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Unlocking the ADHD Brain: Neurological Secrets and Natural Solutions with Dr. Michael Bagnell

• Dr. Terry Weyman and Dr. Spencer Baron

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Demystifying ADD & ADHD: Unlocking Brain Neurology and Real-Life Solutions with Functional Neurologist Dr. Michael Bagnell

Are ADD and ADHD brain disorders or hidden superpowers? Can lifestyle choices truly change the way your brain functions? In this eye-opening episode of the Crackin' Backs Podcast, renowned Functional Neurologist Dr. Michael Bagnell joins us to unravel the mysteries surrounding ADD and ADHD, providing groundbreaking insights and actionable strategies for better brain health.

Dr. Bagnell explores foundational questions, such as why some people develop ADD or ADHD, revealing the neurological factors responsible for attention, impulse control, and focus differences. If you've ever wondered about the real differences between ADD and ADHD—and how these differences influence treatment—this episode clearly breaks down the science behind these two commonly misunderstood conditions.

Additionally, you'll learn:

  • Practical, medication-free steps parents can take to help children struggling with attention and hyperactivity find calm and achieve greater success at home and school.
  • Science-backed strategies for stimulating optimal brain development through targeted exercises, dietary adjustments, and simple daily habits.
  • Realistic methods to manage screen addiction and regain control over your time and attention—strategies effective for both kids and adults.
  • Everyday tactics specifically designed for adults dealing with undiagnosed ADHD symptoms, helping reduce overwhelm, improve productivity, and maintain focus.

Whether you are a parent, teacher, healthcare provider, or someone personally affected by attention and impulse challenges, Dr. Bagnell delivers practical knowledge that you can implement immediately.

Don't miss Dr. Michael Bagnell's essential advice and his single most impactful recommendation to transform brain health today.

For more information about Dr. Michael Bagnell’s work, visit his official website: https://www.bagnellbraincenter.com.

Tune in, gain clarity, and unlock the potential hidden within ADD and ADHD. Your journey to improved brain health starts here, on the Crackin' Backs Podcast!

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Do you or someone you love struggle with ADD or ADHD? Is it a superpower or a setback? Today, we're diving deep into the brain with renowned functional neurologist Dr Michael begnell to demystify the truth behind attention and impulse control, discover game changing, medication free solutions, powerful brain health strategies and daily hacks to transform chaos and to calm it's your time to unlock the brain's fullest potential right here, right now. On the cracking backs podcast,

Unknown:

Dr Michael Bagnell, functional neurologist, I am so happy to have

Dr. Spencer Baron:

you on. You're one of my closest, dearest friends in the whole wide world. Good to have you, buddy.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Great to be here again. Love Thank you. Guys always chock full of information.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Go ahead, Terry, what were you gonna say?

Dr. Terry Weyman:

I think he's like the first one we've had on three times. And it's like every time, it's like, we need to say, you set a record. And it's like every time we're like, okay, we name them again. We name them again. So congratulations on being number one on that. I need

Unknown:

a t shirt. Yes, you do three times a charm, 3p

Dr. Spencer Baron:

He's our brain consultant. So let me Mike, I gotta, I gotta commend you on the title of this talk today is the wheel of misfortune you came up with that is as brilliant as brilliant can be, and it's where mental health meets neuroscience. And I, I love this conversation. Yeah, thanks for coming up with that. But I think we need to, you know, take that, lecture on the road. So anyway, for sure,

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

for sure. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the tail end of what we had last time. And then we're also talking about, you know, we needed to talk more about ADHD as well. So these things kind of overlap. I think you would agree, right? If we did, what do they? Call them Venn diagrams? Yeah, we have anxiety, depression and attention, and those things can all interact from some of the same brain areas and create different kinds of cascades of problems for people as we know.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Well, I'm so excited about this conversation,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

yeah, because America is afflicted with these conditions, especially the ADHD and Adderall conversation. So Mike, can you? Can you start talking about some of the underlying neurological imbalances that contribute to that whole mental health disorder, like anxiety, depression and ADHD, to just kind of launch off of that? Yeah.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

I mean, let's talk about what has been the thought for previous, previously to this point, has been chemistry. It's a chemical imbalance, whether it's anxiety, whether it's depression, whether it's memory, whether it's attention, and being a chemistry problem, or at least treat it as a chemistry problem. It's usually with pharmaceuticals that, pardon me, that will increase or decrease suppress things in the brain, as we know and what we've come to realize is that it's not always a chemical imbalance. In fact, it's very hard to measure a chemical imbalance. And Dr Daniel Amen, I'll refer to him, who's one of the more well known psychiatrists in the world, who has said, why have we not us, but he as a psychiatry profession, why have we not used technology imaging to understand the organ that we're treating, and we base it mostly on symptoms. You say, Well, symptoms are a pretty good indicator. And I would say, I agree. And I would say it's an indicator, but now with imaging, meaning brain maps or eye tracking studies or cognitive task tests, outcome assessments, we're able to dive a little bit deeper under the hood, if you will, using the car as a metaphor, right under the hood of someone's brain dealing with attention or depression issues or anxiety or even OCD and bipolar, any of these strata, and say, what's underneath, in the networks, like you're talking about in the brain hardware, that might actually be the problem, besides the default switch, which is, it's a chemical imbalance. And so that's kind of where we are today in definitely in functional neurology, and to some degree, psychiatry might be moving that way too, although there's still a strong reliance, of course, as you know, on chemistry, I think because people are needing immediate relief. But there's so much still questionable as to, how do SSRIs, how do ssnris? How do these medications really work? Even Dr Andrew Huberman has explained much of that on his podcast and his his YouTube channel about that we are not certain this is what we believe to be, how these drugs work. So we're looking for a different way, looking for an alternative way to help people with mood issues, attention issues, cognitive decline, and we'll talk today about. How Is that really possible? And I think to give the short answer, it is possible. It is possible

Dr. Spencer Baron:

to build a foundation. Can you elaborate on how, on the importance of dopamine and serotonin, where it comes from? Because I know it was isolated back in the late 1800s and that was great. But then somebody decided to how could we enhance dopamine production in people? And that's then the onslaught, or history of amphetamines, you know, and cocaine was actually legal at one point. But go ahead and elaborate on that. So

