Sleep Smarter, Live Longer: Insider Secrets from Mattress Expert Fred Kunke

Are you giving more thought to the car you drive than the mattress you sleep on? Think again. We spend nearly a third of our lives in bed, and the quality of your sleep doesn’t just determine whether you wake up groggy or refreshed—it impacts your brain health, mood, recovery, performance, and even how long you live.

On today’s episode of the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we sit down with Fred Kunke, a veteran in the mattress and sleep industry who’s spent decades helping people transform their nights (and their lives) by finding the right sleep system—without the gimmicks.

In this episode, we cut through the marketing noise and get real about:

• The biggest mistakes people make when buying a mattress—and why they keep repeating them.
• The truth about firm mattresses and back pain (spoiler: it’s not one-size-fits-all).
• What you need to know about toxic fiberglass in mattresses and how to protect yourself.
• Cooling vs. contouring—which is best if you sleep hot or struggle with temperature at night.
• Whether smart mattresses are worth the hype or just another expensive gadget.
• The step-by-step framework Fred uses to match people with the perfect mattress.
• Why your pillow and sheets can make or break your night.
• Simple, low-cost sleep hygiene hacks that dramatically improve rest without spending a dime.

This isn’t another sales pitch—it’s the insider’s guide to better sleep from someone who’s been on the front lines of the sleep industry for years. If you care about your health, performance, and longevity, you can’t afford to miss this one.

Learn more about Fred Kunke and his work here:

• Fred Kunke Website

 Tune in now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube, and start sleeping smarter tonight.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:00

Well, hello everybody. I'm actually kind of excited about today's show, because, you know what, we spend a third of our lives in bed, and sleep is such a hot topic. And even as doctors, when people ask us about mattresses, sometimes we really don't know, because it's constantly changing. And you know, and poor sleep, poor sleep is just more about not just being about being tired, but it affects your brain, your body, your mood and even your longevity. So let's cut through the noise. Get rid of the commercials. Let's get rid of all the gossip and all the crap out there. Forget the ads. We have a real insider guide to better sleep. Welcome to the show, Fred,

Fred Kunke: 0:42

thank you. Glad to be here.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:45

All right, Fred, let's dive right into it. You know, what are some of the top mistakes people keep making decade after decade, day after day when it comes to mattress shopping, and why do you think they keep repeating them?

Fred Kunke: 1:00

Well, to me, the biggest thing is, is that they don't really invest the time to figure out exactly what they need, especially with today's market, you can just buy a mattress online, push a button and it'll show up at your house. But the reality of it is, the way I look at it is this, you don't have to spend 10,000 spend$10,000 to get a mattress that's going to do a good job, that's going to support you, give you a good night's sleep. Last a long time, but a lot of people will come in, and they don't. They really don't want to spend much of anything to get a mattress, right? It's, it's, it's like, if you had to take it home and park it in your driveway so that all your neighbors could see it, right? You'd spend, you'd spend some money on it, because that's the way that it is. But it's kind of in the bedroom, under sheets, under blankets, and people just really, they kind of don't understand that. To me, the way, here's what I think of, sleep changes everything. Just like your introduction, sleep changes everything. Lack of sleep is deprivation. It's it can work with your immune system. You can get ill, like you said, longevity. So the big thing is, is you really have to, you really have to dig deep and dive a little bit into it and have and have some help explaining what benefits you can get out of it, and kind of go from there. That's the big thing for me.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 2:49

You know, you've been selling or in the mattress business for over 40 years and and things have changed dramatically, but some things haven't changed. What's some of the questions you still get every day that you've gotten for 40 years that people just don't seem to get, because people seem to research a car that they drive in to and from work more than they research a mattress that they sleep on six to eight hours a day for their entire life. So what are some single biggest questions you get asked every day.

Fred Kunke: 3:23

In all fairness, though, mattresses are more difficult because they all look the same when you walk into when you walk into a mattress store, you're looking at all of these rectangles, and they may have different covers on them, but they kind of look the same. So it's a little more confusing. There's no esthetic value when you're staring at a mattress as as a vehicle or something else like that. So the main people do a lot of research, and it can be helpful. And then sometimes it works the opposite way, right? It's kind of like going when you're online, you often can go down a rabbit hole, and then get confused and then stop. Is really what happens. But the main thing is, is people really do want the correct thing. They want support, they want comfort, and they want longevity. That's really what it is. But when you asked about when you mentioned that there's a lot that's changed and a lot that hasn't, there's a ton that has changed in in the 40 to 50 years that I've been doing this, there's just a lot mattresses used to be all just an inner spring mattress. And you you could have your choice of of one of the major three brands that were out there at the time, Sealy, Serta, Simmons, temper, Pete, Tempur, PETA came along and really turned that on its head. So you're dealing now with something that doesn't even have coils or springs in it. Big changes with that and the research that. Put into that type of a mattress from that particular company anyway, is, is, is amazing. It's, it doesn't mean it's the best mattress or it's the only mattress out there, but the changes are, are such that, honestly, I feel like there, there's just been so many. I mean, now you can get a bed inside a box. Comes in a little box. They can ship it to your home. It can come to us. We have them on our floor too, from all of the manufacturers that that make them. But really it's it. It comes down to people always asking, you know, what's the best mattress? And there's no real answer to that. There's, there's too many of them out there to be a best mattress. You know, it's really,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 5:47

please no, I was just gonna say, based on that, it was always interesting for many, many, many years. You know, you would when a patient would ask us, as chiropractors, you know, what's the best for my back? And I would often say a firm mattress is best. But do you have a different point of view on what is the best mattress? As far as you know, soft or or or a firm mattress

