You’re Chasing the Next Fix—But Ignoring What Your Body Needs Most- Dr. Jason Pencek

Everyone’s chasing the next breakthrough in health.

Peptides.
 Hormones.
 IV therapy.
 Regenerative injections.

But what if the real problem isn’t what you’re taking…
 it’s that your body has stopped responding?

In this episode of the Crackin’ Backs Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Jason Pencek to explore a different lens on healing—one based on cellular signaling, communication, and restoring the body’s ability to respond, not just adding more inputs.

This is a conversation about what’s real, what’s hype, and what people are getting dangerously wrong when they experiment with their health.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• Why healing isn’t about adding more supplements—but restoring cellular communication 
• The truth about peptides (BPC-157, TB-500, growth hormone peptides)—what works vs hype 
• How therapies like IV hydration and nutrients, hormone optimization, and regenerative injections actually work 
• What Neural Prolotherapy (NPT) is—and how simple irritants like dextrose can trigger healing 
• Why more people are experiencing hormone imbalance, low testosterone, and burnout 
• Where people are going wrong with biohacking and self-experimentation 
• When IV therapy becomes a real clinical tool vs just expensive hydration 
• Why fixing foundations (sleep, hydration, stress, metabolism) still outperforms most “advanced” therapies 

If you’ve ever searched:

• “Do peptides work?” 
• “IV therapy benefits” 
• “How to heal faster naturally” 
• “Regenerative medicine for injuries” 

This episode gives you real-world clinical perspective—not internet opinions.

About Dr. Jason Pencek

Dr. Jason Pencek is a physician specializing in regenerative medicine, hormone optimization, and integrative therapies, focusing on restoring the body’s natural healing processes through cellular signaling and biologic interventions.

His work integrates:

• Peptide therapy 
• IV nutrient protocols 
• Hormone replacement therapy (HRT) 
• Regenerative injections (including prolotherapy techniques) 

Dr. Pencek is known for combining cutting-edge therapies with a strong emphasis on foundational health principles, helping patients move beyond symptom management toward true physiological restoration and performance.

Why This Episode Matters

We’re living in a time where:

• Biohacking is trending 
• Peptides are widely available 
• People are self-experimenting without guidance 

But without understanding how the body actually communicates and heals, more interventions don’t always equal better results.

Sometimes, the most powerful change comes from restoring the system—not overriding it.

We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

 Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:00)
You know, everybody's chasing this next supplement, the next workout, the next biohack. But, you know, what if the real problem isn't what you're taking, it's that your body hasn't really listened to what you're doing. Today's guest lives at the intersection of regenerative medicine, hormones, and cellular signaling using peptides, IV therapies, and biologic injections to essentially retrain the body to heal itself.

But here's the real question. Are these cutting edge therapies the future of medicine or are we getting way ahead of the science? Let's find out with Dr. Jason Pensick. Welcome to the show.

Jason (00:43)
Thank you, John. I'm super excited to be here today.

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:46)
Well, we are too, because we hope you're going to answer some of these age old questions that are going on these days.

Jason (00:50)
I hope I

can't see those peptides have been it is the rage if you can't open social media now without finding Peptides somewhere you're doing something wrong so

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:00)
I know.

Dr Terry (01:00)
Totally.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:00)
How about how

about our patients asking us all day long what's going on here? So.

Jason (01:03)
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well,

that's because they're seeing they're seeing their favorite influencers now talking about peptides and saying, Doc, what do you know? Why don't you know this stuff? Why aren't you telling me this stuff? Why am I living online? And that's what I obviously see. We see patients all the time complaining that their doctors don't know what peptides are left and right. So. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:12)
You

So your work is more

in the idea of this thing called signaling and communication. Are we misunderstanding how the body actually heals?

Jason (01:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No.

No, I mean, right, the signaling, right? Even listen, even the chiropractic adjustment, right, is signaling, right? We're the body to heal and we're doing everything we do is having some kind of signal to heal, right? I think that's what we've all understood when it comes to medicine. So when I talk about peptides, these are just small signaling molecules that are signaling the body to do something. But all of the therapies that I do are some kind of signaling. I just did a therapy on a patient before I walked in here.

