicide and mental health, highlighting how these changes can influence prevention and healing.

Whether you're in crisis, know someone who is, or are seeking to understand the depths of trauma and the journey to healing, this episode serves as a beacon of hope and guidance. Join us for an intimate conversation that aims to touch the core of your soul and provide the lifeline you or your loved ones may desperately need.

To learn more about Dr. Mark Jones and his work, visit the South Texas Liberty Alliance Group's website:

His book, "Walking Wounded," offers further insights into identifying and healing from life's wounds:

Please note: This episode discusses sensitive topics, including suicide and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:00

If you've lost someone to suicide, if you're struggling in the darkness yourself, or if you're desperate to help a loved one who's slipping away. This episode's for you. Today we sit down with trauma therapist, Dr Mark Jones, someone who has spent a life standing at the edge of despair, pulling people back. What are the signs we miss? How do we reach someone who won't listen and those left behind? How do you ever find peace? This conversation is raw, real, and might just be the lifeline for you or someone that desperately needs it. Stay with us. Listen well. Welcome to the cracking backs podcast. Dr. Mark Jones, thank you for being here today.

Dr. Mark Jones: 0:48

You're quite welcome. My pleasure.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:50

You know, when Dr Terry told me that you were going to be on and who you are a therapist to I had to brace myself, because Dr Terry will tell you that I always seem to end up with, you know, all teary eyed and everything, because the stories are so riveting. So I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and what you've done for Matt Matera, our previous guest, who, for our listeners, may recall that he was the one who's lost six family members to suicide. I you know, it's, it's stories like that and programs like that and interviews like that that we have that make you go, I got nothing wrong, man in my life, when you when you think the shits hitting the fan, you realize and you are inspired by people like you who help others. So Dr Jones, thank you so much again.

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:48

Thank you. Yes. Whenever you have a comparison like that, you realize probably how thankful you should be, right?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:58

Yeah, that's for sure. I want to start by asking you, what led you down this path, you know, how did you how did you start doing this, and how do you handle it?

Dr. Mark Jones: 2:08

Well, some of it's a funny story, and some of it is traumatic. Mother and Father divorced when we were when I was six years old, we were in the suburbs of Houston, Texas, and my biological father left with no notice, drove off about 10 o'clock at night from a truck stop, hugged us goodbye, and we had no idea or understanding of what was happening. And then it was me and my brother and my mom, and we had no place to live, and he drove to San Antonio and remarried someone else, and so we had no place to live, and my mother had just started going to little old country church, and the pastor felt sorry for us and had a storage building out Back and cleaned his lawn equipment and boxes out, and that's where we lived for two years. I can't say we were homeless, because we had a storage building, and we were thankful, you know, for that. And that's actually where we started singing. My mother wanted to give us purpose. She sang, played the piano, organ, and was a great musician. So she would make us, force us, drag us some at some point, up on the platform and and have a sing, and taught us how to sing. Well after that, after two years of that, she married a man that she thought was going to be a good man, and he ended up being what I would call a psychiatric case, and would beat her, uh, behind closed door, beat her in front of us, and rage, and you never really knew what was going to set him off. And that's when I started having panic attacks. And at the same time, hate panic attacks and fear because I'm next. And after about a year of that, she ran in the in our room while we're asleep. We were living in his home, and she had packed bags for us, and at midnight, ran in and woke us up and rushed us out to a second car, which they didn't have because he was a hyper controller. And so you know, when you live with an abuser profile, they don't give you opportunity to get outside of their control and their intimidation. And I think she borrowed that car from her sister, who lived in Baytown, Texas, and so we ran out to the car, and right about that time, he came pulling up in the front, and God only knows where he was being gone at midnight. So at any rate, that's probably another investigative story. So we jumped in the car as he threatened to kill all of us if we didn't get back in the house. High speed chase ensued down the streets of Houston for 30 min. Minutes, and I remember, to this day, saying to myself, I jumped in the back seat. My brother jumped in the front passenger side. My mom was driving, and back then there were no seat belts in the cars. And so I remember as we were skidding sideways, and my mother was trying to get away from him, and he's right on the back end of our car, I said to myself, Well, if he doesn't catch us and kill us, my mom will probably kill us with her driving. I remember saying that I just held on, and miraculously, we made it to Baytown, Texas, where my aunt lived and Uncle now my uncle fought in the Battle of the Bulge. He was a tough Navy man and had a lot of hand to hand combat. Was kind of a dangerous man, but a nice man to us, and when stepfather abuser realized that we were almost to that house and realized we were going, he backed off and and so he was afraid of my uncle, and we eventually moved to San Antonio, Texas, and my first year in college, speed ahead to your to that's part of my answer to you. I know what trauma feels like. I know what it's like to have to deal with it. I know what it's like to not know what involuntary panic attacks. And panic disorder is and hyper vigilance, your brain on high alert, watching for the next person you know to rage and to abuse you. And so what happened? Brush that forward my first semester in college, and I paid for college all the way up through my doctorate degree by working 40 to 50 hours a week and trying to do something with my life because of what we had grown up in. And so first first week in college, I was sitting on a on a bench in front of the administration building, you know, about nine o'clock at night by myself, and a girl walked up and sat down beside me that I had just said hello to briefly earlier that day. And she said, I want to ask you a question. And I said, Why did you come to me. She said, Well, because when I saw you today, there's something about you that I thought you might have answers for my problem, family problems. So remember first, first week in college, and she asked me a very complicated, detailed family question, and somehow innately, I had all the answers for her. And it even surprised me a little bit. And we talked for 30 minutes, and she got up and went running off happy, and I said to myself, what was that? How did I? How did I know those answers to this complicated matter? And it was like, God speaking to me, that's how giftings work. It's what you do, well, automatically, naturally, without even trying. It just happens. There's a switch turned on, whatever that might be. For me, it was human behavior and understanding the complexities of it and knowing how to solve them. And so when I got that revelation and comprehension of giftings and strengths, I, over the next year or two, decided I was going to go this direction and realize, begin to realize, and a lot of I went to a lot of people to help me get through this psychologically and emotionally, I realized that if you could match up your professional life with your strengths and giftings, I call them, it's the best case scenarios. That's the direction I went.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 8:52

