Navy SEAL Turned Hospital CEO: Jeff Mengenhausen Exposes Healthcare’s Failures

What do a struggling student, a decorated Navy SEAL, and a hospital CEO all have in common? The answer: Jeff Mengenhausen.

In this explosive episode of the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we sit down with the only Navy SEAL in the country running a hospital—a man who’s rewriting the rules of leadership, resilience, and what healthcare should really be.

Jeff’s story is anything but ordinary. Once labeled a “poor student,” he went on to earn Navy SEAL honors, a Purple Heart, and combat commendations. Today, he’s transforming Montrose Regional Health into one of the most respected community hospitals in the nation. But his mission doesn’t stop there—Jeff is exposing the cracks in America’s hospital culture and challenging the grip Big Pharma and profit-driven systems have on patient care.

Inside this episode, we ask:

• Why isn’t the Navy SEAL ethos of “embrace the suck” translating into healthcare leadership?
• What behind-the-scenes SEAL lessons still drive Jeff’s decisions as a hospital CEO?
• Why are so many hospitals failing their patients—and how is Montrose setting a new standard?
• Has Big Pharma hijacked the direction of care in America?
• And after trillions spent on cancer and chronic disease, why aren’t outcomes improving?

This conversation isn’t just about medicine. It’s about survival, clarity under pressure, and the courage to flip a broken system on its head.

Learn more about Jeff Mengenhausen and Montrose Regional Health:

• Montrose Regional Health

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Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Terry Weyman: 0:00

All right. Well, I'm so excited about this, this show today, especially after a couple of phone calls from different people. But this is this shows can relate to so many people. We have on a show a man who started out as a struggling student, wasn't very good in school, then he became a Navy Seal, which is like my major hero status, then he's a CEO of a hospital. And if you think about that transition for a moment when people are struggling and go, I can't even get out of school, how can I change the world? Well, here's a man that we're going to talk to that is doing that. And not only has he changed the world, he's the only navy seal that's ever become a CEO of a hospital and with healthcare the way it is today, and people are afraid to go to the hospital, because sometimes people think if they go to the hospital, they're never going to come out. They're supposed to go to the hospital, be healthy, not not get sicker and die. So we have a leader who's led his whole life on the show, and I can't be more excited. Welcome to show Jeff. Megan helsin, thank you.

Unknown: 1:06

You said that pretty good. Thank

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:08

you. Yeah, it's better than what he was telling me earlier. So you went from being a poor student a label that might be. Some people define that for their life. They think they're a failure. They think they can't learn anything, they can't study thing. And then he became a seal, which is the epitome of leadership. Can you talk to us about this journey before we even even get to the hospital side?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 1:33

Oh yeah. I mean, it was, it was the late 90s, right? And so I was the typical, you know jock in high school, I played baseball, football, wrestling, and then track, and that's just what I live for, very competitive, very aggressive. And yes, I could have went and wrestled, probably even division one, but I wanted something different. I grew up in a huge metropolitan area called Howard, South Dakota, town of 1000 I grew up on a farm, and I'm like, You know what, I want to, I want to try something different. So I looked up, you know, hardest military training in the world, right when the internet, you know, late 90s kind of coming out, and it had Green Berets and had Navy SEALs, and it was right when Charlie Sheen actually had that Navy SEAL movie. I'm like, Oh, so cool. And, you know, I've been, I've been to the ocean once in that part of my life. And, you know, I live, and so I'm like, yeah, why not? I could be, I could swim, okay, you know, sure, and I'm going to try to be a Navy SEAL. And joined right after high school and jumped right into it and went to boot camp, did that whole thing, and then I went to a school, which is I was intelligence specialist, a school was kind of your training in the regular Navy. And I was in damn neck Virginia Beach, Virginia damn neck base. We're actually SEAL Team Six is, and that's where 911 happened for me, is when I was in school at that, that time, and that's actually where I learned how to swim from some good buddies of mine that were surfers from California and everybody working out. And then from transitioning from there, I went into buds right after that. So it was kind of that, that transition. But I, you know, when I look at military and I talk to people just about just life coaching or just being in high school, like, Man, I barely graduated, and I feel that the military and the SEAL teams were kind of that control, alt delete button, that reset button for me to give me direction and a purpose. I wouldn't have done great in college, I think going right after high school, but that is kind of my journey of just getting to buds.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 3:45

You know, I my favorite shirt I wear, and I wear it a lot. I actually got it from a event down in Dallas, but it's a shirt says, embraces, suck. And I used to wear it on the show, until Spencer's girlfriend Karen said, you know, the only thing is showing up on camera. Said, suck. And I went, Okay, I better take that shirt off, because the way I was sitting, it just it, just it was not working the way I thought it was. But that's like, my favorite shirts, and that's the name. And I find out I should have known this, but I find that that's kind of the the ethos of the Navy SEALs. I could, we could easily talk seals for an hour, but I kind of want to get into healthcare. And how does this embrace the psych leadership, and which is a zero tolerance to failure, I think every businessman needs to have that ethos, because if you think failure is an option, you will fail. And how did you take that ethos and transform across the country leadership in healthcare and changing hospitals? Can we just kind of start that, that dialog?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 4:53