Doing some injections with sugar water and people are like sugar water. What do you do with that? We do ⁓ some ⁓ We work on nerves and help reduce inflammation right the sugar water is a basically signaling helping the nerve ⁓ Basically bring information down with injecting sugar actually into the into the nerve area and it's all subq They're all small needles and I try to tell people Signaling is everything right everything we doing is causing some kind of signal input into the body And then how does your body respond to it no matter what we do?

Dr. Spencer Baron (02:26)
Wait, it's sugar water. All I can think of is you're diabetes, you're gonna become a diabetic patient or something like that. Tell me about that.

Jason (02:27)
Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Dr Terry (02:34)
Is that a term

for that called prolo therapy?

Jason (02:37)
So actually it's called perineural injection therapy. Prolotherapy uses 50 % dextrose, this is used 5%. The 50 % dextrose basically kind of burns the nerves a little bit. And what ends up happening is you get a little more pain with that. What we're working on with prolotherapy is to tighten up the ligaments and it's kind of kind of a little scarring, tightens everything down and helps heal the area, the instability. With perineural injection therapy, what we're working on is something called the TRIP-V1 receptor. It takes a molecule of glucose.

puts it into the cell, into the nerve actually, and then takes out sodium. So as we all know, right, sodium creates inflammation or doesn't, I should say holds water, right? So if you eat a bunch of salt chips this weekend and you come back, you're like, I'm a little bloated, what's going on? I had a bunch of salt. You keep the bloat. Same thing with your nerves. So all we're doing is taking the bloat out of the nerves and allowing the nerves to stop shooting signals out saying, come fix us. We're bloated. Something's wrong with inflammation. So what it does is it brings down inflammation at the nerve level. And we're doing this at the subcutaneous nerves. So we're doing,

Small little, I mean, we're talking baby needles in there. This guy actually came in today. He has numbness in his right hand and into his, ⁓ you know, right ⁓ index finger and thumb. And he's been having this for years, And today was the first day he said, I couldn't believe his pain was gone. His pain and numbness was gone right away. And again, something he's dealt with for years and he had no idea. Of course, I'm thinking right away, he had both arms originally saying both hands are doing it. And, know, obviously

I'm chiro trained originally. like, well, there's probably some, you know, TOS going on. Maybe you have some inflammation in the neck, obviously like you need an adjustment. This is my first thought. And he said one hand got better. The other one isn't better now. And said, let's just shoot it up. Nothing's going to hurt you. This is sugar water. I can't screw this up if I want to. And we did a couple of injections in his arm. His nerve pain went away. His pain went away. He's got, can't believe that I can actually feel my fingers. It was not like a numbness anymore. And I've this time and time again. So this is again, perineural injection therapy.

5 % dextrose. ⁓ I learned this years ago. had actually went to the seminars in Hawaii 10 years ago. I rolled my ankle the day before the seminar and I'm hiking the mountains, hiking a volcano in Hawaii and I couldn't hike the next day. And then I go to the seminar and I'm in pain. And of course they're talking about this dextrose and sugar water and it's literally sugar water. That's all the whole three day course is all just how to inject sugar water in people. So I, you know, I sat there and listened and I said, I'm injured, whoever wants to get treated. So I got treated.

And I couldn't stand on my foot before I went to that. I mean, could. I was really painful to step down. I had, you know, probably a grade two, grade three ankle sprain. They injected me and they didn't just do the ankle. The idea is that obviously nerves originate in the spine and go down. we think of as a garden hose, right? This kinks all the way down and the closest kink is where typically the pain happens. There's no no certain signaling going up and down. So what you're doing is find those spots where the kinks are and you're putting a little bit of sugar water into that area. So you'll basically palpating the nerves all the way up.

And they did the palpation that went down my leg. They injected a bunch of places not just my ankle I jumped off that table and I couldn't believe my pain was gone. I was like, what did you put in there guys? This isn't I don't believe you like I don't believe you feel like you just watched us take a bag of sugar water and draw it up in front of you I was like, I don't believe you like this doesn't make any sense. Logically. I don't get it And so after that I was a true believer. I went home and I actually injected my first patient that next week He had rolled his ankle. Of course was a primary care physician normally do you roll your ankle you see him?

