How Do You Heal When You Can’t Fix It? Camille Block on Grace, Grit, and Secondhand Suffering

Caring for a loved one who is suffering can be one of the most heartbreaking and exhausting journeys a person can take. It’s a path filled with love, but also with emotional weight, isolation, and the painful realization that you can’t always make things better. On this episode of the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we welcome Camille Block, author of Hope for Secondhand Suffering: Tools for the Heart When You Can’t Fix Your Loved One’s Pain.

Camille’s story is one of resilience, advocacy, and learning to find peace in the middle of the storm. As a dedicated caregiver to her brother Kevin, she has experienced the silent struggles that come with witnessing a loved one’s pain while having no way to take it away. Through years of challenges, she has discovered strategies to not only ensure Kevin’s voice is heard but also to protect her own well-being.

In this heartfelt episode, we explore:
The pivotal moment that changed Camille’s life and made her a caregiver
How she helped Kevin communicate through eye-gaze technology and how other caregivers can amplify their loved one’s voice
The mental and emotional toll of caregiving, and how to prevent burnout
Practical ways to find balance between self-care and caregiving responsibilities
The role of community and support networks in navigating the weight of secondhand suffering
How to cherish moments of joy even in difficult circumstances
Key lessons from Camille’s journey that offer guidance and hope to caregivers

Whether you’re a caregiver yourself, love someone who is struggling, or just want to better understand the emotional weight of advocacy, this conversation will touch your heart and provide real, compassionate solutions.

Find Camille Block’s book, Hope for Secondhand Suffering, Tools for the Heart When You Can’t Fix Your Loved One’s Pain - HERE

Follow Camille Block and her work through her Website – www.camilleblock.cc 

Follow Camille Block on her social media accounts: @camilleblock.author

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/camilleblock.author/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camilleblock.author

 Tune in now and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. Because even when you can’t fix the pain, there is still hope.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron: 0:01

What happens when love isn't enough to take away someone's pain, when you're forced to watch a loved one suffer, powerless to fix it? How do you keep going today, we welcome Camille Block, an author advocate and a caregiver who has absolutely walked this road and found purpose in this struggle. In her new book hope for secondhand suffering, she shares the tools and the truths that she's learned while caring for her own brother, Kevin, who has cerebral palsy. This episode is for the weary, the selfless of the ones holding it all together. If you've ever felt unseen in your own pain, this conversation will speak right to your heart. Stay with us.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:51

All right, well, I'm super excited for this one, Camille block, and, yeah, we've been friends for a while now, and I've been hearing about this story for quite a long time, and how it's been evolving. And I can't wait for the audience to hear about this, and when I shared it with Dr Spencer, he just gave me a double thumbs up. So I'm really excited that this is something a lot of people go through. So really excited to have you on your show,

Camile Block: 1:17

glad to be here.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:20

So the story that we've all been that they've been going through, is you've been a caregiver of a special needs brother, well, obviously your whole life, and a lot of people are out there are suffering, and in fact, you wrote the book and about the second hand suffering. So can you share the pivotal moment when you assumed the role of a caregiver for your brother, Kevin, and the initial challenges you did face and how you navigated these in the early days. Because a lot of people think of the parents as a caregiver. You're the sister. That's a caregiver,

Camile Block: 1:56

sure. Well, thank you for having me. My brother was born about three and a half years after I was and they didn't quite know what was going on, but they knew something was a little off. And so I remember as a young girl, big sister to him, feeling very important in his life, like I was his protector. And because the word that they used before the word Special Needs existed, they called him special and and he was and I kind of just had this love, just incredible love connection with him at an early age. So my job was to sit with him watching Sesame Street or Mr. Rogers or Romper Room, and hold his head up because his head drooped to the right, and he had a special chair because he couldn't ever sit up on his own. We didn't really know exactly all the details, what was right, but what was going on. But basically, he ended up having a diagnosis of cerebral palsy. We didn't realize how severe it would be at the time, but I would say I wasn't his caregiver as a child. I was his protector. I felt very connected, but he ended up being placed in a home at age three and a half actually, which was kind of, sadly, the what they did back in the early 70s. And so that's a whole story, but the as a as you asked the moment I became his caregiver in my adult life, is really probably the question, because I was more on the outside looking in as a child, living almost a double life, but my heart was always connected with him in a deep way. But as an adult, you know, I got married and had three kids and all that, but it was when my mom kind of left the picture and my dad kind of took over. My mom had dementia and some some strokes that was really bad, but kind of around the time when, I would say the mid 2010 time frame, I really started kicking in and becoming an advocate for my brother, and then a few years later, became a co medical conservator with my dad. And so I'd say my adult life, it's probably been the last 15 years that I've been a pretty darn involved sister, medical conservator and advocate for my brother. Caregiver is hard for me to say, because he's not living with me. The people that care for him are the people that are hired by the group home slash institution where he lives, and I have great respect for them, but I'm not doing the day to day, but the emotional day to day. Yes, the advocacy, yes, the fight for his life, fight for his rights, fight for pretty much everything. Yes, I'm a caregiver in that sense. Well, let's

Dr. Terry Weyman: 4:37

just, let's partly off of that, because there's been so many times when, when you and I have gathered that you're just distraught with all the the stuff that you have to fight for, just for this poor man to have a as normal of a life as he possibly can, which would be the advocacy that you were talking about, what strategies and and stuff that you have had to fight for that a lot of people maybe not think about. But. Um, when it comes to if they have someone in their life in a similar situation, man, you've kind of bat for this. Your brother. Can you, you know, empower some people that are listening of what you have gone through?