No, I think you know, when I got out of the SEAL teams, I went and worked for defense contracting company, finished my degrees, and then everybody you know. The question is like, how did you get into healthcare in the first place? And there's a federally qualified community health center called Horizon healthcare, which the CEO for 38 years. Grew up from two clinics to now 28 he retired a couple years ago. That man's name is John mengenhausen. It was my father, and so I worked, I cut my teeth in healthcare, working for my old man as the chief operating officer for Horizon healthcare. But when you move your wife, who's originally from Georgia and then hanging out at the beach at Virginia Beach, Virginia, to a town of 1000 where it snows and it's very cold, it's kind of a culture shock. And so we never be stuck. And so we, I kind of jumped into healthcare, and what I'm finding is is just the the bringing the business side and the kind of the can do attitude, and I've been kind of starting to present on it is, is just bringing that attitude in that atmosphere of fun and just Yes. And you look at the steel ethos, never fail. You always push forward, right? If you get knocked down, you get up and you go faster. And I think it's that just can do attitude and bringing like, Nope, we're going to do this. And you just, it's a 20 mile march, really. That's, that's all it is. In healthcare, you have to keep moving forward every day, one step, one step. It's not one great big leadership change or one great big thing. It's all these small, incremental things, keep moving forward for that vision, and it's just doing it day after day and staying consistent with that never fail, because you're in healthcare right now, you're getting beat down, right? It was covid Now it's the big, beautiful bill or whatever it is, right all the or it's the insurance companies or the labor, whatever it is, just adapt and change and keep moving forward. And that's what's been driving my organization, the hospital, to continue to strive

Dr. Spencer Baron: 6:59

that's fantastic. Do you miss any do you miss being with the that camaraderie and the seal, you know, with the seals that? Do you miss that?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 7:09

I do. I mean, it's when I got out, and you know, if you were to stay, and unfortunately, if you know about SEAL teams, it's about an 89% divorce rate if you stay in for 20 years. And it is, it is so true and and I got out, and, yes, I did a lot of things, but I definitely miss that, that camaraderie, that that adrenaline, that competition and trying to is a transition, moving from that being kind of always going and always moving and always, you know, overseas or training, to now sitting at a desk, and wow, it was, I still remember it was a huge transition for me.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 7:53

So Jeff, with that said, you know, what I'm curious about is that transition, and if there was a a moment of crisis during, during your your your tenure in the seals, if there was like a defining moment of purpose or something that that that you still use when you are, you know, providing leadership in a hospital, or making change, which is pretty challenging at this time. You know, do you have any of those moments that you use to, you know, bring back, empower you, or recall or use as a template?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 8:35

Yeah, I think, you know, I've seen it we I think there's, there's kind of two styles in the SEAL teams, there's the just wrong. I'm in your face. Aggressive team guy. And I have, you know, my, one of my best friends, he, he actually got shot in the tricep. And I saw him after it happened. He's like, I think it's stronger now. Oh, my God, just keep moving forward and, and I take more, I guess, professional approach, right and, and I've seen right, the aggression and just like, Whoa, this is how it's going to be done, in that just intensity moving forward and, and then I've seen it, where we were working with like another base, and, you know, this team guy would raise his voice, and then the other guy would raise his voice, and it just became this shouting match. I'm like, there's nothing being accomplished right now, and and definitely moving from the SEAL teams and having those crucial conversations, right? I'm more worried about getting punched in the face by another guy versus here in healthcare have to be I talk about feelings and different things, so I've had to adapt. But it's how can you move leadership without having to be that raw? This is the way we go. Or how can you empower people to actually do the. Right thing, and same thing as SEAL teams, we all all went through buds. We're all rock stars and and athletes and all this and that. How can you empower them to move the entire team forward? I don't need to micromanage you, because I trust you and you're good at what you do, and so I've kind of taken that and infused it into my my leadership. And man, it's after four years of being here, I'm not the one driving the growth. I'm not the one being innovative. I'm actually having to pull the reins on everybody like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down everybody here. Let's be strategic on it. And that's, that's what's beautiful.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 10:33

Hey, Jeff, I want to just interject some you said something, and only because of what just recently happened. I want to kind of bring some, some today stuff into this conversation. And the one thing I respected about Charlie Kirk, who was just assassinated, was you never heard him yell when he went up against opposition. And and here's a guy that would go against anybody. You didn't whether you, whether you, I've heard so many people go I didn't believe 80% of the stuff he said, but I respected him for how we said it. And is that something that you've learned in your transition from yelling and doing that to now you're talking at a different level? I mean, can we, can we try and blend these two current events to kind of how your life is and what lessons we can learn?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 11:24

Yeah, I think if you look at Charlie Kirk, right, and he just pure intensity. There's one video where this older gentleman wanted to fight him, didn't even want to talk it out, right? He's like, let's, let's duke it out right now. And he's like, why, right? And people, when they start to feel that they they're losing an argument, or their best thing is they're they revert to violence. I still remember I was in, I was not here, as in a kind of a bigger system. And I first got there, and I had this very large physician, and he was six, five or something, and he had this tendency of being loud and just kind of intimidating by his size. And he'd start to kind of, you know, you'd start looking over and looking down on you and kind of doing that. And I remember he was upset when I first moved there, and I was sitting in a chair talking to a manager, and just kind of real relaxes. And he is just hot, and he's saying something, just breathing fire and, like, leaning over me. I'm like, You, I don't think you're hearing me. I'm like, no, no, I hear you, right? I I hear him. No, we'll get it fixed. Yeah. And it, it actually drove him crazy because he couldn't work me up. But I think it's, you know, you revert back to the SEAL team. Like, really, dude, like you're gonna, you want to, it's okay, you know you want to fight me or like, this is not stressful. I'm not getting shot at it's a lower stress level for me. And it's, and it's, I think it's a self confidence thing. It's like, I don't need to engage in your level. How can I bring you down and actually have an engaging conversation? I think that's where Charlie Kirk was so brilliant, is that he could just stay here the whole time you speak louder, he's going to speak softer and slower to bring you back down. Like, hey, let's keep talking. You're up here. We're not going to accomplish anything.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 13:11