Fred Kunke: 6:15

only slightly. You're You're absolutely right. Firm support is, is is by far the best. You need firm support. But what your comfort level is, as long as you've got a firm support can vary. It depends if you're a side sleeper, a back sleeper, all of that is really important in assessing what's going to work best for you as an individual, for instance. So yeah, you definitely need the firm support, and that usually comes from a firm coil system, if it's a coiled mattress, but then, depending on what you want to put on top of it, can give you the comfort that will work best for you or any individual. And nobody's the same.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 6:59

You know, that's a really good point. Nobody is the same. And for years, we would think, you know, firm, it fits all. But what I would was fascinated over the years is that the realization that a patient might injure their back their firm mattress actually aggravates them by morning, so they go on this mushy couch and they feel better, you know, now and then the other way around, I would have somebody had a bushy bed, and they would go lay on the floor and in their back would feel better, you know. So I started to realize that there, you know, it really deserves a lot more investigation of, like you said, the patient's sleeping patterns, you know, so one of my questions I often ask almost all the time, ask is, do you sleep on your back, your belly, or your sides? And then I go down to the list from there, do you how do you determine which mattress to guide someone to?

Fred Kunke: 8:04

Well, it's really a similar process. Basically, we have to find a starting point and then work off of that. In my opinion, when you're talking about firmness of the mattress, you have to work in either direction off of that. And so really, when you're determining that, you have to figure out or ask the questions, pretty simply is, do you sleep on your side or on your back? Usually, somebody that sleeps on their back requires a little firmer mattress than somebody that sleeps on their side, because pressure relief is, is really important. Support is great. You need it, but pressure relief. So if you're a side sleeper, you don't want to have pressure on your shoulders and your hips as much, because that causes you to move at night more. So you want to, you want to sleep as soundly as possible with less as little movement as possible. So that's it.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 9:04

But what Hold on, Spencer is built like a brick Shoe House. He and he's a he's a very muscular, he's not tall, but he's very stocky. I'm really tall and thin. And sometimes you see even couples where the husband's big and the wife is small, and vice versa isn't bone structure and muscle structure also have a good play, because you may say, with firm for the big guy may be too soft for the wife. And how do you look at those balances?

Fred Kunke: 9:34

It's a challenge. It's a real challenge, to be honest with you, because that, but that's why they make so many options with regard to we have mattresses that are split. One side can be a little softer, one side can be a little firmer, but but finding that mix, I go through this daily, finding that the right mattress for a couple, where he may be 250 Pounds, and she could be 110 is not any it's not easy. And really, somebody has to acquiesce somewhat because, if because, if not, they have to have, then they're gonna have two different, basically, two different types of sleeping surfaces. We do have some mattresses that that will adjust in firmness as well, so that you can get it you can, you can. They're basically what they are is their air mattresses, the ones that we have are, they're really nice. They have pods, air pods inside them and but you can, you can make one side a little firmer and one side a little softer based on customers needs.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 10:43

I'm hearing more about that lately. Here I got, I got bit of nostalgia for you. Have you sold a water bed?

Fred Kunke: 11:01

I'm smiling because I thought that's where you're going. Yeah, I think, I mean, I had one, maybe we've all had one on this podcast, but we did have them, but that's been more than 20 years, and they weren't the traditional water beds. They were beds with the water tubes inside them, baffles and channels, and, you know, a sophisticated water bed, not the bladder on the floor, which is, which is what I had.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 11:34

We're talking about firm versus soft. And I have to laugh, because I remember going from a hard a heart as a kid, a hard bed, and I discovered this thing called a waterbed. And Fred, this was like, like, sleeping in the ocean. I mean, you it was just, you know, you step it, you You remember, right? I mean, yeah. And I gotta tell you, Terry, I felt like, when I would lay in bed, I felt like, like the bed was hugging me so and it was soft, and I had the best sleep. But then, as I got older, I had to get the the the one that was more firm, it looked like it looked like a mattress, but it was a waterbed with the baffles,

Fred Kunke: 12:19

right? So, yeah, a pretty good point you just mentioned is, as you got over, yeah? So this is what happens, honestly, what you could sleep on when you were 20, even 30. You can't the same person has different needs when they're when they're 5060, and 70 years old and older. There's no doubt about it, yeah, it's, that's why there are so many, there are many, many options.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 12:46

So go ahead, no, I was just gonna say, like sneakers, you know, not, not, yes, sneak that's what I tell patients when they're asking me about a bed. You know, you that's like me. You know, they got firm mattress, right? I go, Well, you know, do your sneakers fit your wife? Do your sneakers fit that guy next to you? You know, that kind of thing. Go ahead. Terry, what we use?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 13:08

Really good point. Well, you mentioned in the very beginning that it's gotten more complicated, but people could still go online and just hit a button have it delivered in a box. How do they how do you, if it's so complicated, how do you can't just research online and hit a button on a box? I mean, I mean, this is something you spent eight hours a day. How do you when somebody walks into a mattress store and you said they all look the same? How do you pick it a mattress out by laying on for 30 seconds? I mean, I don't it's such a tough concept. It really, when you think about they all look the same. There's no way you can go online and pick a pick it with a box or buttons.