You know, as a chiro we can treat that. We can do some adjustments as things we can do. We do mobility exercises. A lot more that we can do than your typical, ⁓ you know, PCP. They wrapped his ankle and said, you're wrapped up. Good luck. It'll feel better. Take some ibuprofen. You're fine. And I said, well, how about I just learned this thing. How about you let me treat it? So we did a literally I think I did three injections into his ankle and I wasn't as good at palpation. I didn't do the whole nerve root and go all the way up his back. And he stood up because my pain is gone. I don't know what you just did, but I'm.

So thankful and he came back the next week. was, cause I usually tell people come back. It's about 25 % better each time I do it. He comes back the next week. The pain's been gone. Never came back. So I got, I mean, I fell hard into this. it's something I do quite a bit of. love peptide medicine. I think it's great. I think there's a point of what peptides don't work. You need other modalities. I think this is what we miss in medicine because your patients come to you and say, doc, I need to be on, are these peptides? What are these doing? Well, sometimes peptides aren't enough.

sometimes in other modalities. I think we've now kind of gone a full swing into peptide medicine where everyone's taking peptides for everything and forgetting about other therapies that we all have access to. And this is why I tell people this guy came in. like, you're not a good candidate for peptides. I don't know this would actually help you as much. Let me inject it. And again, he walks out with pain free. He actually the pain in the other arm that was gone. He's like, well, now that I have this pain, this other arm gone. Well, this one has a little more than I thought it did. And that's why I tell people when I start doing perineural injection therapy, we might quiet one area.

You might see pain somewhere else because of the pain gate therapy. You only really feel pain in one big area once. So I once I did that. Now his arm had some pain. Then his ankle had some pain. So we kind of treated a couple of different areas today and he said everything when he walked out, everything is better. He couldn't believe we're just injecting sugar water. So again, a lot of modalities, a lot of things I do. Peptides are kind of the big thing I'm in, but I still have all the other therapies at my my resource. don't I can't say trained classically as a chiropractor.

I can't say I've ever injected, sorry, ever adjust a day in my life. Other than my friends, we go places, I'll adjust my friends. But we have chiropractic work with typically. I have one in this office I'm in now. I had one in my other office. I just send them over there. Hey, sometimes it's not just me. I need to use other modalities. And that's what I have to remind my patients of. I am not the only one you should be seeing. There are other things you need besides me that are very useful for long-term healthcare. So, yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (08:19)
That's great. let me hold

on. Hold on here. Doc, you're talking about sugar water, not molasses water, not maple syrup, not cortisone. You're talking like I can go grab a bag of sugar and put it in some vector aesthetic or.

Jason (08:25)
Yeah. No, D5W. No. You can actually you could actually just see up. No,

this is the funny thing. They actually said this at the conference. They said, here's the thing. You ever person that's in pain and I mean, you know, whatever, and you can't see you tell him to put powdered sugar in some water in a bowl, mix it up and put a paste on your body and it'll take care of the pain. I was like, that's not true. And they said it's not going to work as well as the injections, but literally

The science proves it. And again, I do this time and time again. I couldn't believe it until I did it. And once I had it done, I couldn't not see it. So yeah, mean, nowadays we put sometimes, not every time, but sometimes we put a little local anesthetic, like it's like a one to 10 ratio. So a little bit of local anesthetic. If I'm trying like, depending on the patient, what's going on, 90 % of the time we do perineural, it is only sugar water and patients walk out pain free. ⁓ Usually the goal is by the end of therapy, the pain is gone. ⁓

Typically I tell people again, 25 % gone each week. So it will come back some, my, my guess is typically after four weeks, it's gone. My athletes, we typically do twice a week. Um, it's about twice a week, uh, for usually two to three weeks and they get resolved a bit quicker. But my normal patients to come in, they're not in a little bit of pain. They come and see me at four different times. Um, and I've had it resolved to one injection depends how acute it is, right? If we have an acute patient coming in, I can typically fix in one treatment. If it's been there for this guy, he's had it for, you know, four or five years now.