You know, I, first of all, I'm so glad you brought that up, because this is kind of a learning moment or experience for those who are listening and or watching this program, and that is, there's a physiological effect that goes on that I commend you for. There's there's a primitive level of thinking, and then there's an executive level of thinking, and if you can tap into the executive level of thinking, then you don't have to resort to violence and wanting to punch somebody out. And, goodness knows, I've felt that primitive level before, but when you sit back and you and you think it out, and resort to a more an ability to create a dialog of inspiration or influence, or, you know, to help someone calm down because they want to fight you. So how do you, you know, and I always mentioned something about, you know, a white belt in martial arts will want to go around kicking, you know it, whereas if you're a 10th degree black belt, you are looking at Harmony, and you know that you could, you know, kill the guy, which is probably Jeff, probably what you were thinking. You could probably choke him out. But what good is it, you know, anyway, so that, that I think, would be a real good defining moment for you is you've experienced the trauma and the drama, and you know, you've, you've been there. So, you know, running a hospital is, is less trauma and drama?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 14:47

Yeah, I think, you know, in today's, right? We're always getting attacked. We're all in health care. And I have people like, how do you I get the question, how do you always say positive, right? And I tell people, as you get up higher and higher. And leadership. I mean, you look at like President Trump or Biden or Obama, whoever. I don't care, not politics, but when they Well, they said they instead of them. Why did he use the word they? You know, it just you're over analyzed. And when you get up into leadership, when I walk out my door, out of my office, I'm the optimist. Because if I walked around and like, oh, the budget, all the legislative changes, all the peers aren't paying us. I got people, you know, yelling at me like, you're going to bring everybody else down. You are the light that is actually pushing everybody forward. Yes, in your head you're screaming like, oh my gosh, this is stressful. But I've noticed is you have to be that, role model and lead from the front and continuing to push forward.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 15:46

So I'm going to get down and dirty with this thought process, because, you know, I'm hoping that you are not only the Savior, but an example to to all other hospital administrators and those who are trying to make a difference, and especially this changing environment. You know, hospitals were once a place that, you know, people would be they go to get saved. And yet, you know, at this in this era, hospitals are seem to be a place where people get sicker. There's unnecessary tests done, doctors are spending less time with you. It's getting more costly, and they go and people end up going in debt. So could you please tell us how you plan on flipping the script on this culture?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 16:37

Yeah, I think when you look at how do you because everybody's remembering covid, it's all these lingering stuff, and then infection. And you know, our vision here at Montrose Regional Health is there's a there's a star rating. So it'll be a five star in CMS government, you know, is the top of the top one star being low. It's very simple. Well, we're a four star. How do we get to be a five star? And I think by January, we will be, and then maintaining it? Well, leap frog A and then looking at we're in the top community hospitals, top 100 community hospitals in the country. Okay, great. How do we break in the top 20? Right? It's not the focus on the revenue. It's actually the focus on the quality and safety of the patients, because if you and the patient experience, because if you provide fantastic quality care, and what you do as a small hospital or as a university or mayo, right, if you provide great quality and they're safe and they have a great patient experience, for someone like us, kind of a smaller hospital, midsize hospital, I can compete with the Mayos, the Cleveland clinics, the big boys, you know, Kaiser and UC and the universities, because I'm taking care of my community. And they trust me. They trust us, that they come here and that they're receiving high quality care, and they're safe, and they come to us in the time of their desperate need. And how do you help them? Right? It's not and it starts at the beginning. You imagine your mom, right, coming into our hospital, and you save their life and the eating, and they go to the cath lab, and you do the cardiac procedure, and then they hit ICU, and then they hit med surge, and they had the best food, because we're ranked 99th in percentile. You can get, you know, salmon with some shrimp in the middle, with crab on top. Here at the hospital, because the patient experience right? And they go, and then all of a sudden, we bill them wrong, and then they're calling us, and we're kind of a little rude to them, Hey, you just need to pay your bill, and they're fighting with their insurance company. How do you think that patient experience went everybody? So I switched to here, and it's kind of taking back to the SEAL Team buds, that everybody went through buds together, no matter if you're an officer or enlisted, everybody in this organization is a caregiver. I'm a caregiver, physicians or caregivers, nurses. But EVs, what about housekeeping when they're nobody, nobody's in the room with them, when they're in there with the patient? What about the biller? The collector? Right? They know they have to pay the bill. What? How does that experience? And how can you help them through it? It doesn't just stop with the care. It stops with everything. And then once you build that trust in your community, man, you'll start. I'm pulling patients from other communities. They don't even live here, just because of the reputation of what we have, and that's how I'm fighting against it. Is actually putting my mouth where it is is just saying, this is where we're moving.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 19:24

What is the grading criteria when a hospital is looked at by these independent surveyors? I mean, what is that they're

Jeff Mengenhausen: 19:33

looking for? So I mean, it goes on cleanliness of the hospital, your infection rates, your patient experience, scores your market share really, because if you have really strong market share within your community, well then they trust you. If you have in the out migration, if I have people driving an hour to receive health care, that's an issue. How do I fix that issue? Right? It's all about access as well. So if you get the big C. Heard it, you know that you might have cancer from your primary care physician. And you call our Cancer Institute, and they tell you like, you know, six to eight weeks, I think we can have you see, you know, Dr Smith, what do you think? Like, Oh, hell no. Like, screw that. I will drive an hour. I'll drive five hours to Denver to go figure out what's going on. You can call our cancer center right now, one to three days will get you ready, right? And so taking all those measures that they have and making sure we're solid, and that's how they score all of us. How would you

Dr. Spencer Baron: 20:33

as a popular as a hospital has become more popular? How would you be able to expedite somebody's ability to be seen, a patient's ability to be seen and diagnosed or put at ease with what's going on when all the other ones you have to wait so long?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 20:50