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

dopamine is created. And so these chemicals are created in our brain stem, in our brain tissues, and they're created when we fire one neuron to another. What's released in the cleft, if you will, the space is brain chemistry, neurotransmitters, neuromodulators. So dopamine is produced primarily in the upper part of the brainstem, where actually are we would say our fight or flight response emanates from our survival. Response emanates from that upper brain stem where dopamine is produced, which gives us right our drive, our outgoing activity, our ability to pursue. Think about dopamine is, I'm going after I'm going after something. So of course, we need it. It's for movement, it's for thought. It's for brain function. Then you come down a little lower, and you have serotonin production, which makes you more satisfied, helps you to sleep better. You feel more calm, less pain. And so it has many effects through the brain, but this dopamine, serotonin kind of marriage, if you will, is really what's driving our pursuit behavior for living and our satisfaction with what we have achieved. And so they're made in the brainstem, because neurons are firing, and then we have the flip side, if they're not firing so well, maybe we're not making enough of that chemistry, which then leads into many times, a disorder that is because of the chemistry lack or too much, but is driven by a improper firing patterns in the brainstem. Possibly,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

let's talk neuroplasticity, neuro networking, the way it plays in to mental health and how, how does Functional Neurology and the techniques that you do, which I would love for you, to elaborate on, some of the, you know, instead of prescribing a medication, I often, you know, I often describe, what you do is giving exercise to the brain, but first we got to find out what muscles are weak, yeah, so like Dr Terry and I, that's what we do with the from the neck down, whereas you identify the weaknesses or where there's too much strength in the neck and above. So yeah,

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

that's a perfect, perfect example. And metaphor for going into this is like, let's step back for a minute and say, Okay, let's understand, and I'll say it this way, the hardware, what's going on in the hardware. We can maybe think of it like the software is what your thoughts are, what your mind is, what emotions and moody that may be considered more the software side, the expression of what's going on in the hardware. But the hardware is what we're going to look at and we're going to attempt to understand is the hardware in some kind of dysregulated state. Is the hardware damage? Maybe someone has played sports. Maybe they have some sport related head impacts that maybe they didn't suffer a lot, but there was, there was a head impact. Or maybe they had immune changes that were pretty strong at different points of their life, strep as a kid who didn't have COVID During that time, and, you know, different things that might have affected immunologically, that brain and brain tissue. So in the analysis of the brain, there are certain signatures that we can look for when someone has a mood disorder, say depression or anxiety. I'll just use those two that we can look for a signature in some of the biomarkers that would give us an insight into, oh, that's where that might be emanating from that piece of hardware, just like you would in a computer, when you have a computer problem,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I love it. I love it. Some of the things that you do, though, are highly fascinating. As far as retraining the brain through visual or eye movement patterns, or hand, you know, modulating hand movements and balances. What are some of the things that you would do for some it may not necessarily be the same, but what would you do for something for you know, ADHD that maybe had been taking Adderall or off Adderall, or was suggested Adderall, so

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

much of the time with and it's primarily young people, although we have some adults with ADHD, when we're thinking about that, we see an over arousal pattern, too much activity in that upper brain stem. Uh, an over arousal pattern. So what we want to do is, and I think you mentioned earlier, is we want to figure out, how do we help to lower the over arousal pattern in this person, the medication is actually increased, so it's an over arousal pattern from an area that produces dopamine, but we're going to give them something which actually helps them focus to a degree, makes them usually not feel so good in other areas, as many people report, but it increases their dopamine. So typically, even when they're on something like Adderall, Vyvanse and so on, we're seeing an even higher arousal pattern. So that might help me produce right? If I have to have a 1214, hour day, if I'm an adult and I'm really driving in my business or a kid, but you're probably not going to feel so good being like that for weeks and months and years on end. It's really in a way you could think about it like being in overdrive in your car. So an evaluation of someone's brain with brain mapping and eye tracking, cognitive testing, autonomic testing, also gives us ideas and gives us data about what's going on in areas of the brain, so that we can then say, Does this fit with what they're presenting with? Is it some mood issue, or is an attention issue or both. And then, how can we strategize therapies? Well, you say, Well, what kind of things would you do for that? We use the sensory inputs to modulate the brain. Very simple. What does that mean? Sensory inputs, the eyes, the hearing and the vestibular system, when you're moving your head, your vestibular apparatus and your body, which is what you all work on, right the somatosensory, you can say the proprioceptive. We use those three major inputs to drive activity into the brain in the direction or to the region that we want to increase or inhibit activation. That's very simply put. Does that make sense? Yes, yeah. And so when people say, Well, how do you do this? I say three sensory inputs. We drive activity into what we're seeing here on your brain, map into this area where it's not working, into this area where it needs to be inhibited to bring about a change. Let me tell you what happened yesterday. This is pretty I was even astonished. I'll say so we have a woman who's in her early 50s, was a critical care nurse for many years of the floor. So she was the floor supervisor, and she had a concussion. She was training for yoga to be an instructor, and she fell a little over a year ago, hit the back of her head as a concussion. She also has some immune issues going on, so she had kind of different layers, because people aren't limited to one thing, right? She currently cannot walk. She's in a wheelchair. She's been in a wheelchair for about six months. How old is she? 5152 i two. So this is a very high performing person prior to this injury, right? She's, she's not only a critical care nurse and a floor supervisor, she's doing a training class to be an instructor for yoga. I mean, she's, she was pretty sharp gal. So after this injury, she deals with this and she continues to progressively get worse and worse and worse. Things happen with her blood pressure goes out of control. Things happen with her heart rate. She is definitely in a clinical depression state. She's been treated for depression as the primary thing. The reason you're like this is because you have depression. We've seen that so many times, and so we've been dealing with her on a dysautonomia basis, meaning her brain, because of the concussion, cannot regulate blood pressure, heart rate, so she stands up and her blood pressure goes through the floor. She's sitting down. Her blood pressure is 110, over 80. She stands up and it goes to 90, over 60, and she says, I feel like I'm just draining everything's just draining out of me, so I can't stand up and walk. My legs have different symptoms as well. So now back to the sensory inputs. So we're using her vestibular system to improve her brain stem function, which also we talked earlier about, that's where your chemistry is made, right? And she is depressed. She has a very negative affect because of suffering for so long and being hopeless so many doctors. I mean, if I tell you the list of doctors, you'd say, what? But you have experienced that already. People going to clinician or doctor after doctor and saying, No, it's in your head. No, you don't have that. Just keep working out. Just keep doing that. You'll be better. Change your diet, etc, etc. And those things are not inaccurate lifestyle measures, right? But she has not had anyone look at the brain stem function in relation to the concussion. In fact, the immunologist said about a month ago, you didn't have a concussion. I said, Wait a minute. It. You were training for the class, you fell backwards, hit your head on the floor from an upright position. A week later, the symptoms started, and you don't have a concussion. I mean, there's, you know, we're just being logical here and rational and looking at the data that presents, right? And so yesterday, here's what happens. So she can't walk, and every time I ask her, she does have to get up out of the chair and sit in another chair for therapy so she can get up, but she just can't walk across the room. And it becomes a very overwhelming experience because of the feeling and sensation and the blood pressure drop in her emotional state, very fragile. So yesterday we do a vestibular therapy. We've built her up to a level to do this more more, let's say immersive vestibular therapy, where I'm putting goggles on. Dr Barron, you've seen the goggles we put on so they can't see anything, but we can see their eyes. And I have her in a rotational chair, and I'm doing some therapy to work on her vestibular inputs, and I do the work with her that I've determined on previous exam, it has to be rotated in this particular direction at a certain speed, so we're giving her vestibular input. So we take the goggles off, and I say, Okay, we're gonna move you over to this other chair now, which is across the room, and she and I'm looking at her husband standing there. She goes to get up out of the chair like that every single time, if I can characterize this prior to that for three months, we're at the end of her cycle of care. I asked her, we're going to get up and change chairs. Oh, oh, here we go. All this emotionality and physicality comes out. She when I said, to get up, we're going to move. She just went to get up out of the chair, and she said, Oh my gosh. I feel like I'm back to myself. And then she started cry. She said, I didn't even have a thought that something was wrong. It was so remarkable. Now, did she walk across the room? I helped her. But what I saw there, it was a very powerful example of how the accurate input to the brain through the vestibular sensory system, right? One of the sensory systems could alter someone in a moment. Sometimes it takes weeks or months, but sometimes in a moment, you can actually alter a functionality the brain exactly like we've had someone, they're feeling something. We've adjusted them. They get up, they say, oh my gosh, it's completely movable, and it's better, right? I don't feel any of that you've had that experience dozens, if not hundreds of times. This was related to the brain. So I saw this was where we have to keep building and strengthening this woman for full recovery. So I'm very hopeful She'll be out of that wheelchair in the next three weeks. That's awesome, and that will affect her mood, for sure. Oh yeah, for sure, 100% because she was happy, like, I can't even I didn't even think about my body when I just stood up. Prior to that, her mind is always because something shifted radically. Isn't that it was shocking to me. I was like, whoa. This is the right therapy for the right time with this patient.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