Fred Kunke: 13:52

Well, that, honestly, that's done through marketing. And what I mean by that is reviews and marketing. So when it's almost like, if you jump on Amazon and you're looking at, you know, two different pairs of socks or something, and one has 50,000 reviews and one has 200 reviews, you you gravitate to the one that has 50,000 reviews. So there's a lot of that in this industry with regard to reviews, five star reviews. But the reality of it is, it's, it is very difficult. And I would tell you that that's, it's more it's more general, generational, younger generation. When we were younger, we could sleep on the floor almost anything. So having said that, you know, the younger generation has no problem pushing the button or pulling the trigger and buying something online and and it can be just fine. But now they are getting even more sophisticated because. Because all the brands that we carry, you can purchase online as well, but most of them at the price ranges that they're at. If you're buying a Tempur Pedic or a Beautyrest Black or any of these more expensive beds, people want to try it. And they do, and that's why we exist.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:24

So you made a, made an interesting point about a generation that, you know, you get a, you know, 1000 5000 reviews on a, on a, on a bed, on Amazon, versus maybe 200 let's say, but you know, you got all these sleep influencers out there right now, and you know they're, they're talking about how great a night's sleep they get, so people will just trust in that person. But you know, there's also a lot of conversation. In fact, we had somebody, a chiropractor that did his specialty was in nutrition. But also, remember the Healthy Home? Terry, yeah, and like, you just want to move out of where you're at, because the paint the floor, the carpet, so the beds and the possible toxic fiberglass or the matches. What do you tell someone that's very concerned about the materials they're sleeping on.

Fred Kunke: 16:27

So there's several things. One is, if they're that concerned, they can certainly buy organic. We have organic mattresses. Organic is not hard to find in mattresses, but honestly, every manufacturer that manufactures mattresses in this country has to go through certifications to make sure that their their materials that they put in in them are completely harmless and chemically free, and no talk anti no toxins in them. So it's, it's not like it used to be. There used to be some things that were in mattresses that were not healthy for you. But that's really, that's really should be a non issue, unless you're allergic to certain things.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 17:20

Interesting. So I got a really, a really cool question for you that years and years ago, one of my one of these monster size NFL guys, came up to me and told me that what would be a good foam mattress, and at the time, we were on the cusp of, you know, entertaining this idea of foam mattress, you know, the only foam, no springs or anything like that. And so he went and just, you know, obviously, paid pretty penny for a new, new age foam Tempur Pedic, I think it was. And now this thing was not where it, you know, gets shrink wrapped and comes in a box this big, this, this can't this is back in the day when they just hauled this thing out to you and he regretted it. Why, like I said, this is a cool question. It he said he would overheat in that bed. He would get so warm and and even his his wife, who liked a a room that was a little bit more she even said, or was his girlfriend, she even said that it was too hot in that bed and the material. I guess the materials have changed. But what would you how do you guide someone who says that they sleep hot at night or they want something that would stay cool?

Fred Kunke: 18:57

Really important, actually, because a lot of people sleep warm. So when it comes to foams, memory foams, you're, you do. They're, they're pressure relieving, so they're slow compression and slow release, so you actually sink into them. So when you sink into something it wraps around you, so that creates warmth. I will say this, though, for Tempur Pedic, in its defense, they make the absolute coolest degree wise mattresses that you can purchase. They, they, they have, they have a line called their breeze line, Tempur Pedic breeze. And these mattresses are designed to keep you anywhere from five to 10 degrees cooler for the entire night. They put phase change materials in there that make it that make that happen, but the React, face change, that's a good question. What is phase change material. It's material that's designed to absorb and dissipate heat. Yeah, so it's, it's, they call them breeze. So they're cooler to the touch, because they they can have some cooling covers on them, the material, the actual mattress ticking on top of it. That adds to the coolness, but, but the whole idea behind it is that's one of the major, major things in Sleeping is, is heating, overheating when you sleep. That's why people are constantly taking covers off and putting them on, right? Yeah, as an example, my wife sleeps with a pile of covers on her, and I can sleep with just a sheet. So everybody's different. It's just the way that it is. So in general, though, if you're if you're not going to be buying a mattress that has that cooling technology, and nobody has it like Tempur Pedic, there are others that have it. You want something that you will sleep on and not in. So as as an example, we do a lot with mattresses with latex or late coils and latex. And latex is real rubber from a rubber tree, right? So it's 100% natural as well. That's what organic mattresses are made out of. And it's, if you can picture rubber, it's like a ball. So it's put always pushing up, not sinking into so that on top of a coil system is, is a real it's, it's a it's, it's cooler than something that's, that's, just has foam on the top of it, no doubt about it. So interesting. That's what Dr Terry sleeps on,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 21:47

very good. No wonder why he's so cool. All right, so and rubbery and rubbery. You know, with that said, the, you know, again, in defensive temp, repeating. This was in the early, early stages of foam mattresses. And since then, they've become much more technological in their their construction, because they catered to the fact that people would feel like they were sleeping in a honest, in a sauna. You know, they would get so hot. But you also mentioned something else that was really interesting, and how, you know, people would tend to sink, and the bit the foam would wrap around. Well, that's that. It's funny. That's that same NFL guy that I was mentioning about to one of the problems he had was something called canyoning that I learned, canyoning, being that the the bed would start to take the shape of your body, even when you weren't in the bed. So, you know, that it would just, you know, create a perfect mold of you, which allowed you to sink even deeper into it. Or if you tried to turn, you know, it almost forced you back, because it was still had a mold of your body after many, many, you know, after many nights, like months and months. So they had it. They had a, actually, it was interesting. They had a guarantee that if that bed canyoned too much and caused they would have a money back guarantee. So he called the company, and they came out that tell me, if you're familiar with this, the company would come out, they would put a steel beam across the bed, and they would measure the difference, and if it was more than, like, whatever, three inches or something, they would that was the guarantee. If it was more than three inches, they would totally take back the bed or return it, or something like that. Are you familiar with that? Or was that is that, you know, an age old