Camile Block: 5:14

Yeah, I can, I can, I can do my best here. Um, it's been so many things, so many diverse things, but I would say the number one thing that comes to mind is medical health. And you know, my brother is nonverbal. He has no voice, literally. And so when I really kicked in as a caregiver slash advocate in the medical area was probably 2017 16, somewhere in there, and he had a progressively worse pain. That was an obvious pain where he was screaming, like screaming, turning red in these episodes where, like, nobody knew what was going on. And I remember visiting him and the care, the caregivers that the staff there saying, Oh, we think he just wants attention. Like, what are you talking about? No, he's in pain. Can you not tell him? And and, and so they, they, they didn't know. They, they had other people to take care of. And so I started realizing something was really wrong, and it turned into, uh, eventually affecting his oxygen level and all his vitals, which then they're under licensing to send him to the ER. So then from the ER, we went on an eight week journey in the hospital, and it was as combination of hospital and skilled nursing, and he continued having unknown pain and screaming fits. And my brother is a really pretty joyful guy, given his situation, beautifully joyful, and something was really wrong, and nobody could figure out what it was. The doctors couldn't, the nurses, the staff, and there's only so much they can do. And so my dad and I couldn't leave him. My dad and I took turns, and for eight weeks straight, weeks we were by his side. And that was a very, very hard time, very dark time, and for the most of the time, the first half, I was a victim. I was like, I don't know what to do. I just know we have to fix this. We can't leave him in pain. And so they do what they could to make him comfortable and have moments of joy and moments of like, contentment. And then he would do it again. I'm like, something's wrong. And I probably halfway through that eight weeks, I started realizing that it was in his gut, and so he would have relief when I push on his gut. And so So basically the I guess the long, very long story short, is it was a very dark time. I didn't understand that I had just as much authority as the doctors in terms of knowing my brother, not in terms of medical training, of course, but I knew something was wrong in my gut, and I started trusting my instinct. And he was in a skilled nursing one day, and it just got too much. We were doing deep suctioning because he had aspiration pneumonia. I mean, I mean, he was, he looked like he was dying. And I finally said, I finally told all the skilled nursing people I need to get him out of here. He needs to go to a hospital. Something is wrong. And I requested a hospital different than the one before, which was closer to our home. We got there, I got to know all the right doctors. I actually ended up firing some doctors. It's like, when they said, Oh, we don't know. And I'm like, Well, you know what you need to know. And so I just my my I got fire in my belly, and I ended up realizing that I think it's his G Tube formula, because it was coming to his gut. So I ended up looking at the ingredients, and I realized he's getting fed corn syrup and and there's nothing, there's nothing redeeming. They're feeding him in his G tube. So I went on a battle. Ended up nine months, but basically that was when I turned the corner, and I felt like, you know what? I figured this out, and it ended up I was right. Every I got everybody in line. I had to fight for insurance to cover it, but I fought for a different G Tube formula, and it sure enough, that ended up being the solution. So that's the big story, where the shift happened, when I realized I can trust my gut. I am. I'm not a victim. The doctors aren't always the experts, especially with someone you love and you know them, and that kind of changed my my my whole confidence of of my role in my brother's life, so that that's, there's many stories, but I'd say the medical one is still, to this day, something I'm doing. And now, you know, I think he's healthier than he's ever been, but it's because I'm asking the questions. I'm getting the second opinions, I'm getting the third opinions. I'm fighting insurance, I'm I'm going with my gut, and my gut tends to be right on my brother, and it's been so that's I'll let you ask more questions, but I can share more stories. That's the one that kind of is the big one of the turning

Dr. Terry Weyman: 9:30

point before Dr Spencer jumps in. I want to go back because you said he has no voice. He can't speak yet. You got him into an eye gaze technology. Can you kind of talk just a little bit about that? Because so now you can communicate with them. And that was so powerful.

Camile Block: 9:47

Well, literally, I'm in the middle of that right now. We just showed him yesterday this new equipment. It still has to be program is set up. It's going to be a journey. I need to hire a trainer. But, yeah, I mean, we. Played around with it a little bit. And his eyes, he's always had great communication with his eyes. And so again, I had to fight for him to the right to be tested on this. There was a whole journey in that. It's been since 2019 we were ready to have all this, ready to go in 2020 and then they shut everything down and we couldn't see him for 14 months. That's a whole another story. But yeah, so right now he has a piece of equipment that, if he can be trained, which I believe 100% he can, he passed the test, we can program this device with pictures and words, and we can try to teach him what they mean. He can't read, or anything. So a lot of times it's gonna be pictures, but if he stares at it for a certain number of seconds that we can program two to three where, you know, we know he's actually holding a stair, it will then speak what he wants. And I'm excited. I don't know. I mean, he, I've kind of learned this non verbal language with him, and I think a lot of his staff does. He smiles, he cries, he he, um, he can look like he's in pain, so we've kind of figured out. But how much better would it be if he can say, I actually I'm hungry, or I, you know, I want to watch a TV show, or I want to see my sister, or things like that, and so I'm excited.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:14

How old is Kevin? He's 54 isn't that great? You could, you know, teach an old dog new trick. Not that he's old, I'm old, but you can teach an old dog new tricks and that you don't give up. And I think that's That in itself, it deserves a lot of merit. So thanks for sharing that. You said something about a a G Tube. Could you explain to our lay audience, what how he is actually fed?

Camile Block: 11:40

Yes, and that's a whole nother story, but yes, a G Tube is basically a hole in your stomach where you can put a tube in. And there's different types of G tubes are called different things, J tube, G Tube. And for my brother, it goes right into his stomach. So the basically you can feed him formula, liquid, medicines, everything through the tube. So the story with my brother is, and this is before I became an advocate. I was probably away living when I first got married in Bay Area and when this happened, but my brother kept getting aspiration pneumonia, and they the doctors at the time, of course, things have changed. The GI doctors at the time said, Oh, you need to just take away all food and drink and because that's a risk of aspiration pneumonia. You know, he's having this too much, and let's just feed him through G Tube. And my parents, with a Generation Trust, trust the doctor and and there's, there's truth, he was also losing weight. He was very, I think he was like, in the 80 pound range, like he wasn't getting enough nutrition. But to me, I would challenge that and say, Well, maybe it's because the staff doesn't have the time to feed, like, take the time to actually feed it, because he loved to eat. He absolutely loved to eat and drink. So it might be a different issue than just he's not getting enough nutrition. Maybe there's, maybe there's a timing issue, like how much they're stopping feeding him before he's done, you know. So if I was there and my now self back then, I probably would have asked those questions, but I wasn't in the picture in terms of having a vote at all at that stage. So they put this in, and they actually took away all food and drink, and that's when my empathy kicked up to the highest level, and I knew this was in us, so sad. This was one joy in life. So it turns out, later, fast forward, he G tubes are just as much the cause of aspiration pneumonia as regular food and swallowing. He was getting it even when he had the G tube and he wasn't having eating and drinking. So I either went on a fight to get him his food back. So oral gratification now is part of his life. He has three meals a day. This has been a long journey, but we're finally, like, he's with people. I've said this is a social event. This is not just like, put him in a closet and feed him like a spoonful of apples. This is like a real meal. So I've been working with a doctor, and so now he can have three meals a day and even some snacks, and oh my gosh, it's made such a difference as quality of life, but he still has a G tube, and it's helpful for medications, for times. You know, I've got him on a whole food based now formula, which that was a whole nother battle. But, yeah, he's healthier because of what we're putting in his body now. And he's having the oral, oral gratification, joy of actually eating real food now.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 14:17