Wow. I for me to thank you for sharing. I don't even know what to say to stories like that that are so riveting and so deeply moving, and what you've made of yourself is absolutely fascinating. And I really try to choke down the tears. I really work hard at that because that that's that's a lot to to embrace. Thank

Dr. Mark Jones: 9:23

you for sharing. Thank you a lot to get through. Yeah, you have to just stay with it. You know, if you don't, you know, you see what the alternative is. And at that moment, you look back and realize, I don't want to go back to this, so I better put a plan together to maximize my potential, if I can understand what it is. And I I got with a lot of people along the way to try to improve my life and to mature my life and to develop my life. And I realized that when you're in survival mode after you've had. Had numerous traumas. When you're in survival mode, you're not thriving, you're just surviving. And when you're in your developmental years, you're not finishing out your development. And I begin to get that understanding and realized I better take charge of my own development. And because my mother was single parent mother, and she would leave at six in the morning to go to work to provide for me and my brother, and would come home at nine o'clock at night, six days a week. And so we realized that we had to manage ourselves since we were in elementary school. We wash clothes, we vacuum floors, we That's a miracle of God. We didn't burn something down, and we made our beds, we washed clothes, we vacuum, we cooked, we washed dishes, did our homework, got to school, made arrangements to get to school and home, and did all that. Since we're in elementary school, it was a little rough, but I can tell you, after looking back at my life, it turned into a good thing, and I realized that when you go through trauma and you have to take charge of your life, you don't have to. You get to take charge your life. Let's say you realize that it helps you manage yourself. If you can go make some decisions to make it a positive, make a positive time in life, and that will make you stronger. Otherwise you downward spiral and you get worse and you stay in a perpetual depressed or an anxiety state. So somehow I got that revelation, I got that understanding. And so my first semester, first two summers of the first two semesters in college, I would read one book, one self help developmental book a week for during the entire summer, just to try to develop my life.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:59

So you've been doing this for a while? Obviously, yes. How do you stay committed to to perform at that peak level of communication, to to help people rise above their paradox? How do you how do you do it?

Dr. Mark Jones: 12:18

Well, it's a little it's more than a job. It's really the only way you can do it, otherwise you'll burn out, like many other people. You know, I help on a daily basis. It's more of a calling. It's more of a purpose beyond the job, and you have to really have that kind of motivation where it's a purpose in life. If you don't, you can't go that long haul so through that much school, that many 1000s of hours to not only get your doctorate degree, I got I got my doctorate degree. And then after you actually graduate with your doctorate degree, if you're going to go the licensing track. You have an additional 3000 hours to just get your license in the state, LMFT, license, marriage, family therapist, and then all of the hours, the schedule you have to the motivation is beyond a job, and that's really how and then you have to manage yourself to where you stay renewed on a regular basis. I often tell everyone, everything we depend on in life, airplane engines, car engines, everything we depend on in life, that's important. We have to take it offline periodically and maintenance it. And we have to do that with ourselves as well.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 13:45

Absolutely, in fact, those are words of wisdom that everybody should do. We talk to a lot of people in the sports world, and we talk about that as a physical manifestation is to take a break, because sometimes they don't know when to take a break. So, and you're talking about it from a mental, emotional perspective. So yes, it's the same thing. So here's, you know, when you think about people like Matt Matera, you know, who was in tremendous need of communicating with you and helping. What about, what about those people that don't want to listen or accept help? How do you, and you know they need it? How do how do you deal with that

Dr. Mark Jones: 14:36

very legitimate question. I deal with that all of the time. How you deal with it is you have to, from my perspective, have to really get an understanding that people needing, needing something alone will not motivate them to do what it takes to get into a good level place, get into alignment. And get into a thriving place in life. They don't do it because they need it. People do it because they want it. But want maybe is not even a powerful enough word. It's okay to be desperate. They have to pursue it. They have to make a choice. Even at the time they make that choice, they are desperate or they're depressed, they have to make a choice. Then they'll let you into their life to help heal, get them healed, help get them retrained. And other than that, you can't force it. You just can't force it. There's no I see people every day who need help, but they don't choose Help, and it's very unfortunate. You could beg them, you could plead with them, you could pressure them, but it doesn't change it. And it's amazing. It's an amazing law. I call it universal law that we have the power to choose.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 16:10