That that is, that is just fascinating, because it's really, you know, finding the key that unlocks the door you gave her hope so that elevates the mood, get a little dopamine response just from that alone. That's thank you for sharing that great stuff. Let me go back to some confusion I even have in regards to when, many years ago, I remember add, and then all of a sudden, they changed the nomenclature to ADHD. So add was attention deficit, and then ADHD became Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. My personal feeling is that they change the diagnosis to be more inclusive so they can put more people on Ritalin or Adderall. What are your thoughts about the differences between ADHD? Add,

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

there's different subtypes that fall into that category of attentional challenges. We'll say it that way. There's oppositional defiant, there's the inattentive type, there's a hyperactive type. So there's different subtypes that medicine and the DSM have have quantified, because that's the world that they look to work in, right? I guess you might say much like we're saying subluxation in the cervical and subluxation of the left sacroiliac. And they say, What are you talking about? But here's the thing we like to let families know. And they call us all the time. This is probably the highest level need that we get calls from, more than anything else, is ADHD, at least, that's the diagnosis we come in with, and then we subtype it out based on an inventory we have the parents do, which is a standardization that we have, and we have them fill it out, and I say, okay, they're not ADHD. They're add based on this one outcome assessment that is a standardized evaluation called a Vanderbilt test. And. And we can see where they fall in that what's the benefit to us? That's more for the parent. What? Because I don't treat, I don't treat ADHD or ADD or or inattentive or odd, I don't treat that. You say, Well, I thought that's what you do. No, I treat the hardware that we believe is driving the imbalance. So that's not, that's not a that's not a play on words that I'm saying that I'll let the families know my goal is to improve that temporal lobe and that frontal lobe connection for your son, so that his attentional problems diminish and he's able to perform better in school. I'm treating the frontal temporal issue that I found in this examination. Oh, so I'm not treating his attention deficit per se. It's not semantics, if that's what I'm saying. I'm not trying to play a game with them. I'm trying to show them what's really behind the diagnosis. Because the diagnosis can be helpful for them in school, things where they get certain distinctions for longer Test, test taking time. But for us, it's less helpful, because I'm not giving a medication based on that diagnosis. I'm providing therapy based on the hardware, the maps that I found that the understanding what's going on inside the brain, that's what I'm trying to improve. And so when I improve those mechanisms, typically the condition that there's dealing with suffering with attention, in this case, and I'm going to call it three things, attention, focus and concentration, kind of overlapping things. It's not all the same. Those things will improve when I improve that, that hardware, so diagnosis is less important, although that's why people come to us and then I help them see a little bit more. I kind of open up a door to another room for them

Dr. Spencer Baron:

to use the car metaphor I imagine when you're mentioning this is that you're driving on on the expressway, and at 75 miles an hour, your car starts to shake. Is, is the solution? Don't go past 70 miles an hour or fix the problem. You know? So, right? That's, that's the beauty.