It's not gonna be one treatment, but I do expect him come back and say, wow, this is definitely better than has been, know, he's that he's that guy that he's on testosterone. You know, he feels really good right now, but you can you can look at him. He's a little bit small. I can tell he's a little puffy, too. So I did think, hey, you're probably a little puffiness going on on top of this because now you're having numbness and all these different extremities. So I said he probably needs more than that. But this is a good place to start with them and sugar water. And that was that was it. It was better. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (10:18)
Unbelievable. Terry.

All right. Do you want to comment on that? Can I go on?

Dr Terry (10:24)
Go on about but what is what's the ratio if you want to put a paste on and you're and you got a swollen ankle You just grab some powdered sugar and wire just and mix it till it's like pasty and then

Jason (10:35)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like a little

like a pace to make a pace out of it. Yeah, make a pace. I mean you can make a pace on crazy. I understand it sounds nuts. Trust me. I know I thought it was nuts when I got injected. I'm telling you the first time Docs the first time I got this done to me. I couldn't I would jumped off the table. I had pain before I couldn't stand I couldn't walk it was uneven. I tried hiking the day before after my old ankle. I couldn't walk and then I did this injection and I'm thinking

Dr Terry (10:39)
I got it.

Jason (11:01)
Okay, what sugar water placebo effect? This is straight placebo. You're just literally, this is it, right? It's the best placebo you could possibly give inject sugar water, like the sugar pill, the sugar water, let's do it. And I jumped off. I was like, I don't know what you did, but it's better. And I've used saline before to try saline doesn't work. So I was like, let me try this. Let me just see if it's just placebo. I injected saline into patients, no change. So I really realized dextrose was like something special about it. Cause I have, again, I'm an experiment. I couldn't believe this is just sugar water.

Dr Terry (11:15)
desk. Right.

Jason (11:30)
And yeah, patients came back and couldn't believe it is the number of cases I've seen. We just had another one recently. It was a dancer and she had seen probably four or five other orthopedic doctors before me. She would collapse every so often and she'd had imaging done and they didn't really see anything and she had a joint injection in her knee. They didn't really help. You know, the typical cortisone shot that orthopedics, you know, friends do didn't see any difference.

Then she's another doctor. The doctor said, look, I can't treat you. Your injury is not in the knee. It's actually a little behind your knee. And so she's like, OK, why don't you do? And one of the guys I worked with, a patient of mine, saw her in the gym and she was talking about this. He goes, I got a guy. Go see my friend. So she came to see me. We did, think, four treatments on her and her biggest complaint was every so often she would just collapse and she was a dancer. She said, I can't not dance. This is my life. Four treatments later, she's gone. I haven't seen her since. She said it's fixed totally. Never came back.

And it was literally sugar water directions again for the three other practitioners Sorry saw her before me and all of them, you know, just couldn't get it right And so I was telling my orthopedic in brethren. I'm like guys. This is it In fact, I I had a doc of many many many years ago who? Completely destroyed me. I put this on Instagram. I made a comment made a video on it He's like you're totally wrong. This isn't real. I'm like, well, here's the papers I sent the papers to him and the best thing was a few weeks later, maybe a couple months later, I

I got reached back out by his wife and she said, well, here's the funny thing. His other orthopedic doctor friend said, hey, this perineural injection therapy, have you heard of it? We should go learn it. I've heard some good things. It really does work for patients. I've had patients and I'm starting dying because he would never come back and tell me this. But his orthopedic friend was like, we got to this therapy. So a lot of the orthopedic doctors that I talked to, I say this is a beginning step. You can have your P.A.D. You can have your nurse practitioner. You don't have to do this. But if someone in your office is doing this, the number of orthopedic cases you would decrease.

Dr Terry (13:06)
That's awesome. Now.

Jason (13:22)
because you can't treat them. are cases that they're not doing a good job with. They can't do that. You know, like, and then as a Cairo that I wasn't able to get that either. Ankle pain. I mean, got that. can't do something for it. I can tape it well, but I had nothing I could do. There was instant and instant gratification of patients. And so I have this therapy. Yeah.