So mental illness has become such a buzzword these days, everybody's talking about it and aware of it, especially since COVID, really, you know, move the needle on the level of mental illness and the struggles that people have with it, but you know, you're obviously doing something about it. But you know, people always say, we need to help those struggling with mental health. What are ways that people can approach that issue and not you know that are not, maybe not licensed, or you know that, like what we're doing here is trying to make people more aware of what, how do you feel about other ways to to take action like that? Well,

Dr. Mark Jones: 16:55

organizations and people, churches, other organizations, need to make it easy for people to have access to them. A lot of times, the governmental agencies, even though maybe they were set up to to be available to help people. You've experienced it, so have I you call an agency, could barely get somebody over the phone. And really it's, it's a bureaucracy, it ends up being that, right? And so if on a on a governmental, county, city, state, federal level, they have to be more accessible, and have to make sure those funds actually get ground level where it helps people who are helping people, helps people who are helping people. Churches get involved, and for the most part, they're doing it. But I even I see even with churches, they they offer prayer which is good, they offer lay counseling which is necessary, but they, I would recommend they do more to bring in professionals that are in alignment with the way they believe that's okay and it's good. It's necessary to help not only the people out that aren't going to their church, but people in their churches. There's a research fact that if a church, for example, has a professional counselor or life coach, whatever the license might be, that provides help for their congregants, the growth in that church is 25% more if they did nothing else different. And so then what we do is we have, we have interns that get involved, answering the phone, reaching out, emailing, sending out email blasts. I'm doing, you know, podcasts like this, to get the word out. And then we have a two day Trinity program, I call it that's an intensive that helps people resolve their past, to make sure they've dealt with their past. And a lot of people are afraid of their past, right? It brings them shame or reminds them of their traumas and and I have, every three months a program, we bring people in from all over America and help make sure they've dealt with their past. And then we retrain them, and I bring in my counselors, life coaches, other professionals to help us. Help us do that. We provide virtual counseling, etc. So what it is is people have to create more ways for those in need to have access to them.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 19:47

I have a two pronged question for you that is regarding the person experiencing suicide or wanting to take their own life. Um. And the one that maybe they're living with, or they're friends with, or they're, you know, you know, related to, that are trying to help, but they're dealing with their with that mental and emotional challenge of, you know, not being able to help, you know. So can you make some suggestions on some tools that maybe our listeners or viewers might be able to to broach you know, in a scenario like that? Yes,

Dr. Mark Jones: 20:33

when it comes to suicide, deep depression, hopelessness, the more hopeless an individual is, the more likely they are to move over into either not wanting to live or planning Suicide, death by suicide, escaping their misery or or actually carrying, carrying it out. And when a person is in the state where they're planning it and carrying out death by suicide, they're not cognitively rational, rationally thinking about, how is this going to affect the children? How's this going to affect the spouse? My relationships, the loved ones, they're not thinking about out in the future, how their children are going to be asked, where's your dad, where's your mom, where's your brother, where's your sister daughter? They don't think about those things that it's a ongoing stigma that's around it, and something they're going to have to work through. And some people live with a level of sorrow, you know, the rest of their life, a level of sorrow, even though they they recover through a grief recovery process. It's a process. Sometimes it's very long process. And so what I would say to people is, get aware and intentionally become aware of those kind of signs of a condition that a person is in. Now, some people are not thinking about suicide, but they use words like, it would be better if I weren't here. Well, those kind of phrases aren't necessarily suicidal ideologies. They're more they're more low self worth, woundedness, low self esteem. I feel rejected. I'm wounded, and I feel down and sad. And so they say those words as a form of an outcry to see if someone will reach in and encourage them. And so it's it's good to know the difference. And on that note, when I often tell and unfortunately, it's often a mother or father, stepmother, stepfather, whoever, maybe when they have a son or daughter or someone in their family that has an outcry that maybe is in the stage or category of suicidal ideologies. They're not planning their suicide, necessarily. They might be, but they start talking about death or maybe be better if I weren't here. What I would also encourage is for mothers and fathers and loved ones not to minimize it and say words like you're just wanting attention. We see that all the time, and then it discourages them more, verifies to the individual that's depressed that they're not valuable enough, they're not being listened to, and now they're being labeled as attention getters. So I would say people should get informed where they understand that when people, when their loved ones have an outcry or a friend, and then if they believe in serious I should reach out to someone, whether it be the church. Some people aren't equipped in the church or in other organizations, reach out to a professional and see if they can get advice, at least sometimes, people who want to who are depressed or sad or down, or they're grieving, or they're they're thinking about dying, or they're planning it, they feel embarrassed if their loved ones reach out to a professional and they resist it. But a professional can give a person a plan, where they a strategy, where, if it gets to a certain point, they can intervene, they can force something to happen and or if you have if son or daughter or a spouse or whoever it might be, a loved one in your home, and they're talking in that way, but they refuse to go to an office a professional. See if you can get a professional on the phone. See if you can do a FaceTime. And talk. But worst case scenario, if that person is locking their door, let's say it's a teenager or young adult, and they're depressed, they're talking about dying, and they lock their door, I tell parents, take that door off. Take it off where they can't isolate themselves, because they need your attention. They need your love. They need your encouragement. They don't need to be criticized. They don't need to have a fight with you, right? They don't need to have confrontation. What do people mostly need? Think about it. They need validation, encouragement, acceptance and love. It reminds me of a Bible verse. Incidentally, the apostle Paul said love meets all the requirements of the law of humanity. How true, right?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 25:54