Camille, since our perspective of our podcast is oftentimes mental, nutritional, physical. I want to ask you a little bit about the nutritional thing that you were so sharp in identifying. And was he since the onset of the G tube was were they feeding him the same formula every day?

Camile Block: 14:38

Oh, yeah, the formula of corn syrup. Yes, that was the first Youtube that I fought for another formula later, because they don't let you have the one you really want at first. They make you try each one and progressive over the years. And if they fail, then you can't just use logic and say, these ingredients is what I want. It's proven it's healthy. You can't do that. You have to, like, try all the. Crappy one, excuse me first. And then before you get to the good stuff, there's

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:04

something to be said about having the same thing every single day. And I'm sure you develop these sensitivities to well, especially something is like corn syrup, I can't imagine every day. But anyway, that's a interesting point that we can take in our own healthy lives, that you know we are creatures of habit and eating the same thing every day. Can develop food sensitivities to begin with, and we don't even know why we're getting sick. So thanks. Just wanted to parlay that into what you know our listeners might be experiencing on their own. But thank you for sharing that. Now, one of the other challenges that that a lot of our listeners and viewers have is multitasking. You know, some of us are not very good multitaskers. Some of us are great at multitasking, but you have this massive distraction off to one side, not to mention you have three children, you know, and a husband and your own life. How do you how do you prioritize your own mental and physical health amidst all these massive responsibilities, you know? Yeah,

Camile Block: 16:12

well, thank you. Um, yeah, back when, like the example I gave you, when he was in the hospital, I didn't do it. Well, it was bad. Actually. In fact, I got to the darkest point in my life where I had never understood what it meant to feel so dark that you didn't want to go on that's where I was in that eight week journey. It was so dark, so I didn't do it well then. And I think I learned from that. I write in my book that like you have to take care of yourself. So I think that acute illnesses, acute issues with your loved ones, that come up and you're fighting. And I think we can do that. I think we have adrenaline. Sometimes things have to go. You don't get your exercise in. You don't I'm not really super great at exercise, by the way, but I do try to move, and I'm doing better with that. But I think sleep is huge. I think, I think the multitasking sometimes we can't do it all in one day. I think I've learned it's overseas. It's almost like the stock market can go up and down. But ultimately, it evens out, you got to take care of yourself more on a week, let's say, basis, every day, like one day. You might, I might be stuck in the hospital all day with my brother, or I might be, you know, stuck doing something else. But overall, you, you have to kind of watch that, or you go dark. So for me, I've learned I'm like a three legged stool. You know, we body, soul, spirit, and so if you ignore any one of those for any length of time, too long, you collapse. And so strengthening my body with movement or feeding it good food, eating healthy, getting sleep, huge, having so that's kind of body is obvious. That's what you guys talk about a lot, but my soul is more the kind of my mind, emotional health, the mental health, I would say, and that, you know, that can be helped with community, good friends. I have a good set of solid friends who rally with me, who pray for me if I'm going through a battle, I think emotionally, just becoming more self aware. I learning like what my triggers are, and my husband's triggers my kitten, learning how to kind of relate more emotionally healthy. And then the Spirit is my spiritual side. And you know, I think we all have a spiritual journey. I think sometimes we repress that, or we don't really acknowledge it, until maybe we're later in life. We're like, Wait, what the heck is next? And so I think going on a spiritual journey has really helped me as well. And so my book kind of incorporates all three of those

Dr. Spencer Baron: 18:38

great you mentioned community. We are social beings, and community is so important. How do you how do you find the right people to surround yourself with? And you know, talk about the importance of of you know, having a good social circle you know, especially someone that you know in your with all your responsibilities. How do you do it?

Camile Block: 19:03

I think that by if you stay in one area for a long time and you raise kids in that area, you know, I've met a lot of my closest friends through the local schools that we've been in together. I think for me, church has been a big part of my life, finding people who have similar beliefs and ways of looking at life has been helpful. I think I've made a lot of mistakes. And, you know, I used to want to be everybody's friend and everybody like me and and like That was exhausting. So I've learned, like I just narrowed down. I have a really nice set of close friends that are local, that we get together. In fact, I'm missing a meeting right now with them because I'm here. But those that consistent meeting, the book clubs, the Bible studies, the social events, you know, these are all so important to me. And obviously family is wonderful. But you know, my husband, my kids, they can't meet all my needs. I'm a complicated person. I need a diversity. The people in my life. When I talk, I love to talk. I love to engage. And so I think just I don't know if I have any great secret to that, although you have to be a friend to have good friends. So I've invested my life in being there for my friends and with no strings attached. And so when the times come when I need a friend. I've already earned the right, you know, to ask for help or to have friends. You have to give to receive. If you're just looking for friends like, hey, I want my needs met. That's not going to be a real, authentic friendship. It's it's both. It goes both ways, good. I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:36

want to talk about secondhand suffering that most people don't realize, and don't, maybe they don't, they're going through it, but they don't realize that there's actually, like a title to it, you know, and there wasn't until you figured it out. But secondhand stuff, we've heard of secondhand smoke, we've heard of second you know. But secondhand suffering is very unique, and it resonates deeply for a lot of people. What what coping mechanisms have you found be effective that you could share with others that might need that emotional support? I think