Fred Kunke: 23:54

No, oh, no, that's still a thing. Oh, with any manufacturer in any mattress. And basically what you're talking about is a bed that sags right, yes, premature, prematurely and, and that's every manufacturer has some sort of a warranty regarding that. And so as an example, once again, let's bring up Tempur Pedic, because they're, they're their top drawer, when it comes to this, they really are so a mattress, the only thing that can happen to them, most mattresses, but especially a mattress that's made of temper material, right? Just foam. Temper material is that it can, it can sag. It's it's not. There's no coil to poke out. There's no bulges to happen. It just basically under the under your weight over a period of time. So the the most mattress companies have a warranty that's designed for 10 full years, and it's not prorated, meaning that that ninth year that you're on that mattress is as strong as the first day that. You get it, and if it ever gets a body imprint in it, let's take Tempur Pedic, for instance. If it ever gets a body imprinted in it that exceeds three quarters of an inch when you're not in that mattress, it's defective, and they'll replace it. Most manufacturers with coils are the same, except for the only difference is if it ever exceeds an inch and a half when you're not in the mattress, just like you said, if somebody put a something straight across it, and they measured it and it was over an inch and a half, that mattress is defective, and it's if it's within that 10 year warranty period, the manufacturer replaces it.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 25:49

Hey, I got a question. We hear about, you know, routine tires your car, and we used to hear about flipping mattresses. Is that still a deal?

Fred Kunke: 25:59

It's still a deal to spin them from head to toe. But is not you can't flip them anymore. There are probably some made out there that you can, but it's, it'd be a very small minority of the mattresses manufactured. The difference is the the all of the coil systems have gone to they used to be like just a large coil system inside a mattress that would go up and down like this. Now they're all individually wrapped pocketed coils which are which is the superior way to do it, and most companies have that. So what happens, though, if you have a mattress, and let's say you wanted some padding on it, and you had padding on the top of it, a coil system, and then padding on the bottom of it, and their individual coils. When you're on the top of it, you're going to take those individual coils and push them down into the bottom padding as well. So you're going to actually create a deeper well when you're in that bed. So now what they do is they put a just a base piece of what they call high density material, foam pocketed coil, on top of that, and then all your materials on this. So when you're on it, that coil has nowhere to go but push back up so you don't flip them anymore. And people, a lot of people, will they still say, Oh, they don't flip them anymore, because they're trying to make it less less expensive, right? They're trying to save money. It's not that. That's not the reality.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 27:30

Let's do that. So how often do you spin them? You should

Fred Kunke: 27:34

spin them, realistically, four times a year, honestly, twice a year. So that's all you need to do every

Unknown: 27:45

50,000 miles.

Fred Kunke: 27:48

That's right. Exactly right.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 27:52

I remember, this is how long I've been in practice. I remember the days where we would tell a patient to flip the bed, but get somebody else to do it so they can hurt their back and end up his patience.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 28:01

Of course, you did brilliant. And, see, I went the other way. I went marketing, yes, and I went the other way. It's like, well, you know, twice a year if you're not very active in bed, and four times a year if you're if you're very active in bed, you know. So, yeah,

Fred Kunke: 28:23

two different coasts,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 28:27

although it's funny, because mentioning that, when was the last time you saw a commercial where kids were jumping on the bed using it as a trampoline? Those you don't see that

Fred Kunke: 28:38

anymore. Those days, they're not. Yeah, you're absolutely right. In

Dr. Spencer Baron: 28:42

fact, I remember a commercial when foam mattresses first came out. They would have a kid jumping on the bed, but they would have like a like a cup of coffee, or like a glass of wine, yeah? Or wine was it, yeah? And it would move. So it was, like, completely the antithesis of what, you know the attraction of a bed?

Fred Kunke: 29:03

There is no bounce? No,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 29:05

no. There is no bounce. Yeah, there was another question I wanted, or I have always been fascinated. Now with technology, they have beds that are smart beds, that you can have an app, and it gets it, and it starts to get to know your sleep patterns. But then you have the flip side of that, of these people that are going, oh my god, now I'm gonna be sleeping with radiation, or, you know, types of, some type of information, I might get away from my phone and, like, get away from these talking apps, because that's going to cause cancer. What's the argument between a smartphone and a healthy or a smart bed and a healthy bed?

Fred Kunke: 29:41

Well, most of the smart beds are not in the mattress itself. It's in the the what they call an adjustable base that goes below it, instead of putting a mattress on what we traditionally know as a box spring and a bed frame. That's one of the big. Changes that we've seen, honestly, I'd say, in the last 15 years, but really prominent in the last, probably 10, five to 10, is that now mattresses, almost all of them, are designed to be able to go on what the what they call an adjustable base, and that's where you can elevate your head or elevate your legs, or both, for all types of purposes, lift. You can sleep with your legs elevated a little bit if you want to relieve a little bit of back pressure, if you have any type of reflux or anything you can they have them. They have these bases now, and any mattress can sit on these. So it's not like you're looking for one that does a mattress that goes up and down. You're basically looking for any type of mattress that will work, and then you can put it on a base that will go up and down, that will adjust to different for different comfort levels they have some now that have little buttons there for anti snore. Well, it's designed to elevate your elevate the head up a certain degree. And I think that's, I don't know if that's 11 or 17, I can't recall right now, but it's designed to open the airway up right, so that it's so that you're not snoring. So there's just so many things. And yes, those applications are built, usually into that base itself. And those will they can monitor your sleep, your sleep patterns, how long you were in REM at what times, etc. It's usually what happens with those and this is just from my personal experience, is they're a lot of fun, and then you don't think about them as much anymore. That's really what it is. Because really all your what matters is, like I say sleep changes everything. You want a good night's sleep. That's really what it boils down to.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 32:03