Yeah. Dr Mark, I want we had a previous guest on that that I learned something extraordinary from based on his experience of two things. One, he was changing the nomenclature of suicide to taking one's life. Is that? Is that valid now? Is that something that people would rather hear that he took his life, or suicide has such a bad connotation? Is there other ways of describing such as,

Dr. Mark Jones: 26:30

you know, by suicide is typically the the realistic way of saying it, yeah, took his life. Could be a way of saying it, but death by suicide is more exact, but it's not a form of shaming someone, or, yeah, condemning them

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:53

and and the second thing that was profound that I learned, that you started to touch off on, or you did mention, but I want to really really emphasized, and that was the one particular guest he actually went into his car. Was so depressed, he took out the gun and he held it into his mouth and pulled the trigger, and nothing happened. And he was so shocked, because he always keeps who was that Secretary.

Unknown: 27:18

Do you remember? Yeah, go ahead now, yeah, well, he

Dr. Spencer Baron: 27:22

shared it with us on our podcast, but and he realized, because he always keeps the magazine full of bullets, and somebody had identified him, spiraling out, and it was one of his, his workmates, that broke into his car, emptied it the magazine, and so now he had a he was not only shocked into the realization that he has a second opportunity to live, but somebody cared enough to do that. And what he said was was fascinating. He said the reason why he wanted to take his life is because he felt he was a burden to everybody else. And it wasn't even about him. It was, I mean, it wasn't necessarily about his worth, worthlessness. It was about how he felt about the loved ones that he burdened with his level of depression.

Dr. Mark Jones: 28:15

That is definitely another aspect of how people get into a bad place. They could be better if they weren't here or or die at their own hands. They're thinking about others. So there's so many various different reasons, internal reasons, emotional, psychological, why people get into that state, but I can tell you when a person is in that state they are also in a very depressed, hopeless state, hopeless that they can do anything to not be a burden or stop something to not be a burden. They get into a deep, emotionally unstable place where their cognitive, rational reasoning. Part of their brain is not functioning, and they're functioning primary by emotions. But the emotions in those cases are typically emotions that are recurring. They're repetitive, and they're very strong, and they override, they override a person's reasoning and rationale about what that's going to lead to. They're thinking about a burden to them the other people. The reason they're not thinking rational is it will be a burden to them if this person, if they go to this person's funeral or find them, and then they're traumatized for the rest of their life, they have that image in their mind, embedded inside of their memory, and that they can't get out so see, it's not rational thinking. It's a spiritual problem. It's an emotional problem. It's a psychological problem. When somebody gets into that state and they can't come out of it alone, by themselves. So that's why they need help. Hmm,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 30:01

Hey, Doc, you know, a lot of time in our world, we'll hear you learn more from your mistakes and your successes in your world. That's a whole different meaning. Has there any been any, whether you tried to help, that you couldn't that really impacted you, that you learned from, that you took those lessons and actually helped somebody else.

Dr. Mark Jones: 30:24

Yeah, absolutely. And on that point, that's why I encourage people, when you go through a painful experience, a traumatic experience, a tough time in life, make a choice that it's going to make you stronger and you're going to pursue more knowledge and grow in it. Otherwise, it'll, it'll drag you in to a bad emotional place, right? So yes, I remember. I remember one man who was depressed. He had, he and his wife had divorced, and he was an attorney, and he actually in my building way back, many years ago, 20 years ago, I would talk to him once a day, encourage him. And he because of the visitation orders, he couldn't see his children as often as he wanted. And then right about the time his his wife had remarried, and she sued him again for more child support. And this had happened like three different times. And I talked to him that day for about 20 minutes in his office, and I left, I found out the next morning that he had died by suicide. He had shot himself that night. And as a counselor, and even if you weren't a counselor, but as a licensed professional, I said to myself, wow, why didn't I pick up on that? Why didn't I know what he was going to do, and I could have maybe intervened, but let me tell you, that type of regret and responsibility we place on ourselves doesn't doesn't have the power, doesn't have the ability to intervene into that kind of scenario, and sometimes You just can't determine or discern or pick up on signs. And you know, you can't save everyone. You try. You do your best, right? You can't save everyone. Can't save everyone. You try. And so that was a I worked on that one for a number of months, thinking about that every time I walk by his office. There's been a number of people through the years that I saw them one day, then got a phone call that night or the next day that they had died by suicide, and and then I have to help the family members who were deeply traumatized, forever traumatized, because they were the ones who found their loved one. And that image walking into a room or walking outside and seeing the seeing, not just the death, but everything that goes with it, that image of their loved one in front of them. They're the ones that found them. Then I have they have to have help because of what they saw and what they experienced.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 33:36

You know, I'm so glad you just brought that up, because that's what I kind of wanted to go there's this ripple effect when somebody takes your life and what you do, you feel as is the biggest misconception with this, from those who die from suicide, especially, and the people left behind to have to pick up the pieces.