Unknown:

But what happens if you go to 100 does it even out?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Not usually, right? Not usually. The higher, the higher demands on the system often bring out, like the higher demands, like a stress test, often bring out. So you'll have a kid, a young person, that will have problems, and let's say they have a diagnosis externally. Let's say they've used medication. Maybe this is common. We use it during the school year. We're off in the summer. Okay? Then they become a teenager, higher stress, like Terry saying, driving at 100 now. Now that ain't enough. Now they're often, often not, not a lot, little amount of time self medicating, finding other things to help soothe their brain, because they can't sleep at night and their brain is racing and and I'm trying to self soothe, self soothe, and that usually leads into bad places for teenagers, as we know, right? So whether you're dealing and there's a lot of pharmaceuticals that are being sold among these teenagers now, so they're selling Adderall to each other, they're selling Xanax to each other, they're selling antidepressants to each other, and we see and and, of course, opioids all the time, all the time, we're seeing it. College kid just come in a week ago, dealing with migraines, bought some Adderall because it helps her migraine. So this has happened from a friend. So this is a big issue. So the more we can help people have other alternatives and fixed brain function, the better our young people are going to be, right, and the longer they're going to be safe and healthier.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

And by the way, Terry, if you're going 100 miles an hour that you get a traffic citation, just let you know anyway,

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

unless you're on a NASCAR track or

Unknown:

driving to Vegas. ADD and ADHD

Dr. Spencer Baron:

are sometimes considered a superpower. Yes,

Unknown:

I agree,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

right. Allows you to really hyper focus and be more innovative. And obviously, that's why some of these people want to, you know, take the the Adderall that you know, continue the stimulation. But you know what? When? When does thriving become a struggle?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Yeah, when I think that it's different for everyone, maybe, and I would think when you mention that it's true, right? It's the performance level is so high a performance enhancing substance being used all the time in different different realms, whether it's cognitive, physical, etc, but there's not one that enhances your emotions, and if you don't have the emotional bandwidth to handle that high level of performance, right? So here you're performing really well on the top end, but on the bottom, and your emotional well being is tanked because you're just going 100 miles an hour all the time, that's not sustainable, right? So. People, and we even see it with physical performance drugs, right? Physical performance, you're just up here, you're amazing, but your emotional state, there's depression, there's anxiety, there's all these things coming up because the brain can't handle that. Because we're, you know, we have multiple components to our humanity, not just the physical or not just the cognitive level of, you know, performance, but we have this emotional person in here too, our psychological self, which probably is the area that we suffer the most, I would say, right, whether it's some because the other things might be working, but the person inside is kind of like having a difficult time.

Dr. Terry Weyman:

You said something that really caught my attention, and nowadays kids are just getting, as you said, overstimulated and and they're we, I mean, Spencer and I were talking about this about a month ago, and how, especially after COVID, when everybody was stuck in front of a machine, and just get the constant stimulation and put people in the loop. And so now that 100 miles an hour, now they want 200 miles an hour, or they're stuck in her miles. And you just mentioned they can't sleep. They're just hyper focused all that kind of stuff, and they're being told that medication is the only answer. And so, other than self medicating, find anderol from a friend before turning this pharmaceuticals. What's some strategies to parents. Kids can take to calm themselves in the home, help focus, help them sleep. What's some stuff that they can start doing now that they're listening to us and they don't have a functional neurologist next door? What's some things that they can do as an alternative?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

So that it's an interesting question when we think about that, and I'm going to try to come from a direction that helps people think through a hierarchy, like, what could I do? Most people, I think when they're searching, they start looking for some supplement, right? What supplement can I give them? Not a bad idea. But let's think about the sensory inputs. What can we do? Well, the biggest sensory input is from here down right. My body is bigger, obviously, than my head, my vestibular they're powerful, but my body is a big sensory input. So I would say, if I have a child, I would say doing some things that are considered body work, that that language, right, getting a child adjusted affects their whole nervous system dramatically. So getting adjusted, chiropractic adjustments affect the nervous system in such an amazing way that would be a huge thing. And I would say, Yeah, you should consider that. In fact, many of the clients that come into us, I'll ask the family, have you ever had your child adjusted? No, never, never. It's like, for us, it's like second nature. It's like, what? But never. And then I feel some of these kids next, and it's like, wow. So I will adjust them. That's a small component of what we need to do for them. Then we might do something like a percussion a vibratory therapy, very slow, because we're trying to calm and lower the over arousal pattern. So I'm using the body inputs, so massage, adjustment, percussion, some people even like oriental medicine, acupuncture. I think that could be great for kids, things that lower the level of arousal. What I also see from parents when they're saying, Well, what can we give them is, well, we have them in three sports or two sports and a musical instrument to keep them busy. I said, that's not what we want to do, necessarily, because we're just going, going, going, going. That's not what I want to do. But if I don't keep them busy, I know. Think about calming their system down. Think about that they're thinking, I want to burn out the energy, right? That's keep them going, burn out the energy and then, though, but a lot of these kids, they get home, their body's tired, but their minds still racing, so they still can't sleep. So think about it, from a body input, sensory input, adjustments, massage, vibration, a weighted vest. For some kids, I have a little one that I have, I put a weighted vest on him. Every time he comes in, he's much calmer. If I don't put that weighted vest on, he starts getting all over the place, right? Weighted blankets. Very good sensory inputs on the wrists. There's all little devices and things that can be used. It's body input to the brain bottom up, then we think about top down. What about the eyes and the ears? Is there a sensory input that calms them down, slows them down, listening to certain brain wave patterns. If you don't even have yet a brain map, we would do things that would calm the brain down. So we would use, maybe a device that's called Brain tap, which is a headset with a visor with lights that flicker at a certain frequency, and there's music played. That's just one of many devices, but it's one that we like for people, and that could soothe and calm the brain wave over activity. So now I've given something for the visual and the auditory and for the body that could all be successful. I could layer in there some supplements. What supplements? Well, you know, supplements are kind of a tricky thing. They're not dangerous, but they're tricky because people try and throw so much thing, they throw it all at the wall and see what sticks. We don't like to do that. I like to look at labs with children, young people, teenagers. I like to look at their labs often. They haven't had lab tests done in a while because they're healthy, so they haven't had things done. So we'll look at things like food sensitivities, or called food allergies in quest and in LabCorp food allergies, which goes undetected and unobserved most of the time. Most of the allergy testing will be done for, as you all know, IGE for anaphylaxis, and if they don't have that, they're off to the races. No, they're fine. But I'm looking at things that are more subtle, delayed reactions with IgG, and these are in the standard lab tests, but are rarely tested because they're not the gold standard for allergy testing. I agree they're not the gold standard, but they're the next layer that is, things that you're taking in every single day, right? So if I know, just as an example, that I have a anaphylaxis to bee stings into peanuts, okay, I know that I'm not going to be near those. But how do I know I don't have a food sensitivity, a food allergy to dairy and casein and gluten? And what are some of the other ones I see pineapple and just on and on. People have different sensitivities, and we remove those for a period of time, and they can perhaps reintroduce them, sometimes not. And you're decreasing inflammation in the body, and inflammation in my body, in my gut, is going to affect my brain. So when we're looking at metabolics and supplements, you see how I don't just jump in, take this, take this, take this. And say, let's get some labs. Let's look at what's going on, what could be related. Sometimes kids have a high viral load in their body, even though they're healthy. Oh yeah, they get sick a couple times a year. They always have, you know, sore throats. Maybe they're dealing with a chronic strep issue that's going to affect their brain. So we look at it from different perspectives, the sensory inputs first, then we look at the metabolic and now we have a really good, complete picture of how to start accurately based on measurements of that child coming up with. Listen to this guys their personal brain formula. That's what we do. Come up with your personal brain formula to help your child with. ADHD, do