Camile Block: 21:11

the very first thing is just recognizing that there is a name now. And I think sometimes when we name something, we can deal with it, you know, I've heard it, you know, name it, to tame it, or whatever. But I feel like when I've been on this discovery, when I've told people before the book came out, I was telling people, they're like, what's your book about? I'm like, How do I describe it? And I was stumbling over words, and finally, when I just read the title to them, it's about hope for secondhand suffering, tools for the heart, when you can't fix your loved one's pain. What I got the reaction was like, Oh my gosh. I get that. Like, oh, oh. And they like some people, literally, I had one guy get a tear in his eye. And this is a executive guy, business guy, and he got a tear in his eyes. He's like, you've just nailed something. And he said he's not even a super spiritual guy. He just said, like there's an anointing on that name, like there's something powerful that, and that's what I found. I feel like this. This phrase seems so simple, but like you said, secondhand smoke. We used to think it was only the smoke that affected the smoker, but we learned that actually later, it was anybody in their vicinity that that suffered, could suffer from second from smoke, in the same way, you know, people that are around us like, I look like normal, I seem, quote, it's normal, you know What? What? On the outside appears fine. On the inside, I'm actually having a mental breakdown, you know, because I can't fix my loved one and I, and it's not just with, you know, a disabled brother. My mom had dementia, you know, my I watched my best friend die of cancer almost two years ago, and I watched her husband go through this like it's any time we were feeling like that silent anguish or heavy emotional burden that grips our hearts when we're walking alongside someone with a deep pain or suffering or chronic illness or something, and we really can't fix it, like we can do stuff and we can help with an advocacy and I'm not taking away from advocacy, but ultimately, there's some things like that we have to just surrender and and we have to we're there for them. So I think in terms of tools, I feel like the first thing is just knowing that it's real, knowing that you're not alone, that like people like me who wrote a book, and I'm sure many others in the world, we're all going through it. We understand it. You look fine and outside, but we know you're hurting. And I think just acknowledging that it's a thing, giving visibility to the invisible is, is it takes that edge off, like, Oh, I'm not alone. Someone sees me. I am. I am feeling this. It's valid. And then I think, then we get into this. The tools, like being an advocate, there are things you can do. And when you do certain things, even if they're small, they make a they make a statement to that feeling that we're going through like, Okay, I'm not completely powerless. I there's some things I can do. And so it's, it's that serenity prayer, you know, where you know, God grant me this, the serenity to accept, to accept the things I can't change, but then the courage to change the things I can, and then the wisdom to know the difference. I think that knowing that alone is is helpful as a second hand suffering. There's some things we can't do. There's some things we can't I think the big thing for me, and I write about this in the book, as as dealing with guilt. I think secondhand sufferers have a lot of guilt, and sometimes they're serving constantly out of guilt, like, Oh, I'm not suffering, so I better help them and and to the point that you become the sufferer, you know, because you're giving so much that you're not taking care of yourself. And so I talked about breaking up with guilt and fear. And for me, one of the guilt things I dealt with was, you know, well, my I always had this voice in my head, like when I was doing something fun or happy or laughing or super happy, and. Were experiencing some kind of joy. I had this voice in my head saying, Why are you happy? Your brother can't do that. How Who are you to experience joy when he can't? Why are you not? Quote, normal and he's not. Why did you know he had the life? He has a new and you get to do everything you know. How dare you experience happiness? That's the voice I grew up with all my life to this day. That's the invisible, secondhand suffering I'm talking about. People don't understand what the loved one of someone going through this is actually experiencing on a day to day basis, I mean, and I just there's so many more, but one more I'll just throw out there is, is somehow I've learned when you embrace the pain and you push through what you're going through, but not around, you can actually come through the other side, feeling lighter, feeling feeling better, feeling more joyful and feeling more content in that tension of heartache, you could still find the joy when You push through and not around, and you don't avoid it, you don't mask it, you don't pretend it doesn't exist. And you could find that purpose out of your pain. Sometimes the purpose is not to solve the problem. Sometimes the purpose is just to sit in the pain, walk through it with someone, and then find meaning out of it. For me, I got a book here. You know, I can help people, and they can talk about this other people, they might, you know, Mothers Against Drunk drivers. They they found a purpose out of their pain. So sometimes, not always, but sometimes you can kind of make a bigger difference in the world for either you, your loved ones or or greater.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 26:37

It's always been fascinating. We, you know, through these podcasts, we've interviewed people that are very genius in their area of expertise and and their specialty. And I've noticed over the years that we've been doing this podcast that people are motivated by one, one of two things. They're motivated or inspired away from pain or towards pleasure. And it's one of the other, you know, that's what I mean. We'll delve into, you know, other areas, you know, but it's usually one that dominates. And you mentioned just a moment ago that you, you know, would have guilt, you know, about why was I the chosen one to be healthy and happy and laughing and so and then my brother, you know, What? What? What would you think at that very moment that would would turn things around and make you Okay, or make you, you know, feel,

Camile Block: 27:29

yeah, it's a great question, and it's one I've only learned recently, very, very recently, but I have a friend, two friends, actually gave me this example. I think the root of it was with one, but she said, Imagine a pie like you have a pie you're given at birth. You get this delicious pie. It's probably a bad example, because it's full of chemicals and stuff, but let's pretend it's everything good in it, and it represents everything good, joyful things in your life, and it's yours only. It's only for you. My brother gets his own pie, and my the what my friend said is, you can't give your brother pieces of your pie. It doesn't help him. He can't have it. He has his own pie. There's nothing you can do. Can't give him away. So when I'm denying myself eating the pie I am. It's silly. It doesn't make any sense. I might as well enjoy the pie that I was given, and I have legs, I have eyes, I can do stuff. Don't feel like I'm having it's a false sense of guilt, because it does no good. It does it only hurts me with the guilt burden. And when you're giving things out of guilt, it's a negative. It doesn't help. So when I heard that like, oh, so it helped me enjoy. And I thought, well, what would my brother want? Well, my brother loves me. My brother would want me to eat my pies, pieces of pie. So I that made me, I guess, more comforted to know that like, It's not wrong to enjoy my life. It's not wrong to like it was a lie. I was believing that by somehow not eating my pie, I was helping my brother.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 29:06

That's great. Thanks. Thanks. How do you how do you find and cherish moments of joy with with Kevin? What are some of the things that you experience that really you appreciate? You know, an activity, a routine, that have strengthened the bond even at this point, you know in life that bring you both happiness?