Dr. Mark Jones: 33:59

That's the part that's not talked about enough, and that is the trauma in the individual's life that are left that have to deal with that that live in the same home where maybe they found their loved one or a car, and they can't even get around that car again, or they have to sell their home. And some people are not positioned to sell their home, so they actually have to work through seeing that room, seeing that bedroom, over and over and over. That takes that takes some extensive work, because there are triggers, memories of trauma, embeds memories, and then those memories get triggered and activated by something in the present moving forward that reminds the brain of the trauma. And then the trauma gets activated and voluntarily, whether a person wants it or not, further. More. As I mentioned earlier in the podcast, the brain is on high alert with everyone. 100% of people who go through trauma, their brain is on high alert in the psychological world, that's called hyper vigilance. And brain on high alert happens involuntarily, whether you want it to or not. So the brain in its protective mechanism with memory, so to speak, is on a very high Qt the throttle all the way up, almost watching and listening for any sign of the next trauma, so that they could either prevent it or brace for it. And so that's another level of anxiety that people go through, in addition to remembering feeling it, and they even have muscle memory reactions as a result of it, nausea, latent pain, tension, etc. So affecting the thyroid, affecting the adrenal glands. It's a constant stress, kind of similar to generalized anxiety that often comes with PTSD. And people that have walked in and seen their loved one deceased in front of them and seen the horror, they're all affected. They're all traumatized, and they all need someone to help them to get through that. When you go through that, you can't get through that healthily, trying to deal with it yourself. You have to have help.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 36:32

What's some action steps that for those listening to maybe have gone through that until they can get help? What would the first thing you would tell them,

Dr. Mark Jones: 36:42

first thing I tell them is understand how serious it is. You know, don't minimize something, insult someone that's going through a hard time by saying something like you just want attention. It's not that bad. You always do these kind of things, right? So, so that's the very that's the very first thing is, you know, have compassion and mercy on someone and begin to encourage them. That's the very first that's the very first thing a person should do, whether that be a loved one, a friend, whoever it is. And then while you're contacting a professional as well. And then we have my my daughter just she's one of my counselors, and she's my office manager. She has been on the phone free of charge, without getting paid for it, with some of her teenage clients all night, every 30 minutes, talking to them, keeping them alive through the night, numerous times. Now that takes some commitment, right? And often, family members don't even do something like that because maybe they feel inconvenienced or something of that nature. And so I think it's a getting a level of knowledge to answer your question about Doctor Carey of the seriousness of it, and don't criticize people. Don't condemn people. You encourage them. I would call it. You encourage people, and then that gives them a little bit of hope. Maybe you're not equipped to really bring them out of the condition they're in, but in that moment, they just need hope. And so I was that's the first thing. So identify whatever classification of seriousness it is, and then give someone hope. First two things,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 38:42

I got one more question. In the movies, I want to see how accurate this is. In the movies, you when something like that happens, you see someone come up and hug them and whisper, it's not your fault in their ear. How powerful is that? In reality,

Dr. Mark Jones: 38:55

it could, it could really help, help someone. Because when a person is in a state of of depression, sadness, grief, they're feeling down. They most of the time, do feel. Maybe they don't believe it, but maybe they believe it. See, feeling is a little different than believing something, believe believing something more established down inside of them, right? Like a fact, a feeling varies in its intensity, but a person can feel like it's their fault because they feel ashamed for even having those thoughts or being in that condition or putting them and like you were saying earlier, someone else in a position to have to encourage them that they're not strong enough to get out of it themselves. So it's not your fault. It's a it's a good phrase. It is a good encouragement phrase, right? To try to relieve that secondary burden of not only are they depressed, but it's their fault on top. That. So that's a good thing to say. Could help them.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:05

You deal with some tremendous stories about pain and suffering that other people experience. Obviously, you've taken on that responsibility to listen. How do you how do you protect yourself and and that's part one, how do you protect yourself and and purge some of the ill feeling at the end of the day so it doesn't consume you? But secondly is, how do you or what do you tell the family members or the the other therapists or first responders, they're dealing with that weight of someone else's suffering,