Dr. Terry Weyman:

you know when we grew up, it was like we didn't have the internet. So you know, you go out and play and you do your experiment, and you don't come in until street lights come on. And now kids are almost born with earbuds in their ears, listening to music, 24/7, and a screen in front of their face, and you see the kids walking around with a phone and earbuds in. So they're constantly getting stimulated from the eyes and ears constantly, yeah? And as parents were like, I remember when I listened to rock and roll for the first time. My dad thought it was, it was a double music, right? And now our parent, our generation, is looking at these kids with earbuds and and a screen going, get off the screen, you know, go outside. Yeah. So what's some science effective strategies to simulate brain development with these kids growing up with the internet, with the that's how they socially connect to de stimulate, because they're just constantly simulate vestibular and I, how do we what's some strategies that won't cause World War Three at a household, when you pull that stuff away and the kid freaks and goes manic, what's some strategies for the home? Well, I'll tell you the

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

strategies, but first you got to give me, like, an amazing Thumbs up for personal brain formula. That's like a great thing,

Unknown:

right? There you go. Sorry for that. Was it or looked sorry.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

So you know that that's the that's the big battle. Actually, yesterday, with a new client from out of the country, the family was here, a 14 year old girl, and they said, our big problem is the iPad, that she's on the iPad all day long. So there's two things I think about, and it's just my personal experience, and then layered upon, you know, the neurology of it. We are in a very highly stimulating, or over stimulated environment most of the time, with young people, even with adults, right? There's always something that's vying for our attention. Always. I have my phone over here I haven't seen in this time, but there was one or two messages that came up right when we started. I'm not looking at that, but it's vying for my attention. I have emails over here, right? So we have all these things that are constantly much closer to us, especially kids. We have an ability, because of our age and our frontal development, to override that and say, No, not you. Now, no, they haven't developed that. In fact, they've many times been modeled the other ways. I mean, how many times we go to our granddaughters softball games and parents are paying attention, but a number of the parents are like on their phone, on their phone, on their phone, the whole. Nine, so that there, you know, there's an external component, I guess I'm saying Terry, which is the environment, the culture, the world, and then there's the internal environment, the frontal lobe, that's not fully developed, that can't suppress and repress what you know, what you want. So it's just like, not not enough inhibition that can be trained. But it's also, you can't train a 12 year old to have the inhibition of a 25 year old to have the inhibition of a 50 year old. It's not going to happen, but you can help them. So I don't know the answer. I think the answer is family by family, because it's very difficult. Like, which war do I win here? Which battle do I win? Do I win the battle of limiting time. And then, of course, both parents have to be on the same page, and then you have to be consistent with what you're doing. And I mean, we were pretty good at it, but again, we all raised our kids, it was just coming in. And I think we could have done a little bit better with some of the gaming, but you live and learn. You live and learn. So I think it's a personal issue, a personal battle, and people have to kind of set their own boundaries and model also what they want. But you can model all the right things. You can set the boundaries, and there's still a degree of autonomy that people are going to choose for kids. When they get become teenagers, they're going to choose what they're going to choose. And we really shouldn't beat ourselves up over that you do what you can, the best you can. Now, if you didn't do the best you could, maybe you could beat yourself up a little bit, but I don't think parents want to stay there. Because I really heard this. This was really wonderful. I heard this years ago. Billy Graham, most people know Billy Graham is right, evangelist, very famous. He's passed away. He had a number of children, but one of his kids who actually now is kind of taking the lead of that Franklin Graham. He went very wayward. You know, the lifestyle in the home was modeled a certain way, is provided for everything, but still made his own decisions, right? So that's what I'm saying, is do the best you can. Learn about boundaries, learn about how to be consistent, how to discipline and reward all the things that we know to do, and you have to learn these things when you're a parent, because this is a complex environment, electronically for people and kids. And don't beat yourself up over it. You gotta, you gotta, kind of find your line and say, I did what I could do

Unknown:

for those, for those kids that were,

Dr. Terry Weyman:

that were in a very developmental side during COVID with, you know, you know, during high school and college, where everything was online and their frontal lobes not developed. Are you seeing strategies to help these kids come back so it doesn't once they hit 2526 27 it they're not really behind the eight ball. You know, is there any some strategies that won't create a huge war at home, but also allow the kid to find a way out?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Well, I mean, I have to just speak from like, what is my thought about that? Right? Because there's not any, like, clear, clear data, but if I want to get someone's so a lot of the people that that struggled, young people during that time was due to isolation, electronics can continue to I was looking for my headphones here. I'm sorry, didn't happen today, but I've noticed this trend among 10 to 12 year olds recently wearing headphones all day long, not earbuds, headphones. All day long, I noticed this my granddaughter, and I said, Oh, and then I saw another one, and then I had another one. I'm like, Hmm, I think this is a thing that they're wearing headphones, not earbuds, but the headphones. And it kind of gives you like it separates me from the world. If I don't want to talk, I don't have to talk. I'm listening, right? And I'm in my own world, so this is further isolating human interaction, human navigation. Oh, I said the wrong thing. Oh, I better not. I better say it differently this time, right? We're learning by human to human relationships, and all these things are kind of pushing back another barrier for them, which I don't think is great. How do we approach that? I don't know, but let me say this one thing last piece. What can we do? Exercise. I think exercise is one of the best things to be honest with you, because you're going to engage your frontal lobe in a team sport, an individual sport, because you have to focus, you have to concentrate, you have to plan, you have to execute. Exercise has some of the best research compared to any other strategies for activating the brain and strengthening brain networks. So I would say, get these kids into some kind of sport where, at least during the sport, they have to put their phone down. You know, that's, I think that there's so many benefits from some kind of individual or team sport that you're going to reap a lot more bringing them back into functioning with people right, at least in a couple hours segment of practice and games than they would have if not, they're going to be on their phone with their things. ISIS. Lady, that makes sense, right? I think we all agree with that.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