Yeah, it's the first thing I implemented was, we're in the generation now, right? Everybody has information on their fingertips, like, I want to know this. Google, what's this? Ai, what's this, right? So if they have to wait any longer than two weeks, and so each clinic that I have third, next available, new patient has to be within 10 days. And so that's and that's how we're driving growth. I have clinics. Pretty much all my clinics are growing 1015, 20% year over year because of access. Now I do have some other clinics that are struggling, but we, on an average, we're adding 30 plus providers every year. Some you know, retirements are over, but it's just continuing to add more. And that's actually the problem I'm having, is having clinic space to sustain that growth. But now what's happening is I have four or five surrounding communities with their own hospitals, saying, like, you know, I'm going to drive down to Montrose because they got a new GI program, or they got a really good spine guy I heard about, I'm going to go get a second opinion from them. And so now we're actually people coming to us for that quality of care, and that's really driving that growth. And it's and it's not just what the out migration, it's actually the people sitting on their couch not getting care. We opened our GI program. Within the first three months, we had 700 new patients. Within four months, we had 1000 where are these people coming from? Just like scopes, it's not the people that we're seeing. Oh, we lost 500 to Grand Junction, which is an hour away. It's people sitting on the sofa not getting their care, like I saw, I saw 20 patients at Walmart yesterday that need it and that we need to provide for them because they don't want to drive to the urban settings, especially in the rural market.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 22:39

Hey, Jeff, real quick. I'm sorry, Terry, I wanted to ask like, you know, to be able to see that those kind of numbers and have, well, that many patients. How are you finding new doctors, as far as experience, or, you know, you're obviously having turnover with doctors or retiring and then others coming in. Are you noticing a difference in in behavior, character, in new doctors versus old ones? Maybe 100%

Jeff Mengenhausen: 23:10

I mean, yeah, there's, there's difference right between the older seasoned generation versus the new ones. I think the new physicians and people coming out more work life balance. It's trying to figure that out. Yeah, the what we've been successful at, and that the culture that we have built is we're not a system. We're an independent hospital. It's not some guy in Denver or salt lake or Phoenix telling us how to run health care in our community. It's me and I think letting them be successful and not you always hear heavy handed of administration coming in, and this is how many patients you have to see that's not us. And what's happening is that these level one and level two trauma centers, out of these big urban centers, these hospitals, are just killing these doctors. And I stood when I was hiring this gi guy, he called me, and I was like, 536 o'clock at night, and he's walking around the hospital in Denver, and he's just then just, he's like, they don't care what they think. They keep adding patients. I've already got this many. I can't do that. And he's just fuming. I'm like, Listen to yourself. Come out here. Let us be the solution. And then he gets out here, and a month after he was here, he's like, Oh my gosh, and they can just feel the weight float off their shoulders, like, this is what it should be. And because of that, I'm getting more and more physicians from these urban centers. One I live in a very beautiful area, but it's, it's actually the culture within the hospital that is attracting them. And I get the question, Well, Jeff, how long are you gonna be here? Because it does, does change. Yeah. And I grabbed probably two, one definitely of the probably best gi guy in in the country, did the most ercps in the country. Be the last two years from Colorado Springs, and he's here in Montrose, and we're pulling people from other states, sending patients here.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 25:11

You know, I gotta talk about that experience, because the way I Found You was Maddie Blanchard, and I have to give him a shout out. And here's a friend. Sorry, that was a guest. Now, Maddie, I'm in your top three friend groups, and he said I was top five, but the fact I'm shouting them out, I'm going top three. But he's been paralyzed twice. And so here's a man who's been to all kinds of doctors, all kinds of hospitals. He'd been all over the world having issues, and he calls me up. He's like, Dude, this is the best experience I have ever had. And here's a man who lives in southern Utah talking about Montrose Regional Health Center in Colorado, saying it's the best experience he's ever had. So with that being said, what are you doing differently the exposes of failure, the largest systems, and why aren't other hospitals following your model?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 26:09

I think what we're doing different is really focusing on the patients, right? Our mission is treat you like family, and that truly is, you're not just a number here. We're an urban center. They're seeing so many it's just like, Alright, your patient, 432 today. Let's get you seen and get you out, you know? And because we're smaller and that we have a very, very specific focus on the experience and the quality, right? And the physicians are 100% behind it. My entire emergency room department is all board certified physicians, and they're training out of like, Detroit, you know, Salt Lake, Denver, Atlanta. These people moved here because of where we're at, but I'm getting the best of the best, and they're here because of the culture and the relationship. And what I love their motto, which I love is like, Jeff, our job is to make your life easier as the CEO and not have to deal with anything or deal with any physician issues whatsoever, because you'll pay a little extra for that when it comes contract him. I'm like, Damn right. I will, but it's just that we're all moving in the same direction. It's all transparent. Everybody knows where we're going our vision, which we just changed a year ago, and I'm so pumped, because my competitive spirit has rubbed off on everybody. And they came up with it, and they came up. Our vision is to be the best hospital system in the state of Colorado. And you can walk around the entire hospital and ask any caregiver, ask any provider, and they will tell you, Oh, yeah, we're going to be the best, right? You think of the NFL teams they just started, you think the coaches walked in there say, we're going to be the oh, we're going to make playoffs this year. Hell no, they're, they're talking about this year's our year. We're going to go to the Super Bowl, right? How is that any different for us in the business world, that, no, we're going to be the best in what we do by far. And this is the metric we're going to go and we're going to continue to strive for that.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 28:02

So I have a follow up with that, because Spencer and I will both know when you have a small office, you can control stuff. And the stuff we see, PT clinics, Chiropractic Clinics, medical clinics, when they do get really good, and people come from all over and they explode, and they get bigger and bigger, and they buy a bigger place, but also now they become a mill, and their quality just goes through in the shit. So what happens if you guys do become a Mayo Clinic, size a UCLA, size a huge size? How do you control what is making you great now at the next level,