Dr. Mark Jones: 40:45

yeah, well, that's right. Well, I'll tell you what I do every day, twice a day minimum. I have a regiment set up. It's my system, it's my routine, and I have that routine set up intentionally to renew myself on an ongoing basis, positionally, repetitively, consistently and repetitiously, two key words, right? If you're going to maintain something consistently repetition, the way you guarantee that is, you set up your system to keep yourself renewed. So what I do is I have certain declarations, I have certain scriptures that I've selected, certain songs that I've selected words declarations I say over myself, and also I stay away from listening to things that could, you know, get me down, and I get myself into a place to where I stay in this healthy parameter and understand my own boundaries and knowing that I'm going to have to face and help people with their most traumatized times, their most depressed times, with various symptoms, marital problems, whatever, molestations, rapes, murders, deaths, that's what we deal with every day, helping people through those times. So you have to keep yourself renewed. So I do that. I call it positionally, every day. And then, as I said earlier, there's we, my wife and I sit down. We've been married 44 years, and we sit down on a regular basis, and we pull the calendar out and we schedule times off on the calendar. We don't wait till we have time, because you won't have time, right? I mean, if you're even halfway busy in life, your calendar will take you over, right? Your schedule will right. So we sit down and we arrange it on the calendar, and it's also on that note, some people don't have this blessing not condemning them. It's it's sometimes very hard to find somebody that will encourage you and not want to fight with you and their level. And so it's the other. The other good thing about that is I'm complimenting my wife having somebody who is level, who's encouraging, who keeps herself in a good place as well. So we do that individually. We we renew ourselves and take time off, and then we do that together as well, both and so to have a wife who I work 40 to 50 hours a week while I was in undergraduate and graduate school, I worked 4050 hours a week, paid cash for school, and then after I got graduated, got with my license 1000s of hours, and then I had to build my practice and to have a wife who is not home mad at you because you didn't get home at five o'clock is a blessing, I can tell you that. And so that's another factor in this, is choosing or being in a relationship with someone who is also healthy, right, and wants a healthy, peaceful relationship. And I work with people all the time on that, right, because they're arguing, cussing each other out at the house every day. I'm going to tell you, it's hard to stay level if you've got that going on in your home, right? And so I just wanted to talk about that one for a minute as well, and then also develop relationships, you know, with people who won't pull you down as far as always wanting to have drama with you, finding something wrong, having a negative view on life. Even though our minds can track what we don't like and get negative, there's a difference between that and someone who lives in that kind of a state. So you have to select how close you get who you invite into your life, because you do get influenced. That doesn't mean we. Condemn someone else. It just means we have we know what level of peace and light heartedness we need to live in. So there's a lot of information that comes to my mind when you ask those ask those questions, so you stay renewed, take time off. And whenever you take time off, the time off I'm talking about is not vacation time, because I know people, it's happened to us. We'll come back from a vacation and then have to take a vacation. Take them off to recover from our vacation, right? And so it's time off is particularly tailor made for recovery. You choose an environment that's conducive to your recovery, what you enjoy, what you like, and you alert everyone and notify everyone for 24 hours, I'm offline. Don't text me. Don't call me, and maybe even assign somebody to take your calls, emails, get that all away from you and do what renews you, recovers you, whatever songs, whatever teachings, staring at the outdoors, staring at the fireplace, the lake, the beach, whatever it is the mountains, choose your environment that you Like to recover and do what it takes for you to recover, and during that time, don't have demands, don't have requirements. And so that's recovery time, right? That's different than vacation.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 46:34

That is beautiful. You You said something earlier that I recognize a perspective that if you want to know who you are, look at the people that you've surrounded yourself with. That's one. And I have to laugh, because back when I remember graduating from chiropractic college and was enduring a tremendous amount of stress with that and my best friend was an alcoholic, and I noticed that, and I didn't drink. I never drank. I was always taking care of him, and I started thinking to myself, That's not me, that's a bad that's not a good, great guy, very funny, super, you know, intelligent, but I had to get away from my best friend, because that was not it didn't feed my emotional perspective the right way. So thank

Dr. Mark Jones: 47:26

you very elaborate on very good point. And I like to say that you can select depending on the level of health and peace you want to be at and encouragement, strength and life. You have to select how close you can have an acquaintance, right? That's you love to be around, but it's not healthy, so you have to put them in either the socializing category or a little bit closer the acquaintance category. But the people who are close to you have to be level, healthy and in a place that you want to be, because you do influence each other, whether we like it or not, and so I like to word it that way, and that usually helps people where they don't totally don't speak to someone they like, but they put them in a certain category in that relationship,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 48:18

and then You went downhill and started hanging out with me,

Dr. Mark Jones: 48:24

you broke all your standards and values.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:31

I didn't know how to deal with a non alcoholic. Oh, my gosh. Oh, Dr, Mark, man, tell me, tell us. You know, I noticed that I've noticed signs around my neighborhood that it's a small blue sign with white lettering that says, you know, if you have having a, like, an emotional issue or something like that, call not call 988, or something like that. It's the new, you know, self help number to call what? What are the things can can we as a society do to make an impact on prevention and or healing? Any suggestions that you might have?

Dr. Mark Jones: 49:16

Yeah, absolutely. Look around you and your life, and be aware of people and what they're going through, and inquire how you doing today. You know, reach out. And what I've found is simple reaching out to people, much less providing seminars, podcast trainings, etc, which we all do, begin to reach out to people and have more of a nurturing inquiry, you know, for them, how you doing today? And that alone when, if someone is in a bad place or discouraged, even maybe they're not depressed, they're discouraged. Or down for whatever reason. When someone reaches out to them and ask them how they're doing, or you have a good day, God bless you. It helps them in the moment, it says, Okay, I'm valuable enough. Somebody, somebody reached out, asked me a question. I'll tell you me and my wife had done that at the heb line for heaven's sakes, in our store in San Antonio, we'll just say, How you doing, Dave, you know, God bless you. And their expression changes. Yeah, right, right, on the spot. Oh, yeah, it's a simple, practical boots on the ground, so to speak. That's Matt materus terminology, right? A way to encourage people as you go. And if you look around, how many people we briefly interact with, you know, on a daily basis, not not to mention 365, days a year, right? How many people we can encourage? So I would say that's where you start first. That's more practical. We're in control of that, and it's situational as we go. You don't have to spend hours to encourage someone. You can just use one phrase.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:11