I think it is absolutely criminal that they did away with physical education in schools. You have, you have young males, you know, having testosterone surges as they grow up and they want to be active, they want to be aggressive. They want to get out there during their intermission from class, and now they're not allowed to they come in, they're wired up, or they don't come in, they don't get any break, and they have to sit in class listening or or reading. And the teacher goes, Listen, you know, Quit hitting Johnny or quit, you know, running around. Quit doing it. You know, we're going to send you to the principal's office, and then they, you know, then they end up, you know, going to the doctor, and the doctor prescribed, you know, it's such a negative cycle. It's, it's vicious, but I think that's so characterized, yeah, exercise to get that energy out there, especially in young males that are maturing females as

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

well, the energy out and to really hit the frontal lobe and some of the other brain areas. When you start getting those brain areas working, so it's, it's the energy dispersion, right? It's also the brain activation too. So then, then that goes to, should I have them in a sport and a musical instrument? And then, no, that's too much. That's overload. No, but I want to burn out the energy. Don't think only energy, but yes, we want to have because we need that breakdown of ATP, right? We need that so now ADP builds up in the frontal lobe. Helps me sleep. So we need it, but we can go too far. I'm sure at our ages, we've all trained on a day, or many days, where you over train and you're like, Man, I'm having trouble sleeping. My brain is just I'm over tired, over tired. We don't want that, but we do want that brain activation from exercise. So I say 100% exercise.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Anyone listening, that's a parent. I'm also kind of concerned about the thought that there may be some other factors involved with why a child or an adult or a teenager would wear headphones as often as they do. There's two point other than wanting to shut out the world, but it's become a fashion statement or a fad that's one to look cool and wear headphones. Secondly, you have a sensory adaptation to the excellent acoustics that occur in headsets like that. So I wonder, you know, before the parent says, hey, you need to, you know, get that out and start being interactive, realize that kid is probably addicted to the look and the sound. Yeah,

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

yeah. I agree with that. I agree with that. That's a very good observation. With that

Dr. Spencer Baron:

said, What about adults? They expanded the scope of prescribing Adderall to adults. They said they, they, they allowed the the the possibility of, hey, maybe at, you know, 40 years old, you have ADHD, and that may be true to some degree, but adults have have fully embraced the idea of feeling scattered, overwhelmed, impulsive, and then going to get a prescription of Adderall.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

It's just the culture we live in. Man, it's just the culture we live in. It's difficult, it's challenging externally, and it's what people turn to to perform and to function. I saw something yesterday regarding moms and taking care of kids, which is stressful these days, maybe more than in the past. I don't know. Obviously, I'm not a mother, but it's a lot of demands on them with multiple children, and it was cannabis for moms and that they get together, these moms a couple nights a week, and they they enjoy, you know that, and then they play games, and it gives them a break. And but anything can go too far, right? Anything can go too far. If it's drinking, if it's cannabis, if it's Adderall, if it's performance, it's, you know, anything can go too far. The thing is, I think most people don't think they don't know where the too far is, because they think they're functioning pretty well. So we always come back to, not always the external things. Come back to, let's, let's do an evaluation of the brain. Let's do an analysis of the brain to see how well your brain hardware is functioning, because you're performing well. You're a mom with kids, you're you're a physician, you're a college athlete. You know you're performing well. You're doing well, but let's see what's going on in your brain so we can know. So we start, you know that kind of is not as something's wrong with me, and then we go from there, like, hey, we can maybe improve this for you. Of course, there are many conditions that people come in with conditions, but we want to still talk to them in a way that is building them up, that is providing them agency, that they have control over their health, that they have a direction, and they can improve things. And that takes a little detective work to know how to have empathy with patients. I know Dr Barron does Dr Terry, I mean you and I haven't spent enough time, but I would imagine if you two are closest, because you are that whole, complete. Kind of person as well, empathy, physical training, clinical excellence. So you have that whole thing that's such an important part of caring. So a lot of the things we're talking about, I don't have an answer, like, this is the general it's like, I have to see this family or that person and that adult and that teenager to know and talk with them. How do I need to communicate? What's going to help build them up and move them forward.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Dr Mike, you got any action steps that our listeners and viewers can take, especially adults, that would make an impact today, like something they could start with right away? Now, I know you mentioned exercise any, any other suggestions, or if you would like to elaborate on exercising, what type of exercise I

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

have a beautiful chart in my on my wall, actually, it's a big plaque, and it shows it's from a scientific article on way different exercises affect different regions of the brain. And it's just fantastic, because none of us here who have been exercising for years do only bench press, none of us. So we do, you know, weight resistance exercises and bands, and maybe we've used ropes, and we've done plyometrics in the past, and we've done dynamic stretching, and we've done yoga aerobics and HIIT workouts. So we've done this variety. So the variety is usually the best. You have a variety of things that will help the brain work in many different ways. So variety of exercises are best and and you can do some Google searches on that exercises effects on brain regions. And you'll you'll see some of these charts, which are beautiful pictures. They're easy to understand. Other things for people that recommend we did talk about the sensory inputs for attention. And so I'll mention these one things. Well, I'll mention brain tap. I think that's probably and I have no disclosures with them. I do not receive any compensation. But we use this headset, and there are other types, but what it is is audio visual and trainment. So it's it has many different programs, but we use the ones with certain brain frequencies, so alpha, delta, theta, beta and gamma and will person will wear the headset. Sometimes they'll put the visor down. Sometimes not. There's lights that flicker in there to the same frequency of the music, and there's Alpha frequencies or delta or beta embedded in the music. So you're just listening to a short period of time of music. But what that can do to someone's brain? In fact, one of the developers of it, who's the owner of the company as well, he was a meditator, person who meditated for years prior to developing that, and he said using that system has helped me get into a meditative state faster than all the years of work that I did before. That's something for someone who's been meditating for over 30 years before they tried it. So I think that that is a excellent piece of low cost technology that you can operate off your phone, like many of these things that can be used among different people in the family, and it's kind of self guided for the most part, and can alter brainwave function for the better, for sleep, stress reduction, attention improvement, arousal in the morning, if you're very sluggish, there's many different programs on there. So I think that would be probably a low cost piece of technology that's non invasive, that everyone can use. And I think it's an excellent tool