Jeff Mengenhausen: 28:35

it's all about building the foundation and when. And I can't be there, right? I can. I can influence, like my senior leadership team, maybe a few directors. But really what's getting it all is you have to start at the very top and work all the way down from your directors to your managers to your supervisors to your leads. We've put on six different leadership trainings, which Matt was one of our guest speakers, just hearing like stuff I already know. But just talk about leadership rounding, talk about that, and you have to stay consistent and keep moving, because it takes three to five years to truly change culture. I'm four years into it, and I'm already seeing it. I'm like, oh, there's still some tweaks that we can even get better, and you can't lose sight of it. That's who we are, and you can't let growth change that. And so that's what we're so focused on, is that, because we're growing so fast, how can we slow it down? Take a breath not lose the vision or the quality that we're focused on. And as you look at at the big systems, it does start at the top and and then it's empowering your other presidents of hospitals, if you have multiple hospitals, right? Do they believe into the culture? Do they have what it takes? Right? You mayo? Everybody's like, oh, Mayo is the greatest. You look at Mayo, and they're, they're fantastic. Mayo is mayo in Rochester, you know, I was in southern Minnesota, compete. Against may on the rural side, but they struggle too. Is because you can't take the mayo Rochester Kool Aid and feed it to all your rural hospitals that have 25 3000 people in the population. Have to adapt and change and keep everybody on moving at the same pace.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 30:18

Boy, that got me fired up about having that mantra of being the best, you know, I forget how effective that is and how contagious that excitement can be. So I commend you on that. So when I Jeff, I want to ask you, you know, Big Pharma has, has, obviously, you know, developed a sinister presence in this country and how it influences doctors to, you know, maybe prescribe when it's unnecessary. That's a whole nother interview. But how do you feel that the pharmaceutical industry is is with the hospital? Do they have a control? Do they have a a a pro presence that changes some of the doctors that work with you a different perspective than what you would like. Are they, you know, shifting a sense of, are they a challenge to the way you run things?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 31:21

Big Pharma, not necessarily like we have tight controls. I'm reps coming in and like buying lunch and doing all that crazy, and that's pretty much, I would say, throughout the industry, healthcare industry, they have pretty tight controls on that. Where I'm seeing big pharma starting to play huge roles, is legislation, and it's not, yes, they're always going after federal but now they're they're okay, let's start at state level, like I just went through a huge fight with our state legislation, and it's a 340 B drug program where rural hospitals, federally qualified community hospitals, critical access hospitals, because you have a large amount of Medicaid, we can buy, we can buy pharmacy drugs at the VA rate. So the US government is able to negotiate, because they have the biggest health system, the VA, these great rates. So then they they can pass that on to us, so we get a low rate, which then we can make a little money. That patient actually saves money, and then the pharmacy actually makes a little money. So it's a three way win. And so why Big Pharma is constantly on attack with that? Because they want more than win, but yet, I'm sitting here struggling as other rural community hospitals or whoever, with, you know, razor thin margin, but yet they're billions of dollars of profit. You could say the exact same thing with the insurance companies right now, billions of dollars worth of profit. Yet I can't get paid on time. And if I get too much paid, I'm noticing, as we're growing, as we're on this level, like, Oh, this is how much you get every month. But I'm like, Yeah, you still owe me $4 million I'm having to try to, like, when you gonna pay that to me? Oh, we'll get it to you.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 33:04

So you deal with that too. I thought it was just us doctors, you know. But you know, with that, said Jeff, you know, I want to, I'm curious of how it works when, like, with maybe implants, or, you know, equipment, or things like that, that not just big pharma and their medications, but, you know, you know, other companies that are looking to pivot themselves in your hospital, do they talk to you, or do they talk to the doctors? How does that whole thing?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 33:40

Oh, they're very sneaky, very sneaky, yeah, and they will go talk to the doctor, right? And what they're hat, what they're doing now is they're starting, they're grabbing medical schools. So everybody wants a robot, right? All my surgeons want this robot and that robot. And we've got like, five different robots. Well, we, I want this robot by this brand, by this company. Oh, why? Oh, because that's the robot I use when I went through my fellowship over here. Well, this surgeon, this other spine surgeon trained over here, and they use that vendor. You guys got to figure it out on which one we're getting. But they, what they've done is they've started now in these residencies, in these fellowships, getting it in there and getting them expecting to use it. I can't even do surgery without a robot anymore, and I have more of the season guys like I didn't even have a robot when I went through training. Why can't you do it this way? Because they become reliant on it, which then forces the hospitals and even rural hospitals trying to get a general surgeon that isn't trained on the robot. Now, why demand a robot? Well, that's hugely expensive, and there's not enough volume to get a robot. So yes, we're dealing with with the vendors, as well as technology continues to and it's great quality care, right? And we're seeing improvements and quality outcomes and less. Invasive, but it's, it's, it's all these pressures, right? And that's what I'm talking as a CEO. Well, I got a big pharma, got insurance companies now I got, you know, robot vendors, got all these people, let alone just trying to take care

Dr. Terry Weyman: 35:14

of the patient. You know, I want to inject in some and I want to ask something based off of that, we had a guest on who had stage four cancer, and they wanted to do typical chemo and radiation and and share her responses. They spent trillions of dollars on this research for cancer and chronic diseases, yet they haven't dramatically shifted in the treatments over the years with all this money poured in. And she wanted to go a different path. She wanted to go a more holistic path, and she ended up spending $87,000 of her own money, and she cured. She's totally cancer free. And when she looked back at the numbers, they would pay for the old care, or the radiation, chemo,$270,000 which had been approved by insurance, but they wouldn't be approved for this holistic care. Do you ever see doctors or hospitals, ever looking at alternative care based off of research and scientific is political driven? What is holding back this blend of Western, Eastern, other thought processes? What do you think is holding it back when you go to a hospital?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 36:24