Camile Block: 29:27

Yeah, that's something I'm working on right now. For the last few years, up until maybe a year and a half ago, I have been fighting for his life and and the only joy I had was like, Oh, he's didn't die and so sorry. Um, I think now I'm looking for that so recently, it's doing things for him that make him smile, makes me happy. It's secondhand joy. I'm hoping that's the second book. I don't know. Actually, no book but, um, but. But, like, I got him a gait trainer. It took me forever, but I got him, it's this thing that he can stand up in. He hasn't stood up since he was a kid, and he's atrophied his legs. His legs don't move. They're like, brittle. They're just but I know that that was because of atrophy. It wasn't because he was born that way. When he was a kid, he could be in a walker, and, I mean, he could never walk, but, but his legs would move and he would be strapped in, and legs don't move. Now, so I finally got him this thing called a gait trainer, and getting him in that just that gives me joy. He's that's one thing, just doing things for him, the communication board, but in terms of fun, one of the things we did in the last three years at a golf tournament that his organization sponsors, is this really radical nurse decided, would Kevin like to go in a golf cart? I'm like, yeah. And so we kind of broke the rules and we we had people lift him in this golf golf cart, and I got a ride of them. I'm holding him. He is a caregiver, a direct care staff holding him from the back. And we just rode this. It was 1000 Oaks golf course, and there's all these hills, and oh my gosh, he laughed so hard. He cackles, cackles, with joy. And it's just, I have a video of it. He's so happy. That was fun. Now we've only done it once a year. I'd like to do it more, going to the beach. We did it one time, two time ish together, and one time he was able to, I said, just put him on my lap. Just put him on my lap. And because there's not enough wheelchairs with wheels, you know, to go down there. And so they put him on his lap. And I just leaned back, no support, and I held him. But what I noticed is he has one hand that can move. His hand was feeling the sand, and it was like, oh, and that he loved. He started making this cooing sound when he's happy, and like, he just loved feeling the sand, the warm sand. He was just going through it. And it's like, I'd love to do that more. We've done that once, you know, his whole life. So I would love more of these activities, more of these things we I can just see him laugh and get out in the world. And so that's my hope. By getting them healthy, starting to getting them these tools that we can do more things like that. But it's takes a village. He needs a Hoyer lift to, you know, be lifted. And it's complicated.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 32:10

I see you've it really peaked an emotion for you that really brought you to a tearful moment. And I appreciate you sharing that emotion, because that we all feel that, especially me and Dr Terry usually teases me that I that I usually share the tear wall my podcast, but thank you for and goosebumps too. Yeah, goosebumps too. So thank you because I feel your excitement and emotion when you share those moments of joy that seem to be happening more as you guys, as you and your brother move through life, him being healthier, and you discovering it's the little things that really make them happy. And you know what for the listening audience that is probably the greatest take home, because we often think ourselves, what can we do that's exciting? Well, you know, picking up some sand on the beach could be extraordinarily eventful for someone who's not been able to do that before. Yeah, that's so

Dr. Terry Weyman: 33:16

true. So thank you. Know I got something, you know, whether it's a brother, a child, or something like that, when you have a well, a special child, it's very time consuming. How to how have you, what have you learned to navigate or integrate that into your family, that a husband, a wife, a healthy child, doesn't feel that form of jealousy that well, mom's spending all this time for with this person. How? How do you? How do you, what have you learned how to make that integration healthy for everybody?

Camile Block: 33:54

Well, it's interesting because we didn't have that issue, because my brother was sent to a different place to live, and that brought its own issues. But I am on a Facebook private group with a bunch of people who are siblings to Special Needs families. So I'm I'm hearing a lot from the sibling perspective, but I'm also feeling like I connect to the moms, because I'm really kind of mothering my my brother, my lot of people say, Are you as mom? I'm like, No, like three years older, but they what I'm hearing is that that very thing that sometimes in a family with special needs, who is living at home, which is much more common now, is pretty much everybody does that because they have more support now, the sibling or the quote that I think the word they're using now is the typical one, neurotypical. I have to learn this whole new language because I didn't, wasn't raising that, but they do. They can feel left out, they can feel invisible. They can feel overlooked and and I'm seeing the consequences of that in this Facebook group I'm on where these siblings are now adults with their own young. Children and their parents are either gone or they're in dementia memory care, and they now have had inherited their sibling, and they love them very much, but honestly, it's very difficult. A lot of the autistic diagnosis now there's some violence for some of them, and they're they're actually hurting the the children of the sibling, and so I'm hearing this a very safe place, like, it's a very private group, so people just share everything, and there's a lot of struggles. So I think that the balance is important. Like, if we were to do this again and my brother was living at home, I would say, you know, to my parents, you know, hey, let me have a vote. Younger. Like, let me have a say. Let me voice my feelings at least, like maybe a 10 year old, can't decide whether my brother gets a G Tube or not, but maybe you can hear my thoughts out. And maybe I might. I don't think that we have Junior wisdom. I think that there's wisdom in children too. And like, let them be heard, let them because they may be the ones taking care of that special needs person one day. So get involve them at an earlier age, and then let them be a part of the like, instead of not going on a family vacation, because you can't take Susie, you know, maybe have set up where Susie can get some special care, and the family can still go on a vacation or so the other kids aren't left out. So I'm not sure if that so you're asking, but I think that the bigger picture is, yeah, when one person sucks up all the time and energy, even with me, my husband sometimes felt abandoned because I was going to take care of Kevin all the time. And if it wasn't Kevin, it was one of my kids. And it's like, well, he has needs too, and you know, he I have felt convicted by that, yeah, you got to have a balance. Sometimes you just can't do it all. You just have to say, no, I'm sorry, Kevin, you're going to suffer today more than you would have if I was there, but I have a family, and so I think having those boundaries, I learned the boundary I read the boundaries book long time ago, and that has come in handy. I will say,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 36:53

Well, I think Jealousy is a root of a lot of issues and and I just was, you know, to try and nip jealousy in the in the bud before it becomes a blossom tree, you know, trying to find ways to navigate around it is, is huge,

Camile Block: 37:08

huge. Yeah,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 37:10

you've had some circumstances that are beyond your control. We've talked about some of you come into so frustrated. And how do you surrender to that when it's out of your control, and cultivate peace in those moments. And what guidance has you? Have you learned in this process?