You know, I would have to say that sleeping, or sleep has become much more of a health risk or hazard than ever before, and people are starting to recognize that. With that said, your education in gaining a quality night's sleep based on all the variables that you understand. I mean, you should be called a sleep doctor. So with that said, When a patient comes to us, we have an array of questions to ask based on their chief complaint, and someone comes to you and said, Hey, I need a better sleep. I hurt, I have allergies, you know, I got to share with that person that I sleep with, you know, and it's what, what is your like protocol when someone walks in like, what questions do you ask? Can you share some of the thoughts of how you hone in on what would be the perfect mattress, sure.

Fred Kunke: 33:02

So I'm not a doctor, so, but honestly,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 33:07

you just play one on TV, yes.

Fred Kunke: 33:10

But really that that process is similar, because I need to know, honestly, a number of things, a number of what I call qualifying questions, so that I can direct that customer or person to what is going to help them the best. And it starts with what they're on. You know, what have they been on? Is it is it just old? Is it bothering them? Is that why they need to make a change. And then it's the questions really go into, are you a side sleeper? Do you sleep on your back? Primarily, it's another critical element to that, honestly, is you have to have even the right pillow. I was

Unknown: 34:01

gonna ask you that, yes,

Fred Kunke: 34:02

really, really have the right pillow and and so when we what we do is we have, we we take the same pillow to different mattresses when they're trying them, so that, because it's critical, yeah, softer mattress on a pillow that has any size to it at all is, is going to be too tall, because a softer mattress you're going to sink into, and it's going to push your neck up firmer mattress. So you have to try. It's, it's really a marriage to a mattress and a pillow. There's no doubt about it, but, but really it's finding out what doesn't work. In my opinion, it's always that process of what's what doesn't work. More than you're never going to walk into any mattress store, lay on a mattress and say, This is the only mattress for me. Never works that way. It can't. There's too many options and choices, but spending time on the mattress is critical when you're. In the store, because, let's face it, you're you're not spending a night there, but you have to spend some time on the mattress, in the positions that you sleep. You have to wear loose clothes, right, not a shirt and tie, right? It's true, because that's the only way you're going to be able to the customer, the consumer is going to be able to figure out what's working and what's not working, from choice to choice.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 35:32

Do you have, do you actually have people bring in their pillows and and almost like they're cozies that they sleep on to try things out?

Fred Kunke: 35:40

You bet Absolutely, because they know that that's the pillow that they use at home, and if that pillow works for them, which oftentimes it's not, because we get stories of, I've got nine pillows on my bed, and I'm trying to get this figured out and but absolutely we do, there's no doubt about it. So, yeah, very, very important, I would say, to make sure I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 36:07

got quick question, yeah, someone comes in, they reveal to you that they have a sleep apnea machine. And, you know, you mentioned something earlier, you know, sometimes it's such an easy fix, but they're confined to this stupid sleep apnea machine for life. It could be their diet. It could be the fact, like you said earlier, if you could raise that that bed up a little bit at the headpiece, change everything for that person. Do you dive into that area at all.

Fred Kunke: 36:41

You know, if they offer it, I do, because I'm never going to ask somebody if they use a sleep apnea machine, right? But, but the point is, they will often say this, this is what this is. This is my situation. And the first thing I'll always ask them is, do they have a base that adjusts where you can raise your head. That's, that's the very first thing. And honestly, I, like I said, I have no idea if that will I know it will help. I don't know that it would eliminate a sleep apnea machine, right? But it definitely, it definitely can help, because a lot of times people will come in and say, I've been sleeping in my recliner now for over a year because I can't sleep in my bed. And that's, you know, another reason to get a base that adjusts up and down, because my wife and I both have, we have what are called split adjustables. They're side by side like this. It looks like one king size bed, but I sleep because of I sleep with my head up, and honestly, it helps me with acid reflux. My wife sleeps with her legs up. So we sleep completely different, but side by side.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 38:08

So All right, so sleep position aches, allergies, bed sharing, you know, I think one of the big ones for bed sharing, having the, you know, if you're you have another partner in bed with you that they are very independent. I think that that has become probably one of the most beneficial for those who need their customized approach to the way they sleep. I like that.

Fred Kunke: 38:41

And also you could they even have them now, I just love talking about this, but they have them now where just the head splits. So if you can picture a regular, rectangular bed like that in the center, just the head splits. So now you can be on an adjustable bed and still have the rest of the bed without that split, going down the center, if you choose. So really, really nice.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 39:07

So cool. Hey, for not to throw other places under the under the mat, but or under the truck, but for people listening this across the country, or even in other countries, what are some advice you have for consumers when they want to go in to look at the mattress, so they don't get suckered or they don't get taken advantage of?