I do see more physicians kind of taking that I do see, you know, hear from them, journal articles, peer reviewed articles, and how this works, that I do, starting to see a blend. But insurance companies don't pay for that, right? That's, that's, that's the big hindrance is like, well, I can't afford that. Well, you can take this chemo drug that we've been using for 15 years, and that's been approved through Medicare, you know, CMS, and through the insurance company. And I think that's still the biggest we get more denials now. I mean, it's we, they want, oh, denials and to regulate the hospitals, to drive down hospital costs. Well, I just have to hire, I think, 12 different people to fight the denials, to get paid. What we do, I mean, it's and then now what you what we're also seeing is AI. Is that AI is scrubbing these claims from physicians, and if it doesn't include this one word or this one phrase, boom, tonight. And then we're going to hire, then we're going to add AI to, like, redo it and send it back. So AI is going to have a fight with AI, and then you have and it gets denied two times, and you got to call, and that's, you know, that's taken three, four months on top of the normal process. So how you know you're you're providing healthcare is the only industry. You provide a service here, and hope you get paid six months from now, 90 you know, three to six months later,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 37:51

painful, painful. So, okay, I'm going to piggyback on that thought. Have you ever imagined maybe having a department that was more holistic. I know there's one hospital that actually developed, you know, I'm in, I'm in Florida, South Florida, and I know that they created a more a small department that was run by a doctor that had a little more of a perspective on alternative or complementary medicine, and it was a cash based system because, and that works. Any thoughts on that?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 38:31

Yeah, we've, we've seen that. I have a couple physicians here. They're staying independent. They're independent. They have their own practice, but supported by us. And I know I'm talking to one right now that is interested in adding another, and we help with recruitment and fees for them to be independent. Not everybody has to be employed by the hospital as physicians and but I definitely see a huge place in it as it evolves. And you can see JFK, right? He's trying to push all the healthiness, get rid of all the dyes, get rid of all that, that craziness. Somehow I can go to Europe and eat pasta and bread and not gain a pound, and then here I can't even look at bread and like, oh, in fact,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 39:13

yep. No kidding. You know, actually, I forgot about this. But this is about 25 to 30 years ago. I don't even recall how I started connecting with a medical doctor. Again, I'm in South Florida, very open minded. He was an administrator of a hospital in California back, you know, obviously, 30 or so years ago, he's now an admit. He was not, he was then an administrator at a hospital here, and was very open to having a chiropractic department. The challenge was, and he told me, he goes, I'm, I'm all for it. You're, you're the guy. And he had me speak with the. Board of Medicine, the, you know, for the hospital, and that, you know, I started out by saying, Look, this was, again, you know, 25 or so years ago. I said, Look, we don't have horns. I don't have a tail. I, you know, I, you know, I'm trained as a chiropractor, and I'm trained to work together so, and they, we ended up having a department in a hospital, and then that hospital was an example for another so it started to grow again. You know, it's covered by insurance, but it also can be, it's a small ticket item. It could be a cash based approach. I'm just throwing some ideas out at you, because those are, those are some things that the public would go, Oh, wow. This hospital is very different from, you know, and it worked out cool. But I will tell you, for a chiropractor that was in a private practice, it's a different place to be in a hospital, you know, it's you got some very sick people there that you know, that you could lend a hand and help out. I will say that the the doctors and the nurses were very into the chiropractic perspective. It was pretty cool.

Jeff Mengenhausen: 41:09

See, no, I'd agree, and I think it's just more of that, right? Everybody's wanting to do less or take control of your own health care. Yeah, right. And we're actually, you know, we have, we have very good spine surgeons, very kind of non invasive, minimal, invasive stuff. And we'll get second opinions. Like, Well, you haven't even tried, have you tried Pete physical therapy? Like, No, you haven't even failed physical therapy. Like, let's, we should probably start there, you know, let's build some muscle around that, see how you feel. And then, you know, maybe an injection. And then, like, the last resort is fine, or, you know, chiropractic, even chiropractic adjustments with physical therapy. And you know, that's it's actually pulling people here, versus, like, nope, let's just cut and, you know, move on.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 41:57

Any thoughts about preventative medicine, preventative care versus, you know, obviously, reactive care, which this country is very much involved in. You know, they wait till they have pain or illness or injury. Any thoughts on preventative

Jeff Mengenhausen: 42:14

care? Yeah, I think through like community health centers, who are kind of the safety net for all across the country, which is bipartisan, are that safety net, and they actually have really good metrics of, you know, when was your colonoscopy, when was your female exam, when was, you know, diabetes and all this, and moving to that preventative and and really looking at getting people in sooner, like we just implemented cardiac CTA, so it's a CT scan with contrast for your heart. And what it's actually done, and not thinking of it is, is actually decreased our Cath Lab volume in the cardiology department, because you don't need to go get a cath procedure, right? Because of technology is increasing. What I'm seeing is less and less in the hospital. And what the world's moving to is outpatient surgery and outpatient stuff. When you know now you're on same day you want, you go get your knee done and you're out the same day, you use that to stay in the hospital two three days. And that's what it just continues more and more. And that's where I think technology is playing a role into being more preventative and and getting those scans and being proactive with that.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 43:29

All right, I gotta ask a question. We're gonna put you on the spot a little bit, and I only wanted to answer yes or no, so I want you anything. Did you ever do black ops missions? Yeah, okay, so the reason I'm asking that question is blackout missions, least in the Hollywood in the world, they're known to cut red tape. They just, they do something above everything else, just to get the job done. So you're the only Navy SEAL who's a CEO of a hospital, and you're used that to defy expectations. If you had a blank slate and no political no financial barriers, basically like a black ops, how would you completely redesign US healthcare and what sacred cow would you go after first nice, wow, yeah.