Camile Block: 37:30

Um, I think that ultimately, that is the lesson is surrender. I think there's a lot of things I've learned I can fight, lot of things I can change, and I sometimes err on the side of like, I'm gonna fix it, fix it, fix it, even though my book slides like, when you can't fix it. I think I've had some success in fixing some small things that make me think, well, keep fighting. Don't give up. And I agree with that, but I do think you come to a point where you hit a wall. You know, my brother's not talking yet. My brother's not walking yet. He's not my mom ended up dying of 10 years progressive dementia. I couldn't do it all. And so when you hit that wall, I feel like that's when you come to that point of surrender, and you say, I just surrender. And and there's, I have a lot of quotes about surrender. I think surrender plus hunger, um, meaning for hunger, for that transformation of your heart, like, how do you get peace in the midst of trial? I think when you add surrender, and you add that hunger that to continue to pursue, not give up, but not not saying that you're giving up fixing things. You're giving up having to be in control, and you're having and that equals the transformation that I went through. And that's a lot of my book is more about a transformation of the heart, and it you have to get to the surrender point first. So the beauty of surrender, you kind of have nowhere else to go but God. And for me and for me and maybe other people come to different conclusions, but I had to come to the point where I got to the end of myself. And there was a moment where my brother was I was told he's dying, literally, he the COVID. Years were horrible, but he was had just come out of the hospital. Had done a great final recovery. I worked with him and got him out of there. And then, because of COVID policies, he had to go to a 10 to 14 day isolation in this place. And it was he was finally healed, and then he went to this place, and he ended up having, I mean, I couldn't see, I wasn't allowed to see him during COVID, and the only time I could see him is if he was in the hospital, and that was, you know, hazmat suit in the works and all that, and that was even getting in the hospitals. It was difficult because I didn't do all the protocols, right, so you had to find a way to still see your brother. But my brother ended up, because of the isolation got worse, so we got finally back to he's finally allowed back to his room. And that night, I got a call. At like 11 at night saying, you know, your brother's oxygen is in the 70s. We're gonna recall the paramedics. They're here. You know, we want to know what you want to do. Because I have a DNR for my brother and and I said, let me talk the paramedics. And I said, he has been in the hospital. He just got isolation. He's got worse because of that, he's going to be fine. He's not dying. And they say, and they said, Ma'am, with all due respect, he's dying. And if you don't, if you don't let us take him to the hospital right now, he's going to die. And it was so mean, and it was so horrible. And I said, You know what, I'm going to take that chance. I'm not going back to the hospital after we just spent the last five weeks getting him that, because then if you go to hospital, if isolate for another 10 or 14 days, when you get home and with him alone in a chair, it's just it's wrong. So I really, I I knew what I was doing, and I got my dad on the phone, and we said, Okay, this is, this might be his time. I'm like, we're gonna we're gonna say we trust God and we let him go. And but in my gut, I knew he wasn't dying. I just knew it. And so they they had me go say my goodbyes. They finally let me see my brother in the room, because I couldn't see him inside for almost three years and and I was driving on the freeway at 3am in the morning, no one's out. And I had my my surrender with God. And I said, God, I give up. I give up. I can't do this anymore. The COVID thing, Terry saw me during those COVID years. It was just so maddening, like I couldn't even be with my brother and, um, and I just gave I surrendered. And then I got to the hospital room, they let me in, because I guess if you're dying, you can see your loved one. Think of that. So um, and I was quietly, you know, I went to he was the lights were out there, trying to let him sleep, get his oxygen back up. And I sit with him for like, two and a half hours, and I'm just like playing, like soft music, and just like telling him I love him and all this stuff. And then I shine my light on the on and trying to go, because I'm tired at this point, want to go back to bed. And I shine my light out, and I look at him, and his face is laughing with he's cracking up. He's laughing at me like I'm saying goodbye to him dying. He's like, Oh my gosh, Kevin, I knew you were gonna die, and you just laugh because get off. I'm like, You know what? I'm so glad he didn't go to the hospital anyway. I could go on and on, but, but I think the surrender is so important, and it's like from that surrender, actually, we broke through this wall and we found, we found hope again. And so it kind of combines the trust you got, the advocacy, and the willing to give it all up. And, you know, he was fine.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 42:40

He can hear you. Yes, he can hear you perfectly well, yeah, yeah. It's just his ability to respond Yes,

Unknown: 42:49

a little different. Yeah, yeah, wow,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 42:55

that's a heck of a story. The whole time you're telling a story, I'm watching my partner, and his eyes are big, his mouth is big. And I go, You know what, if he wasn't wearing such a tight shirt, you see all the hair prickling up because he's had that on him. For those who are just starting this process, the things you've learned. I mean, you fought and fought and thought and and, yes, you have, we'll put a link to your book in the description. But for those people that haven't obviously read it yet, it says, say, well, we can. It's in the book. I want you to talk to people that may be tuning in for this for the first time and are going, oh my god, I I'm going through this right now. What have you learned through some of these challenging times? I mean, you you talked about, when we first started, about the fights you've had to have when they're not living at your house. So if you have somebody that's, can you just give us some some things that you've learned, that maybe you would do, have done different in the beginning, you know, when you first got it that you would do, that you've learned through this process, that you would if you went back in time, you maybe do different what's some things you've kind of learned through the process, for somebody just starting out, I think a lot of that