Fred Kunke: 39:32

Well, really, there's, there's, I always say, do your research. First you have to do your research, and that's going to involve going online. You just have to, you just have to have a little bit of an open mind once you've done that, because if you've tracked down what you think is the only mattress for you and you want that, and we, in most stores, will have those that you're looking at online. We carry so many of the mattress. Is that you can purchase in a box or not in a box right online is, is be open, because you may get on that do after doing your research, you may dislike that mattress completely, so you have to try them. That's really that. The bottom line, in my opinion, is you have to try them.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 40:24

And then you got some stores that just sell one kind of mattress, you know, you have your sleep numbers, or you have your this or that, and you go in and you're stuck with one is, I mean, that's always a scare for me, because, like, well, that's the only thing they're going to push those mattresses, because that's the only ones they have in the store, versus somebody has a ray of different stuff, correct?

Fred Kunke: 40:45

And, and once again. And that's it. That's another good example. Sleep Number and

Dr. Spencer Baron: 40:53

there. There's

Fred Kunke: 40:55

nothing wrong with the product that they manufacture, but you're right. It's they only make the one, and their marketing is sensational.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 41:02

Yes, you know, beyond pillows, we've How important are sheets that go on top of the beds? And you've also, before you answer that, Spencer, he's met Clint Ober, who does grounding. So how important are grand the mattresses. That's a new technology in grounding sheets. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Fred Kunke: 41:28

It's so new that it's, we don't even have it yet. It's, it will, will be getting these late, late in the fall. But I'm really excited about it, because I'm fairly new to grounding, but I earthing and grounding. But I'm, I'm I'm sold on it myself. I'm a fan. I have a anything that's going to help you sleep. I'm a big fan of right? And I have a, currently, a grounding band that I wear at night. That's, I believe has helped me sleep a lot. So I'm very excited about this, but they're, they're coming out with some grounding mattresses and grounding sheets, and I think that anything, you know, I'm not sure about the science of it all. I do. I do know the idea behind it is, it's designed to help you sleep better, help inflammation, right? It's designed for to kind of neutralize electricity, basically, that runs through our bodies and and in I can tell you that I've been using it, and for me it works. So I can't wait to get these. I'm very excited about it. And sheets are very critical, whether they're grounding sheets or not there, that's another thing that that you you have to investigate, maybe spend a little money on but you definitely don't want to get you want to get something that's there, because there's sheets that are more cooling than others, right? We do a lot with organic bamboo. Bamboo is a, is a, it's a very cooling material, cooler than than cotton. So anything that can help, anything that can aid in a better night's sleep, you know, it adults should get between seven and nine hours a night. I'm telling you that that would be a super goal for anyone. It's not sure we get it. It's

Dr. Spencer Baron: 43:41

actually fascinating, even to me, when I get an eight, like eight or nine. I mean, I actually slept nine hours recently, and I thought to myself, I haven't slept that much since I was a baby. But what it does to your energy and your, your your memory and your and your, you know imagination is it was, it's remarkable the difference if after a couple of good night sleeps, it's so I do believe we underestimate the power of sleep. So what we do? Yeah, good,

Fred Kunke: 44:21

go ahead. I was gonna I can't stop myself. Sorry. No, there's too many things going on in our head for you to get nine hours of sleep every night. It's just it, right? That's really what it is. But the the more you can get, and the better ways that can help you get that are they're critical. You're absolutely right. What it does for for every part of your life. Sleep changes everything It sure

Dr. Spencer Baron: 44:50

does. You know, with that said, you know quality of sleep and so on. You mentioned something earlier about where we were talking about grounding for. And being a new technology of something that could be installed in in covers or sheets or the bed itself. But, you know, I got to tell you, it was very interesting, maybe 1520, years ago. No, actually 20 years ago. I listened to a lecturer who used to take care of the cyclist, Lance Armstrong. Now everybody's got an opinion about Lance Armstrong, but the cyclist, but the lecturer, was talking about a grounding sheet that he would wrap Lance Armstrong in when Lance would sleep during the Tour de France, or that he would wrap around so that technology they would, they would plug it in the wall and wrap them, wrap that, that that it almost looked like foil. And yes, it was something that was going on way back in the day as grounding had had a debut even before that. But now it's becoming more Vogue, and, you know, something more fashionable

Fred Kunke: 46:05

it is, and it's interesting, because it's when I think about this, I think, I don't know how many people that are just coming in looking for a mattress are going to, if they don't know about grounding, go that direction, but I will tell you that there are a lot of people out there that you we don't know about, that do know about earthing and grounding. And I think it's a I think it's going to be a huge boon and bonus to them. I really do. And then that's how things grow, yeah, then the more people that know about it, right? So, yeah, that's that's interesting. We have the company that's coming out with it has a grounding mattress, and then their sheets are made with graphene infused into them. So what happens is, that's the, that's the conductor for for the grounding material. So it we, you know, basically it will neutralize that energy. That's, that's the electricity. Yeah, really cool. Definitely, they feel phenomenal, too. The sheets are great. I

Dr. Spencer Baron: 47:12

was wondering about that. So I'm going to ask you about, you know, some, maybe, thoughts on just how you can, like, transform someone's sleep night into something much more restful. You know, let me give you a segue though, because it was recent that I read something so simple and so fascinating, and that was, you know, the bed is great. The pillows are great. The room temperature is great. But then if you have someone you're sleeping next to, there's the fight over the blanket or the sheets, and one pulls one way, the others pulling the way. And the simple solution was just use two blankets, you know, so they, even though you're in the same big bed, do you have any other suggestions? That's