Jeff Mengenhausen: 44:22

Big question. I didn't know where it was going at first. Okay, what are we talking man, it's it's interesting, right? You look at Medicare for all, you look at Canada. I'm actually talking to Canada right now, because if you want a spine surgery, you you're out 18 to 24 months to get spine surgery, because they have kind of socialized medicine. So what rich people are doing in Canada is they're paying cash, 80 to 120 $150,000 paying cash, flying to Germany, getting. Whatever they want done, grabbing their records and taking them back to Canada and and then the spine surgeons there are struggling to read, you know, figure out what happened. And, you know, you look at, oh, they talk about Medicare for all. No, I think it's, it is payment reform. So I have, I have a I have a general contractor builds houses. His name is, he's Guatemalan originally, and now is just doing great. He builds gorgeous houses. And I had to explain to him how health care finance works. Is that when I charge$100 for something, I only get paid maybe $30 $25 of that, but I have to charge this up here. I said you'd have to go into Home Depot, and you're gonna see that two by four is $10 but you're only gonna pay $3 for it. But actually your buddy who negotiated rates better, who's a little bit bigger, could actually get it for $2.50 so what? Or walk into the brand new house say, I'm not gonna pay this, I'm gonna pay this. Well, no, you can't. Nope, you have to accept it, sorry. And that's what we're dealing with. When you look at it's true, just payment reform, and it starts at legislation this question, I've sat around round tables with other CEOs of like, how would we do this? How do you I sat beside our local congressman, actually, at a gala on Saturday, and he asked me and my buddy CEOs, like, can you come out to DC and just help me figure out healthcare? Like, yeah, it is very complicated, but when you look at Medicaid and Medicare, it's forcing more and more private docs to join systems, because you're having to get bigger. And you see these bigger systems getting bigger because you need economies of scale, and then you can negotiate with payers. And I'm just I'm not really answering it now. I'm listening to myself not really answering your question. But I think it's it comes down to true payment reform. And how do you have a payment system that is equal no matter what the size you are? Maybe you can supplement the rural facilities, but helping them take that next step. So I, I'd love to have, like, this is what we're going to do, honestly, talking to a bunch of CEOs. It is, it is. There's a lot of innovative things out there, but I don't have the exact answer for you. Well,

Dr. Terry Weyman: 47:36

let me, let me piggyback on that then, because you mentioned Canada, because at one time we were the healthcare system was one way, and then Obamacare came in, and it shifted to another way, using some stuff from Canada, and now shifting back again. And yet you do see people traveling to other countries because they can get stuff done. So based off of that, what have you seen? Different things tried? Where do you think we need to needle goes to the left and needle goes to the right. Where do you find this common ground and what needs to be cut out and what needs to be brought back in?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 48:14

I think there needs to be clear expectations and clear goals, which I mean for the whole country, for different services, and you could do bundle payments, and all you just get paid for performance, right? And I think that's pay for performance is probably where it should go, right? The more I do, the more I get paid versus, like, how healthy are my patients? Am I keeping them that? Am I keeping them out of the emergency room? Are they getting all their diagnostic are they getting their preventative stuff? I'm going to get paid extra. Get paid extra for that. And that's where the star rating, I think, is coming into a play is, is, if I'm a five star hospital, I'm going to get paid better than a one star because I have proven that I'm providing higher quality care, which actually decreasing the cost to CMS the government. But you would need payers to say, Hey, you can't make billions of profit on the backs of healthcare and healthy people, because you're now getting baby boomers getting wrapped into that. But I think as you look at just it. You know, you same thing with pre auth. We're going to do pre auth because it's gonna save money. No, I'm having to hire 1012, people just to get paid now, and I'm adding expense, which then gets equated to my cost report and everything else, and it just increases expenses.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 49:36

Do you see the doctor is starting to shift more from symptom care to cause care.

Jeff Mengenhausen: 49:45

I do see a little bit more of that I've been I have a very good cardiologist, and she's just focused on on that, really getting ahead of it right, and being very progressive. Of in Oh, I see where you're going. Let's do this. Geo ones is rocking the world across the country, and how is that, if you start dropping weight all of a sudden now, all those cardiac systems, high blood pressure, you know, high cholesterol, triglycerides, whatever, is starting to drop. Okay, well, now you're not using the system as much because you're actually healthier and losing the weight. But how is it affecting? But I do think it's they are moving to that, trying to get ahead of those things. Yes, we still have acute care, but it's, it's providing services right there to the patients and the access. Well, I don't want to wait six weeks, and all I got busy, I forgot about it, and off I go. Or it costs too much money,

Dr. Spencer Baron: 50:47

you know, interesting. Just yesterday, a patient came in, was telling me about they had spinal stenosis, and then they had this certain surgery using a high frequency sound, a sound you might think about it like ultrasound, but it was very directed. And Dr Terry will know exactly who I'm talking about, because we had him on our show. He's an orthopedic surgeon that did the procedure. Jeff Cantor, remember we had him on, and it's such a unique approach. And what I'm really building up to is the fact that I identify said, Did you go to Dr cantor? And he said, Yeah, with all the orthopedic surgeons in South Florida, he has his fingerprints on this approach. And with that, said, this, this orthopedic surgeon takes such pride in his work, I ended up meeting with him face to face because he puts his patients on a nutritional supplement program to reduce comorbidities and other possible complications, pre post and post surgery. Surgery. Why did that happen is because he takes such pride in what he does that the surgery was successful, but the patient became septic, so he started looking out at what could be done to make things different. So I thought when you were mentioning that, I mean, you know, you're looking at a reduction in post op care in case of, you know, any of the comorbidities surface after surgery. These are these. These are novel ideas that a that a surgeon is doing that man, it's, you know, things that could be done with, you know, if the surgeons in your hospital are exposed that they could do nutritional workups and, you know, reduce complications. You know, just other avenues of revenue that are cash based, maybe, or you know, that would attract, you know, people to your to your hospital. It's really novel, novel approach. Again, you know, preventative measures. So anyway, other than that Dr chair you want to if you don't have any other question, I can go right into rapid fire questions.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 53:13

Well, I figured, since I already got him with the black ops question and it got his face a little red, you might, might as well just go right into it.