Camile Block: 44:12

is summarized in my chapter titles, actually, which you can even just see, you know, by looking at Amazon or something, without buying the book. But I think one of the big things is, you know, starting with the premise of, like, life's not fair. And I think, I think for me, you know, you we all grow up thinking life should be fair. I don't know where we get that, but it's, it's an innate sense that, yeah, there is, there is justice, there is goodness. And like, we know, like, when things are wrong, it's it's a problem. But I think that the if I had to say one thing that based on your question, I would say the whole, not everybody that says they're an expert is an expert. Like I, I feel like we are. Our own experts and to trust yourself more intuitive. We don't have to be a doctor to kind of figure some things out. We have the internet now, like there's and it's worth it. It's worth it to dig in. Now, some people's personalities are not like mine and and, you know, I have another brother who's healthy, and you know, he's a really good guy. He'll come if I call him, and he'll help it. We're wired differently, and so some, I don't want to put the guilt on someone to say, like, Well, you got to do what I did. Because I think, I mean, I'm kind of insane a little bit, but I think, you know, just trust you have a voice. Your voice is important. I think also empathy, that the lesson of empathy, you know, for me, I wasn't always as empathetic. I talk about empathy as a discipline. It's not just a feeling. One of my stories in my book, I talk about is, is I became my brother for one day. When I was in college, I was a sociology major, and we had to, we had come up with some study for a big thesis of something social science related, you know, like, you know, stand in an elevator, different elevators, and face backwards and see what people, you know, say and document it and do a whole project. Well, I decided I wanted to become my brother and see what it was like to be disabled and no voice, and so that was a whole thing I write about. And I think what it did is it really helped me. We kind of fooled the whole day program staff. It was only one person who knew, and I came in like and I had to really become like an actress and become in my my brother's body, and feel what he feels. And I What would Kevin do? And of course, they ended up shoving my worst favorite food in my mouth for lunch, like stewed tomatoes. And, oh, I just like, What does Kevin do? Well, he would spit it out. I spit it out all over them, you know. So it just learning empathy. Like, sometimes we think we want to avoid the pain, and I can't deal with it. Like, oh. Just like, oh, let's pray for him. Or, you know, but I feel like there's a gift when you become so empathetic for someone that you love. To me, the gift, it can be summarized in my favorite line from Les Mis if you remember it. But to to to love another person is to see the face of God. And when we truly love someone. I think that involves empathy. I think that involves we feel their pain. I think that involves we we step in their shoes. And for me, that's that's the feeling when I became closest to God, when I was sitting by my dying, what I thought was my dying brother. I never felt closer to God. I was like, there's a sacred holiness in this space right now, and it's when we let ourselves love someone so deep that it hurts, secondhand suffering. The benefit you would never know until you experience it. The benefit is like, oh my gosh, I feel that connection to God. And so I would say, Don't avoid, don't avoid the empathy like nurture it. And you, of course, you know there's all the balance, take care of yourself, and the boundaries and all that. But I do think that there is good to come from suffering. I mean, think of it like, I mean, one of the greatest people, whether you believe he's God or not, doesn't matter the Bible versus Jesus wept. Like, here, this great man of God, you know, wept, and I feel like, if he can do it like, when we block ourselves from that ability to feel, I feel like it's we're missing out. We're missing out on this feeling of connecting to the heart of God. And it's hard to describe what benefit that is. I just think it makes us better people and unearth. So, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:43

I think Dave, did you want to say something? David, oh,

David Farquharson: 48:47

no, I was gonna say the ability to be good is like a muscle. It hurts at first when you work out, but once you get once you get good at it, you get good.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 48:59

There you go. There you go. You know, it's interesting, because my brother and I were just talking about, there was a study done on with water, with bottles of water, with water that was in the bottle that if over a period of time, if you said the words of love and compassion and devotion to the water bottle, Oh, yeah. Do you know about this? And then I've heard about that, yeah, the other the alternate was the water bottle that you would express hate and anger and, you know, affliction and so on. And what they did was they would freeze the water and put it under the microscope, and you would see two completely different crystals. You would see, you know, disoriented crystals with no defined borders, versus the bottle of love and compassion had. Really beautiful, elegant, you know, very defined crystals. So there's something to be said. Makes me, you know, it makes you really, when you, when you live a compassionate and loving life, you know, it can, it can really, you know, inspire the person that is receiving that kind of love, you know, at the same time, I was telling my brother that I actually have developed compassion for for bugs. When you you know, as a kid, you would smack and kill the bug. And I'm thinking of myself, you know, what am I doing? You know? And you know, over my, my recent life, I've, you know, spared the mosquito that was sucking the blood out of just instead of smashing, you know, it's things like that that you know, you we take for granted. So thank you for sharing. You such, such why we

Dr. Terry Weyman: 50:58

don't live passion, why we don't live in Florida. Camille, well,

Camile Block: 51:02

I'm laughing because I'm thinking, you must have done some inner work. Dr Barron, because it's, it's a little more unusual for for men. My, I, you reminded me of a story of my my girls. My kids were really little, and my girls found this beautiful Caterpillar outside, and they were watching, oh, look at all the legs, and look the color. They're like, fascinated. And my, like, youngest son comes up. He's like, two, and he's like, looking at and then, and then they showed him. He's like, Oh, and he steps on it. You've done something to work on you

Dr. Spencer Baron: 51:33

I have. And those were also just self revelation, things that you know, realizing that you know, it's so much easier to love and, you know, and we're, I'm off track. Sometimes there's, there's some anger and animosity that comes up, and I have to remind myself and surround yourself with the people there that function like you do, you know, and, and, and, by the way, dr, Terry, we don't have scorpions in South Florida, so, oh,

Unknown: 51:59

wait. We'll go,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:01

we'll go there, right, Dave, there you go. Yes. Have you know what we

Dr. Terry Weyman: 52:08

would call hummingbirds? You call bugs? You know they're right,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:15

yeah. Oh, Kyle, we're gonna move right into our rapid fire questions, some of the more fun things that we can share and talk about. We have five questions for you that we I'm scared to answer. You gotta be quick on your feet, though, and if you're ready for question number one, okay, ready? I don't know if you could, if you could have dinner with any historical figure. Who would it be? And what question would you most likely want to ask them?