Fred Kunke: 48:06

really the one that, that's the one that I always think of, because nothing's perfect, right? Nothing is perfect. But like you said, the room has to be, right? They get the electronics out of there. You don't want your, you know, the ambient phones, even though it may be turned off, you don't want it lighting up. You you you want to have the temperature correct in the room. Optimal for sleeping is not warm. It's cooler for sleeping. And then if you do have two people that struggle with the with the sheets and blankets, that's exactly what I recommend, is that they need to be separate, because some people just don't know it, but they grab them and turn over and their partner has nothing, right. So, right?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 48:59

The funny thing is, we've been doing that for years. Whenever we go on vacation, if we have any bed that's smaller than a king, we Michelle will always make up like it's two single beds. We always have been doing double sheets and double blankets for God, for a long time. And that way, you know, the person that's you're sleeping next to is always in their own they're always fine. And I remember when I first started doing I'm like, What are you doing? She's all well, just to keep her from pulling around if the bed's smaller. So, yeah, we've been doing that for a long time, and it's, it's made a huge difference, especially when you travel. So that's how you've stayed married for so long, exactly, that's sleeping in a completely different house with a different room and all that. Just kidding. I love you, honey. So do you still have the before we go on this some other fun stuff. Have you seen the advancements of the coils? We talked a lot about temp. Repeat. But you know different coil systems and different beds. What have they? What have you seen change and and because when patients come to me and they start asking me sleep, I don't even I just am straight to you, because I'm like, I don't know if it's a mat, if it what kind of mattress is a coil bear or a Tempur Pedic bear? I personally don't like tip repeat x, because I'm just a small guy and I just feel like I'm sleeping on a slab. Yet, other people love them. So what are, what are? What are the the boundaries between a faux mattress and a coil mattress?

Fred Kunke: 50:36

So I prefer coil mattress as well, right? But that's but that's just me. So most mattresses, like I mentioned before now all have the individually wrapped coil system that goes throughout the bed. So what that gives you is your own individual support versus your partner's support, right? And that gives you a lot of what they what they call motion separation, because these coils are not connected to these coils. They're all individually put in, into this packet of a mattress. So what I always say is you stronger is better. So the firmer coils, because they make these coils in different diameters, so that some are softer and some are firmer. So firmer is better than deal with the top layers to make it is the comfort that you want. Because, you know, once you have a mattress, that's if it has a soft coil and a little bit of soft top. And you think you love it, if it's if it's not going to give you the support, you can't change that, right? You can't do anything. You can't make it firmer. If you started with a firm coil and maybe a firm top, and you said, this is a little bit too firm, you can always add a pad to the top of that that will actually work for it make a difference. There's no doubt about it. But when it comes to mattresses, because now they vary that, you know, it's not, it's not unusual to find a mattress it's 15 to six, you know, anywhere from 13 to 16 inches thick. I always say less is more, so you don't, you don't need all of that, if you can get the comfort in something that has far less padding, because more padding has an off more opportunity to do what we talked about earlier, right? Canyoning or sagging, but the coils, I like coil mattresses, because I always feel it's, it's tempered steel, and it's pushing back up. It's so it's always wanting to give you as much support as possible.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 52:51

Interesting, you might be bringing back, you know, we might be doing full circle with bedding now, you know, going from coil to foam and then back to coils again. Isn't that typical of history? You know? Well,

Fred Kunke: 53:05

here's a good one. They make hybrids. And hybrids are those coils that we mentioned. And then you can get, for instance, Tempur Pedic makes them as well. You can get temper material on top of that coil system. So a lot of manufacturers make what they call hybrids. And hybrids are they're usually that means a flat surface bed, not a quilted, traditional style bed, but a flat surface bed, whether it has memory foam or latex on top of it, but coils below. So you get really a combination of that.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:43

You know what? You just brought up, something you mentioned some it's a word that you used that I have been become very fascinated by temper. What

Fred Kunke: 53:55

is I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, Tempur, Pedic material. I'm sorry,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:00

but no, no, no, but you said you use that term earlier, is that is, is, did Tempur Pedic come up with a name because they use a material called temper, or approach

Fred Kunke: 54:14

that? No, the material is actually technically called disco elastic. I use it. It's, that's kind of a slang that I'm using because it's Tempur Pedic, and we all shorten it to temper. That's all it means. So it's Tempur Pedic material. It's Tempur Pedic, and that's their own proprietary material that they have that no one else has.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:35

Oh, soft. Okay, very

Fred Kunke: 54:37

cool. So it's, so it's kind of like all memory foam is not created equal, right? There are higher quality and so

Dr. Terry Weyman: 54:45

quality. So I got one last question before we go to our fun thing. You'll hear people talk about these sweetest beds that they go to, like a four seasons, or Ritz, and they have these sweetest beds, and they sleep so good. Is that basically a marketing. Thing that these high end places bought. Do people get sucked into them? Have you ever advised people if they don't know what kind if they go? I slept really good at this hotel and I come home, I have a crappy night's sleep. Do you ever go well, what kind of mattress was that? Or do is it, you know, how that? How do you handle those questions when they walk in your store,

Fred Kunke: 55:20

generally, I asked if they were on vacation and how much alcohol they had. Fair enough, there are, there are some Swedish made. We actually have some mattresses that are manufactured here. But all the components are come from Europe. Some come from Sweden, Germany, just, just depending on the components that are in there. I really can't answer that. I know that there are some manufacturers. There's one by that goes by the name of hestons, and they make extremely expensive mattresses, and they, and really, I'm sure, they're phenomenally made and unbelievable mattresses, but the idea is, they're, they're designed for, they're so expensive, they're designed to go down general, generally, you know, from generation to generation, since that word so easy for me to say so. But honestly, I kind of don't subscribe to that. I think that mattresses should be changed periodically, at mint, at the longest, every 10 years. That's that, you know, just kind of like you.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:46

Dr, Terry, very good. Hey, yeah, don't throw me into the bus. Yeah, I went 25 years.