Unknown: 53:22

I All right, so let me explain so he doesn't get any more concerned or worried.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 53:32

All right, the behavior of our show is one of the most fun parts is the near the end, and since we're closing in on the end of the show, we do this thing called rapid fire questions. There's five questions that have have, you know, may have nothing to do with the current subject matter, but it's about you and how you are quick on your feet. I would imagine you would do quite well. Now it is rapid fire, but we end up getting caught up in some of the your answers because they're interested. There's five of them. Are you ready? Jeff, for question number

Jeff Mengenhausen: 54:06

one, oh, I'm so ready.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:09

All right, what's tougher Navy SEAL Hell Week? Or running a hospital or owning a dive shop in Belize during tourist season?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 54:21

Man, I would, I'd still say it depends on the day, but I would still say, Hell Week 100%

Unknown: 54:27

did you hear that? Dr Jerry, so that might deter you from

Dr. Terry Weyman: 54:33

that shit fires me up. I like that

Dr. Spencer Baron: 54:37

good answer. All right, Jeff, question number two, you you're friends with Chris Kyle. What's one lesson or story from him that you carry with you every day? I think, with

Jeff Mengenhausen: 54:51

Chris, you know he, he was the ultimate, you know, Team guy, right? Just continuing to drive forward the OP tempo got so fast. When we were in there, I think just continuing to look forward being always honing your skills, right? He was, he was very good, and that's what he lived and breathed. And being that good just doesn't happen by chance, right? So what does the ingredients tax on so you can, we can wake up to be okay. You can wake up be good. But to be great, like Chris Kyle or someone or an NFL athlete, you have to put in the effort and the time to be great. It just, just does not happen over chance.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 55:37

Very, very cool. I just got goosebumps. Those who don't know Chris Kyle, he was considered America's deadliest sniper, but that's a whole nother interview. All right. Question number three, good job so far, Jeff as a hospital CEO, what's the one thing patients do that secretly drive you nuts, but you'll never say anything publicly until now,

Jeff Mengenhausen: 56:04

would drive me nuts. I would say it never. Were never good enough here in our small community, they expect greatness, and so we're never like what I didn't get water on time. Like, okay, we're there, you know, I have this patient. We have a patient coding down here, but get you the water. And what's great is that we get people from like, San Francisco, because we're kind of a tourist area, San Francisco, Dallas, Atlanta, these people coming like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. You guys are amazing here. Like Matt, like, You guys are amazing here. And our own community has even higher standards that sometimes we can't even drives me crazy. I'm like San Francisco. Go to hospital there.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 56:49

I love it. Hey. Derek Terry, how would you answer that question?

Dr. Terry Weyman: 56:56

What drives me crazy? Yeah, yeah, whining about the stuff that doesn't matter.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 57:06

Fair enough. I always laugh, when, when, when, when I'm in a grocery store or something, and somebody finds out that I'm a chiropractor. They, they ask, you know, you know, I got this neck thing going on. And I go, we're we're in the produce section of the grocery store. What if I was a gynecologist, would you ask me about your vagina? Come on, all right. So moving right along. Question number four, what's more relaxing for you? Jeff, diving into the ocean in Belize, or diving into spreadsheets at a hospital?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 57:42

Really tough for me to

Dr. Terry Weyman: 57:45

really be, I think B is the answer. Don't you

Unknown: 57:51

say that now, to be politically,

Jeff Mengenhausen: 57:54

I started diving in Belize, it was so different. And they're like, this is great. Like, I can actually see things when I was in the military is like, I look at a compass and I can't even see my hand in front of my face, and I'm under a boat diving in a bay in San Diego or something stupid. So you're out, like, on a reef. Like, are you kidding me? Like, this is great.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 58:15

And whoever thought a guy in South Dakota would own a dive shop

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:22

for Oh, very cool. All right. Jeff, so far, super. Good question number five, last one, if you could ban one buzzword from corporate healthcare forever, what would it be and what would you replace it with?

Jeff Mengenhausen: 58:40

One buzzword? One?

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:45

Gosh, Jerry, I don't know if, oh, I got it. Oh, there you go.

Jeff Mengenhausen: 58:48

I got it. What kind of a is? We've always done it this way.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 58:55

Oh, good. One, yeah,

Jeff Mengenhausen: 58:58

dude, I can't stand it. Always done it this way, like there's other ways to do it, or let's shake it up, right? And that's not allowed in my organization. And you know when people say that, but it's and it's so easy to say no, so easy to say this, you know, say, we've always done it this way, no, just in our organization is we always say yes, and we make it better, yes. And so you actually, and the and, you know, if I well, I think we should, you know, maybe have patients come in and we can provide them with, you know, some juice. I'm like, Well, yes, but what if we give them, like a breakfast burrito? Oh, you know what? Jeff, you know, yes. And what if we actually give him breakfast burrito and a whole meal on us, saying, Thank you for coming in and then, and you just keep taking it five times, and then you actually, like, wow, what if we actually did that? Well, what if we actually did some of that? What is the cost of that? And then, like, holy, crap, that that that? Works like what? And it doesn't have to be. Could be quality. It could be just the experience of just breaking the mold. And once you break the mold, and it's kind of, you know, you're pushing that boulder, and it's hard to get it started, but once you start getting it started, man, it starts rolling, and it's a heck of a lot easier.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:00:21

How perfect an answer is that I mean that we're obviously ending the show right now, but I gotta tell you, philosophically, that's so inspiring, because we could apply that same principle to anything that we do. And I know Dr Terry and I have been practicing for a heck of a long time, and that's a question that we can currently ask. You know, what can we do better and how can we shift and change? Thanks, Jeff, that was really great.

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:00:51

Absolutely. Thank you for thank you for taking the time that was that was just magical. We appreciate you.

Jeff Mengenhausen: 1:00:57

Yeah, thank you guys. I love just being able to bring humor, bring can do attitude. Back to Health Care is my

Dr. Terry Weyman: 1:01:06

goal, right? We do a great job. And when you want to come to California, you can take over our hospitals too in South Florida. All right, take care, Jeff. Thanks.

Dr. Spencer Baron: 1:01:20

Thank you for listening. To today's episode of The cracking backs podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Kraken backs podcast. Catch new episodes every Monday. See you next time you.