Dr. Spencer Baron:

to elaborate on that. And I think that not only are you so accurate in your description of this, but it there are some studies that a certain type of classical music with no no words, obviously classical music, and I might be botching this up with Mozart D minor, and it actually improves your ability to study, improves memory and spatial temporal reasoning, and that has been shown clinically. It's really I forgot about that. I haven't thought about that in years. That's a great, great, 100%

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

accurate, great quote. I think you actually mentioned the accurate components to that. And, yeah, all of this music has no no, no voices to it, no, no. But what you see in the classical music, and you see in many other types of music that are stringed instruments and things, instrumentals are a coherence pattern, right? A coherence pattern. And I might just throw this out, not that I have evidence, but some music that might be like when we were younger, might be a little more wild over the top, may have a not a coherence pattern that we would cause the brain to oscillate at a more steady state. It might oscillate really high and really low. I can think of a few artists that I used to listen to. We won't mention them, but yes, classical harmonics and and I'm not an expert in this ours. My son is in music, musicality and instruments as a musician, but there are coherence patterns that are more beneficial to the brain found in classical. Music that's 100%

Dr. Terry Weyman:

accurate. What's your, hey, what's your thoughts on binary beats and synovial rhythms, very

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

similar to what's played through the headset. So you can actually, let's say you didn't buy the headset. You didn't want to do that. You can get binaural beats apps on the phone. You can listen to those. And then there's great benefits. Okay, you would still be using those. A person would still be using them, saying, I'm not sure which one I need, but let me try this, and there's some explanations, right? I'm having trouble with sleep. I'm having this so it still wouldn't limit me from saying, at some point this year I want to get a brain map so I really know what my brain waves are doing, so I can set the right binaural beats more specifically, right? So we're always like that, right? I wouldn't want to have plates that I work out within my gym with no numbers on them. I mean, I know by the sizes after so many years, but what if they were all the same size? I don't even know the weights. Wait, I'm not sure. So we want a little more specificity. But if you don't have that, you can use those apps and you can do gentle experimentation with yourself in alpha brain waves and maybe theta to relax yourself. And I'm sure you'd be very safe in that, and those are very good to do. I've

Dr. Terry Weyman:

seen when you go to certain music apps, that you'll have synovial rhythms and it'll give you awakening, you know, depression, this and this. And you can listen to those like in the morning or in the evening to sleep, and then you have binary beats, it will break it down as well. Is that something that you know, because most people have music on their phones, that's something you would recommend in the morning or at night to help sleep, to listen to drinkers? Okay? Absolutely.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

I think it's worth a try, because it's, it's low cost. It's very efficient. It's on their phone, and I think the safety level is pretty high. I think it's worth, worth trying for sure.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Karen has the speakers that conduct the BIur beats before going to sleep to calm things down. And they're pretty cool. They're almost mesmerizing to some degree. Yeah, very good. Dr Mike, you are fantastic. We're gonna go into our rapid fire questions, and I know you're always ready, willing and able. Are you ready for number one

Unknown:

go?

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Dr Bagnell, you've been on countless shows and had deep conversations about the brain and human potential. But what's one question you wish someone had asked you, but never had, and now that we're here asking, what is? What would be your answer?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

What's one question they would ask me? I wish they would ask me. Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind, I guess that's what I should say, is that, you know, the discussion is often in healthcare, about the body, many times about the brain, of course, about the brain, but very rarely about the spirit, very rarely, and that, why would that be something to consider? Because if we're if we're a three part person, and I believe we are a three part person, meaning body, right contact, the physical environment, soul, which comprises the mind, the brain, the mind, the emotions and the will, all of our brain function. Basically, that's the psychological self. It's who I am, my soul. But that every human being has a third part, which is the spirit. And I think probably the majority of that, what is it? 8 billion people would say, Yeah, we probably have this thing called the Spirit. But rarely has that ever come up when it comes to anything regarding health. And I remember hearing a chaplain many years ago at one of the hospitals who works with all different faith physicians would say, I attempt to help them understand that the patients are three parts, because if you just treat the body, and we've experienced that with other physicians, perhaps, where it's very cold, very cut and dry, but then the person's suffering because you dropped a bomb on their Life, right? And so their soul is like really suffering, but they also have this component called the Spirit. So he would help them, regardless of their faith, to have a consideration for that, so that they might be more aware, and in the awareness, they might be able to serve people better. And so understanding a little bit about the spirit would always be a good question. I'd like to let's open that door and go through it a little bit, because I think it's a fascinating place that doesn't get enough attention.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Question number two, let's look back at 10 year old. Michael Bagnell, if you could send one letter, just one single paragraph back in time. What would it say?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Don't smoke those two packs of Menthols in one day. That was a big mistake. Big mistake. Don't do it. But the reality was, I never smoked another cigarette since then. You actually did that? Yeah, 10 years old, with this kid who was maybe 13, and he had these packs. So we smoked one after the other. I was so sick, like that's never happening, so maybe it was a blessing to skies. Yeah, I would say, Hey, man, don't do that. You don't need that. That's true immersion.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Oh, that's a great one in your in your journey of understanding the human brain, behavior, personal growth and all that. What's the biggest belief you once held as truth, but later realized who I was completely wrong?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Well, that would definitely be related to the brain. You know, one of, one of the answers would go back to the spirit, but most we left that one already. So the other would be about the brain, is that, you know, the way the brain really functions. We're just tapping or scratching the surface on that, and in that, every year to two years, something happens in neuroscience that I realized, Oh, that's not really why it's that works. It works actually this way, based on the newest data that we have. One of those things that was surprising was in chiropractic, that was probably one of the bigger ones in the professional aspect of my life, was that, you know, all these areas of we'll call misalignment in the spine, that many of them have the high probability of being caused by neurologic compensation, yes. And that was like, what? Because I would think that these are the primary thing. Then when you really open up that window and look into the neurology, go, oh, the recurrent aspect of that. Now, of course, there's some from injuries and things which we realize, right, but it's not possible to physically move one bone on another volitionally, like I can't do that. It's more reflexive in its neurology. So these things happen by automatic by movement. And so thinking about that caused me to really reconsider the significance and importance of why people should be getting adjusted, and two, why their brain needs to be evaluated in relation so you get even a better response in the adjustment and then their brain function.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