Fred Kunke: 56:52

You went. We've known each other for 35 years, and I'm trying to think of how many mattresses you've gotten to that. Do everybody else do the math? So no, I because I think once again, our bodies change, yeah? So we might not. We might need something different, yeah. So there's, there can be overkill as well.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:17

Fred, we're, we're going to engage in one of our favorite parts of our programming, and that is called the rapid fire questions. As long as you don't have to say the word generation, I think you'll do really well.

Fred Kunke: 57:32

Generational. Generation. Okay, I'm done.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:38

Here we go. They usually require a very brief answer, but we end up getting caught up in this conversation. But if you're ready for question number one, so am i You ready? Fred,

Fred Kunke: 57:51

certainly,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:52

you've seen a few couples, parents, kids and grandparents walk through your doors over the decades. What? What part of that, that whole journey, you know, brings you the most joy,

Fred Kunke: 58:07

but honestly, the most joys comes from people that have been in prior honestly, that that have, we have customers that are so loyal. It's the it's the best feeling ever when they come in and I can't recognize them, and they say, Fred, we're back for another mattress.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:24

Nice, of course, of course. Well, question number two, what gets you what, pretty much gets you out of bed in the morning and excited? You know, beyond work, beyond work, is there something that's like, unrelated to sleep that you are very passionate about

Fred Kunke: 58:42

other than coffee. You mean, get me out of bed in the

Unknown: 58:45

morning. There's your answer, right? Yeah,

Fred Kunke: 58:49

that's the, that's the short one. But no, I I'm a golfer, and I'm an avid golfer, so that's, that's one thing that gets me out of bed at any

Dr. Spencer Baron: 59:02

hour. So golf and low back pain are synonymous. So you better have the best possible bed out there, absolutely

Fred Kunke: 59:13

and the best possible chiropractor

Unknown: 59:15

out there. Yeah, there you go.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 59:19

A brief break with Dr Terry, all right. Question number three, what? What is the funny I couldn't wait to answer ask you this question the funniest and most unexpected question a customer has ever asked you about sleep or beds, the

Fred Kunke: 59:42

only one that I can think of up the top of my head. I can't even say, to be perfectly honest with you, no, because, yeah, can't do it that was rated. It would not work. It just doesn't work. But, but, yeah, we. You, I've had that a couple of times, but honestly, we have people that fall asleep in the store. Oh

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:09

yes, yes, wow, did they buy the bed.

Fred Kunke: 1:00:16

They buy the bed. Usually, yeah,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:18

oh, that's fantastic. I didn't even think about that. It is true, they are obviously sleep deprived, and that bed worked

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:00:27

and but the funny thing is, we all thought of the same question that Fred couldn't answer. We know that people had to ask those questions.

Unknown: 1:00:37

Oh yeah, yeah.

Fred Kunke: 1:00:39

The simple answer to that question, though, is, yeah, springs are better than fall for that.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:00:46

That was a great answer there.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:51

Fred, if people still have no clue as to what we're talking

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:00:57

about, I will. That's fine. That's

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:59

okay. I know that patients come in and ask that question, can I still have sex? Yeah, you know, my back hurts. Is there a different position, you know, things like that? Yeah, we'll refer to them to a spring mattress. Very good. Thank you for what's question

Unknown: 1:01:14

number four, what's one piece of business

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:16

advice you got when you were first started, when you first started, that you continue to abide by today.

Fred Kunke: 1:01:23

So the main thing for me was, you, in my business, you just treat your customer as like their gold, like they're made of gold, and like their family, that's all that matters. I had somebody tell me once, if I had to take the advice was, if you have to take it and put it in your parking lot and burn it, you make the customer happy. And that's the thing that I go by. That's my goal. Is to is to make the customer we're here to make them happy, not unhappy. So that's,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:02

that's the goal. It's good. And you can apply that to any business you can. Yeah, that's great. Thanks.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:02:08

Since he pumped me up, I will tell you in 35 years, referring to him, I've not gotten one complaint, and I can't, I can't say that by any other company or any other relationship I've had never in that one complaint. So kudos to you, Fred. You know, I gotta

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:26

tell you, you get a feel for somebody before you got on this the program, Terry, I was talking to Fred, and I automatically, I go, Man, this guy, you just feel you just feel good talking to him. Yeah, you do. Thanks for Thank you. I still have one more Thank you. You're not getting away with the last question,

Fred Kunke: 1:02:46

that's okay,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:02:48

which I have a funny feeling, I want to know the answer, but question number five is, what do you want to be remembered for?

Fred Kunke: 1:02:58

Well, really, it's not it's not work, it's family, yeah, yeah, that's that's what matters to me. I'm happy to have been here and helped and served and anything that I can do, but honestly, it's just family

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:15

that's great. Well, Fred, thank you. This was a very informative and endearing show. So I appreciate you for sharing and imparting your knowledge.

Fred Kunke: 1:03:27

Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:03:33

Thank you for listening to today's episode of The Kraken backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Kraken backs podcast, catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.