Dr Mark, I do want to mention one thing. Dr Terry, I know you're going to say something, but the we are. We had a previous guest. Dr Tom Mayer, I

Unknown: 51:18

was going to just say that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:22

I let me he, he's, he's a emergency room doc, but he was like a first responder for the he's director of the NFL Players Association, stuff like that. But anyway, beyond that, he made a suggestion that was so profound. It was that he said that they compared a antidepressant medication in a study versus reaching out to three people a day that you haven't spoken to in a while. So what the heck I tried it out? He said that that was more effective than the antidepressant i i did that. I did that. I've been doing that, and I'm going to tell you, not only did I feel these were text messages, not only did I feel the mood of the people in the textbook like, Wow, thank you so much. And it was, you could feel that it made me feel good when it was purposefully for them,

Dr. Mark Jones: 52:20

that's correct. Well, that's an accurate research fact, and I often encourage people and advise them if they're down or depressed, maybe they're not depressed, maybe they're just down for some reason, begin to reach out to someone else and even maybe help someone else, even though, and it helps you, yeah, it helps them, but it indeed helps you. It's a, it's that's a factual research.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:50

Oh, man, there was a one that I reached out to that she was so pleased. I've known her since seventh grade, and she was, she told me that she was getting surgery, heart surgery in the following week. And, you know, wish me luck and all that. So, man, I put that in my calendar, and I knew that morning that I went and texted she, can I just tell you how she was so blown away that I did that, that it makes me It may, you know, selfishly, it made me really happy about that. So yeah, thanks for letting me it's

Dr. Mark Jones: 53:26

a wedding. That's the way to do it. We're still helping. We have a we have a standard or motto in our practice. I have, I have 10 counselors of various different kind of licenses and certifications, psychiatric nurse practitioner, psychologist, therapist, faith based counselors, life coaches and I, we put all that, an array of combination of professionals together to help as much the population as we can. Then we have a 501, c3 where we help single parents and we we reach out and do as much as as we can. But my point with that is that's on that level, but on a one to one level, you can impact a lot of people, right?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:15

All right. Well, Dr, Terry, did you have anything you wanted to mention? Because I'm going to go right into rapid fire.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 54:21

No, I was ready. Said the same thing about the three questions, action steps here I covered it. Awesome. Stole my thunder, man.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:34

I guess we could say Great minds think alike. But Dr Mark Jones, we're entering the final phase of our program, and it is often a fun one called the rapid fire questions. I got five questions for you. We would prefer you answering them briefly, but gosh darn it, we get caught up all the time, so have at it, man. But try to be brief, right? You ready for question number one? Yes, sir. All right. Dr Jones, we know you've got some serious vocals. You've even belted out the national anthem at a rodeo, but if you had to pick one song to sing as in a packed arena for your life, what your go to power ballad? And can you give us just a little taste of it?

Dr. Mark Jones: 55:23

Yeah, God bless the USA. Is one that I sing often. I sing all the anthems at the San Antonio rodeo for 27 years, which was about 600 anthems sang in front of 18,000 people a night. But that was the national anthem, and everybody likes the national anthem. God bless the USA. I've sung not quite as often, but in many different venues. I've sung it. I've sung it in church. I've sung it in public events, at goblet at fundraisers, wherever it might be for the military, first responders, and it's people that have given their life literally, and families who have loved ones, who have given their life in some way so we can have freedom in this country, that have shed blood. When you sing that song, it speaks to them, right? And so that's the first one that comes to my mind. And the other one is amazing grace, old song we grew up. You know? Why I like that song is because we all need Amazing Grace, right? All of us need it. And I started singing that in that old church where we grew up, when we were when we were young, during our traumatic experiences. And so that became something that encouraged

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:50

me, aside from those being a daily affirmation That's brilliant, the fact that our acoustics aren't the best, but I'll depend on our engineer to make your voice sound impeccable. So can you give us a just a quick taste of what you sound like? All right,

Unknown: 57:08

from the lakes of Minnesota to the hills of Tennessee cross the plains of Texas, from sea to shining the sea. Detroit, down to Houston, New York to LA, there's pride in every American Heart. It's time we stand and say,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:42

I all right, man, you've got, I think I've experienced all spectrums of emotion today, the Goosebumps scale. Thank you. That was it got me far. Your voice sounds so cool. It's very empowering. Thank you.

Unknown: 58:02

I will buy your, buy your album and play yeah, my affirmation every day, yeah.

Dr. Mark Jones: 58:07

A little, a little side note, yeah, yeah. If you listen to George Jones Sing, oh yeah, and how sometimes he'll say, Oh, come I do the same thing. You know why we're cousins.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:21

Oh, come on. George Jones, yep,

Dr. Mark Jones: 58:25

I knew him when he was married to Tammy Wynette, we would come to San Antonio and have a concert. And I remember one time in 1974 I met he and Tammy out back. We visited for an hour, and before we left, we said a prayer together. And, you know, we would talk on, on and off through through the years, but he went through a lot of, a lot of rough times in his life as well. But every time I hit some of the notes like that, we don't have exact same quality sound, you know, texture to our voices, but we do some of the things alike. Wow,

Unknown: 59:02

wow. That's outstanding. I love that,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 59:10

and it's fascinating because it probably you inherited some of that DNA to be able to sing great All right. Question,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 59:19

do you have any recording that's on the internet of you singing Amazing Grace.