And for the listeners and viewers, again, to put that into some very, very practical perspective, you can crack someone's neck all day long because they feel like they're doing this, and yet you didn't identify the fact that they have some hearing loss in one of the ears, and they're always doing this motion, and until you put a hearing aid in, then you can listen with A certain posture perfect. I think that's fantastic. I'm glad we brought that up. Now, let me ask you, you know, I've been, I've we've been friends for so long, and you've been through, you know, a few iterations of a healthcare provider, as you are today, if you look back, what was that? What was that moment that may, that you may have gone down this life path that could have changed everything, versus where you're at now based on, like, one decision that you might have made in

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

the professional career or in life in general? Well, I mean, it keeps coming back to the same thing, my life changed dramatically when I discovered my faith dramatically, and that took a very In fact, my mom asked me some years later about a situation when I was in college. I had gotten into some things with the law as a college kid, not uncommon that happened to a friend of mine years later, my mom said, Didn't you really change after that, and I said, No, I cleaned up my act, but I didn't really change. When I really had an internal transformation that I was like, Okay, this is real. Was when my faith hit the ground running. That's all of a sudden things shifted, and people even notice what happened to you. Something's different. And it wasn't because I was saying this or doing that, or telling them this or tell them they were saying something is different with you. And I where I noticed that was when I went to, like, my 15 or 20 year high school reunion, and all these people were like, who are you? And it wasn't because I was a chiropractor, and it wasn't because I was preaching this or that there was something emanating from me which I was thankful for that was different. So that was in that aspect that changed me. And then when I graduated chiropractic, I started into this neurology course for doctors of chiropractic, and that caused me to be like, I got the bug. I was like, oh, there's something here that I really love. I did have to put it on the back burner for many years with a family, and I had to just kind of do what I needed to do. But I always was interested, and I would read different things on my own, and then eventually, as you know, the rest of the story is I dove fully into that, the next iteration of who I. To who I wanted to be in practice, as many of us have, and now we're at a level where actually even something happened last week that I went to experience some technology that is really on the cutting edge of changing, I believe what's still possible in improvement of brain function, which I'll have to we'll have to talk about another time. That'll

Unknown:

be number four. That'll be the fourth. That'd be the fourth interview. It'll have to be

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

like in the fall. Okay, I'll let you know as progress. But anyway, I experienced because technology with knowledge can really give you great breakthroughs. As you know, you need the knowledge, but sometimes the technology, sometimes can give you a great breakthrough in something.

Unknown:

And you're a

Dr. Spencer Baron:

gadget guy, you love that stuff.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

I do. I find them fascinating. I'm not so savvy technologically, but when something has the ability like, I mean, Dr Barron, you and I know, we cannot see the accuracy of saccades. You can't see it. It's so fast a saccade is a fast eye movement, you can't see that the way a measurement device can show you. And then you're like, wow. And then you're not able to see after adjustment, the change, unless you have that same measurement. So there's value in it. And of course, you can go too far with anything. I don't want to be, I don't want to be whatever that show was with a guy with all the tools, but I do like having things that give me greater insight into the way the brain works. So if I can, I will. I was just

Dr. Spencer Baron:

talking about you the other day to a patient that where you have that that monitor that tracks your pupils, and there's a passage that comes up on the screen that you can figure out how and why someone has reading comprehensions below normal, because they're all over the place, and they're not, and you can and it tracks their eyes, yeah, and, and then it puts it on a, on a, on a, on a grid, but on the paper that they're reading, and you see, what, how, all I

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

mean, right? That's a phenomenal thing when someone has a reading issue. So technology has its place. It has its place, and it doesn't take out the art of being a proper physician, but together, proper physician, with the knowledge and the training and with a piece of technology gives you greater insight that's non invasive. Wow, now we have a beautiful marriage. I

Dr. Spencer Baron:

agree. And you know, I think it is extremely important to mention that gadgets will complement a good physical exam. That that I believe the the art of the physical exam is lost in the medical profession, even some chiropractors. And that you go to your orthopedic and he goes, you tell me you said something about your knee. You say something about your knee, he goes, Well, let's do an MRI. There's technology that he's using in place of a good physical exam for the knee. So I think it is extremely important, because you have a fine balance between the ability to examine physically and communication skills and then order the appropriate tests, rather than just, I

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

think that's right. I think I heard it said like this, that your diagnostic tests, your technology, should confirm what you're finding on your physical exam.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Nice. I

Dr. Terry Weyman:

love these rapid, rapid fire questions we get Laurie

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

that time, though, it's that time, yes,

Dr. Spencer Baron:

yes, and we are on time. One last question. Fast forward many years from now, Mike, your time on this planet is done. At your memorial, someone steps up to speak about the impact you made on their life. What do you hope they say?

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

Good question. Well, I think you want them to have an experience with you. I think I'll say it this way, I went to the My wife and I went to a funeral of one of our patients, my patients, several weeks ago, and this is what I would not prefer now. I love this guy. Was very wonderful guy, very sweet. But every person's statement, which was very heartfelt and touching, was about how much of a life of the party he was. He was the life of the party. He was the party. He was the party and the party and the living and party. That's not the epitaph that I want to leave, that I was the life of the party, that I was some silly joke telling guy, I'd want it to be that whatever I said or did actually was a support to someone, was a contribution to them. I don't want to be known as that. So I want, I want to not be known if I something silly or foolish. In fact, that's why I tell one of my step my stepbrother said, I don't want you talking at my epitaph at my service, because you know too many things, and you you too silly. You couldn't say something like off the chart. So we're not going to go there. I want, we want someone. We want to leave something that has helped someone right, whether it's our own children, whether it's a colleague. I mean, you know, I would hope that. Would be something they say. He was quiet, but he contributed to my life. Amen, that's good enough.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Dr Michael begnell, I always appreciate these, these programs and the interaction on an official level and even on a personal level, we have these wonderful talks. So thank you so much, and I can't wait for interview number four.

Unknown:

Poor Pete. Poor

Dr. Terry Weyman:

Pete, thank you, Mike. You're always been the blessing and, and, and you are a very powerful yet quiet and impactful man. So thank you for all that you bring to the table.

Dr. Michael Bagnell:

You're a good man. Appreciate y'all.

Dr. Spencer Baron:

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at cracking backs podcast. Catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.