Camile Block: 52:46

Oh, gosh, I have, like so many people, but I mean, I have to go. I mean, I just have to go with Jesus. I'm sorry, it's probably the most popular answer, but I think I would. I have a list for God. My friend and I, we joke all these crazy things that happen in the world. Happen in the world, and we're like, I get we have free will, and I get we, like, God's not controlling everything and causing all this bad I actually have come to believe that after a lot of search, but I do have some questions. Like, really, God? Like, why? And I would have all my why questions I would want to know. Like, couldn't you have stepped in on that one? Like, couldn't you have so I think I'm, I would be a little raw with him, and I think he can take it. So that would probably be my, my dinner,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:28

or Jesus. And by the way, that is not the common answer. So, oh, really, you still maintain your uniqueness with your answer, yes, yes. All right, all right, I'll take care. What's a hobby, ready? What's a hobby or interest you might have that would surprise those who know you, primarily through your work. Oh,

Camile Block: 53:56

a hobby I currently have, or a hobby I might want to have.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:00

Oh, no, either one would surprise people.

Camile Block: 54:05

Well, what was the surprise people? Is my husband, I are trying to learn how to be beekeepers, which is, we've killed two hides now, so I'm not sure if we can try the charm. We'll see if he ordered them or not this year. But, yeah, we, we, they both swarmed and left and things killed, I don't know. So, yeah, that's, that's probably the hobby that I'm not sure I wanted, but he kind of got me into it. And I like honey, and I think it has good enzymes. It's like, I'm open, but it is not easy.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:40

Maybe you should tell the bees you love them. I love

Camile Block: 54:43

you. There's something to that. There's something we have co parent bees. We have my friends bees in our yard, and she wants me to talk to them because she used to sing to them before they came in my backyard. And I'm like, Ah, just can't I'm not there yet, but I'm trying. But it does make a difference, like your water. It does. Is, Wow, I love it. We get to know your voice. It's

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:03

funny, because all I think of is that movie beekeeper that came right? That was just complete antithesis of, you know, right?

Camile Block: 55:10

That's why I haven't watched it yet. I heard it wasn't really about beekeeping.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:15

It was pretty cool. I mean, I like that kind of movie anyway. Question number three, is there a particular place in the world that holds a special meaning for you, and why would that be? These are good questions.

Camile Block: 55:26

I tried to figure out what you're gonna ask me, and I failed on all three so far. Special place. You know what? I think it's, I think it's Pepperdine University. I don't know I every time I go there. I was raised there. My dad was a professor there, recruited from Arkansas, Tennessee, and I was there at two years old, running around that place. I know, I know my husband and I met there. We got engaged there, my dad. I grew up my whole life going to Pepperdine. We went to church there. I go to that campus. To this day, I just, I feel at home. I feel like I'm in my womb there. It's just a very special place to me.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:09

That is great,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:10

good. I did not know that all the time, knowing you, I did not know that.

Camile Block: 56:15

Yeah, we're very I mean, I was there before it was born, Malibu. I used to meet. We used to be in the civic center in Malibu. As a kid, I had my birthday party there at Sunday school, and when I was four, and my dad was a part of the founding professors at pepper, and he started the business division there. He wasn't even a business guy, but he self taught, and he was recruited. He knew somebody, and it was a part of the whole founding of the campus. We've known, I've known all the presidents personally by name. They're all at my wedding. Yeah, very, very close connection. I don't do anything with them right now, but they're there. It's a special place to me.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:52

Fantastic. Question number four, what's a book or a movie that has profoundly impacted you on and what did it What was your takeaway from?

Camile Block: 57:07

I got a serious movie and I got a funny movie My I'll just go with my theme of my book. Everything's serious, right, but you could tell I don't want to always be heavy. But this movie did profoundly impact me. It was the shack. I don't know if you guys have seen it. No, it was Lionsgate produced. A friend of mine actually is the producer who did it all. But I went to support my friend, and I came away, blown away, and it, it spoke. It was actually the biggest catalyst I write about my book too, but the biggest callous in my shift to a head to a heart connection with all my questions with God, like with my deepest anger with God, my deepest sadness with God, it dealt with it, and the My favorite quote from it is when One of the characters who's playing God. It's all fictional, you know, characters revolving around a tragedy that happens in this shack with this one guy who's like, angry at God and having this conversation. And the person playing God says, I can work together incredible good in the tragedies, but I don't orchestrate the tragedies. I bawled. When I heard that, I bawled. It's like, oh my gosh. And I know it's fiction, I know it's a movie, I know it's an interpretation, but honestly, it gelled with my spirit so deeply, because so much of my life people said, you know, oh well, God, must have a plan, or he's in control, or he causes for Kevin, for a reason. I'm like, blah. I don't like any of that. And when, when that character said that, it's like, wow, this shift happened, and it was so profound. So that's probably my favorite, most impactful movie. My favorite just to laugh is meet the parents. I just think that's hilarious. And he just laughs so hard at that movie.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:57

Very good question number five, last one, if you instantly acquire a new skill or a talent, what would it be and how do you think it would enrich your life?

Camile Block: 59:09

Oh, my gosh, these are hard skill or talent. Ah, I want to I my skill. I'd like to recall everything I've learned, because I'm a learner. I have books everywhere. I have underlines in everything. I have notes. Every Sunday at church, I take notes, I go to conferences, I go to workshops, I do internet class, I write it all down, I underline it. I can't remember. Like, right now, like, I, I there's so many things I know I'm like, I should have said this. I should, but I can't recall everything, so I'd love to have perfect recall, perfect memory, the ability to take everything I've ever learned and actually use it and make it practical and help people. That's what I couldn't with.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 59:56

Get hearing aids. Oh. I

Camile Block: 1:00:01

don't want him. I'm gonna fight it. I'm gonna grow back those silly in my ears.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:09

I had to go there. Thanks. Oh Camille, thank you so much. Those are great, great answers. Great you. You've definitely brought us through all the emotions. Appreciate that.

Camile Block: 1:00:24

You need to laugh, you need to laugh.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:00:26

We need to cry. We need to we need to embrace all the emotions we have in life. And thank you so much for going, taking us on this journey. Yes, of course, the book, if for people listening, please go look at the description. There's will be a link there, but just just to listen to your voice and hearing your stories and and your journey, I just so appreciate you and love you. So thank you for taking this time to to take us on this journey, and hopefully these words are fall on ears that need to be to hear it. Need to hear these words so thank you for your time.

Camile Block: 1:01:02

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:09

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. Catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.