Unknown: 59:24

Let's see. I don't know

Dr. Mark Jones: 59:26

if I have amazing grace. I think I have won the old rugged cross, and I have many of them, God bless USA on the internet, and the national anthem. Rodeos, I open up for country artist Aaron Watson and a bunch of others, and I sing those songs. You can find those on the internet. Not sure about amazing grace on the on the old rugged cross. We were on a trip, and it was me and my wife, oldest daughter and her husband. We were coming back from Oklahoma. Durant Oklahoma, because we're registered with the Department of the Interior and the Choctaw Nation. We're registered Choctaw Native Americans. I don't look like it. My skin doesn't look like it. But if you know what Choctaw looks like, you know my nose and forehead look that way. Well, we were, we were coming back from Durant, visiting Durant Oklahoma, which is where headquarters is. We stopped at a coffee shop in North Texas. Walked in to get coffee. There was a piano there, and so I thought, I'm just going to sit down. Nobody will probably mind that. Maybe they'll like it. And I started playing the old rugged cross. My daughter stepped in. She's a great singer. Incidentally, she now opens up. We just, she just opened up for the rodeo ball, singing the national anthem before trace Adkins sang. And so we just started singing the old road good cross there, and and, and somebody, her husband, or my wife, recorded it. That's somewhere online as well. So we, we do those kind of things, you know, impromptu, but also officially, Amazing Grace. I don't know if I haven't recorded

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:04

Well, if you find it, send it to me. That's a that has some deep meaning in my family history. So I'd love to hear that

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:01:10

great song. We all need Amazing Grace. We all do

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:14

okay. So I got through. We only got through. Question number one, I get so caught up. I didn't realize that our timing, but we're good. Question number two, Dr Jones, let's say you're trapped in an escape room with Sigmund Freud, a rodeo clown and a psychic who's only right 50% of the time. And you want you have only one hour to break free from this whole thing. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:01:40

So the the Sigmund Freud is only accurate 50% of the time.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:50

Oh, that's great. All right, you know why? No, why

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:01:55

is because he actually never practice every day like we do, and experienced real life problems. He knew what he was talking about Absolutely. People have benefited from his research and his knowledge, you know, for years. But what I found out is, once you actually practice, yeah, and you have 1000s of hours, 100,000 hours like I do you have a little bit additional perspective on it.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:27

That is fantastic. All right, we're going to move straight to question number three. Thank you for answering. That was a good one. You can choose any fictional character from TV, movies or books to be your therapy to be your therapy client, who are you sitting down with? And what's the first thing you say to them? Therapy

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:02:46

client, my client, your client, yes. Denzel Washington,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:51

really,

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:02:53

yeah, because, you know, why not? Just because I would have the opportunity, I would love the opportunity, you know, to visit with him, yeah, but I would have the opportunity to be a blessing for me if he needed help. For me, be able to encourage or help him. You know why? Because even in his movies, some of them, you know, man on fire, where he you know, protect, use the bodyguard you know. And he shot. He pulled the trigger in that gun too in that movie, and the bullet didn't fire and and so he he talks a lot in his life about God and encouraging people and helping people, and in his way, he does it in his movies. He does he goes and speaks and in a college graduations, so be my pleasure not only to speak to him, but if he needed any kind of encouragement and through his life, that would be him. Was

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:49

it? One of my favorite movies was where this was like in the year 3000 or something like that, and he was protecting the book of the Eli Eli, that's what the book of Elijah right protecting

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:04:07

the Bible. And he has studied it so much that he memorized it and he gave his life for it. That's what I'm talking about.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:04:15

I got goosebumps again. Alright. Here we go. Alright. Move. Moving right along. Question number four, what little thing that some people may miss makes you smile?

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:04:27

Something that people may miss makes me smile is someone else who part of their purpose in life is doing something to help or improve someone else's life. Sometimes that can be so subtle, sometimes it's real obvious, and they may or may not be appreciated for it. So that makes me smile when I look at someone and realize they're doing something to help someone else's life. Life, because, you know, it's easy to be selfish, right on this earth, easy to think about ourselves primarily, but when you help someone else, you're adding to their quality of life, even if it's for a moment.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:05:14

I agree. I agree. Sincerely agree. Question number five, I'm afraid of your answer, because I've already, you've already messed me up a few times already. But Dr Jones, if you could sit down with your younger self at the toughest moment in your life and say just one sentence to that man or that young boy, or what would it be you're

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:05:41

going to get through this. God will never leave you or forsake you. There's an answer to this.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:05:49

And with that, we wrap it up. That was today. Was a tremendous program. Thank you, Doctor Jones, I appreciate you very, very, very much and all that you do for those that need

Dr. Mark Jones: 1:06:00

you, thank you. Appreciate you for what you're doing, and I pray you stay in health, and it's been my pleasure. Thanks for having me on

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:06:14

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast, catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.