Dr Terry (13:37)
Hey, Doug, you're

not just a car, but you have another degree. Yeah, you're a nurse practitioner. So you you here here you are going to get your NP and you're getting this nurse practitioner degree and they're talking about all these medications and pharmaceuticals and all stuff. And you just had to go to the grocery store. Yeah.

Jason (13:42)
Interspec Titioner. Yeah, Cairo Interspec Titioner. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (13:55)
You

Jason (13:57)
HAHAHAHA ⁓

It's a- hey, you said sugar? I know it's bad for them, but if you just give it a bowl, trust me, I promise it'll work. yeah.

Dr Terry (14:07)
Yeah, here's all these clinical nutritionists going, no sugar, no processed foods, no corn.

Dr. Spencer Baron (14:09)
Yeah.

Dr Terry (14:14)
And you

Dr. Spencer Baron (14:15)
Wow.

Dr Terry (14:15)
went to all this schooling, all we had to do was go to Rauss, Kroger, and you would have been fine.

Jason (14:17)
Yeah.

I got the whole foods and said, hey, guys, you have to where's the sugar? I just need that. I got back pain. Let me just pop that on. Yeah, it's so funny. went to when I went to school, actually, I was excited. I was my chiropractic degree. I was actually crossed over. was in my last year of chiro school, started my first year of nurse practitioner school. So I right when I finished my clinicals for chiro, I clinicals into a nurse practitioner. And one of the I worked with the doc, one of the docs I was working with, I shadowed, you know, do my clinicals with.

Dr Terry (14:25)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (14:25)
Just a bag of sugar.

Jason (14:47)
And she's like, do you actually care to learn me in this? go, no, I don't think I'm going be using much of anything you're doing here, but I appreciate you asking me. ⁓ and so I'm not that I didn't go through and I took all the tests and passed everything, but you know, it's just funny cause you know, this doc, in fact, the best part of this whole thing is I said to her when I graduated, you want to start practice with me? Do you want to work? I need an MD. I'd like to have you. And then one's like, no, no, no, I don't, I don't want to do this. I'm good. You keep doing it. And I want to say it must've been three or four years ago. I'm on my computer and my Mac.

And I don't know you ever, if you ever get on wifi, if someone gets on wifi typically or whatever, it can say, do you want to the password? And her name pops up. Do you want to share the password with this person? And I was at A4M, which is the biggest anti-aging medicine conference. I'm like, I hit share. I'm like, I really hope she saw that I shared it with her so she knew, I knew she was there because I was dying and that she comes. She finally, probably five years later, moved into the medicine I was doing and she was so against it and like, absolutely not, no way. And here she is years later.

trying this at Medicine Out. And I thought it was just, it was so cool because, you know, we get to these medical people and they're so against what we do, right? I mean, I have so many, you know, MDs who just, you know, crap on the professional chiropractor. They crap on, if you're not an MD or DO, you must not know what you're doing at all. And I have some MDs that think what you're doing is amazing and great. I go teach for MDs. I speak on peptides worldwide. I teach courses and I'm teaching MDs and they're all like, my God, what? This is amazing. I don't care who you are teaching me. Thank you.

Dr. Spencer Baron (16:01)
You

Jason (16:14)
And I see other indies and they're like, you're an idiot. BP 657. There's no result. There's no human trials. You're so stupid. You're dumb. Why are you using this? I sit there and think there's a really giant gap here between the people that really, you know, you'd see people that want to care and want to try. You people that are like totally put their head in the sand and say, no way this stuff doesn't work. We don't want to be involved. Screw you. You know, you're a Cairo. You're just an idiot. I'm like, okay, sure. You know what? If that's how you feel, I'm not going to change your mind. Good luck. I hope your patients get better.

Dr. Spencer Baron (16:26)
Yeah. ⁓

Jason (16:44)
And that's all I can say. I mean, I can't, you know, try to get the dogma changed these people. mean, after being in the Cairo school, I got to say that really prepared me super well for my nurse practitioner because when I started it, you know, after going through, obviously when we finished Cairo school, we have all this knowledge for clinical nutritionists and things that, that I feel like are not being touched as well for the MDs or DOs out there. They're not getting that same kind of training we are. And I would go with this knowledge. was like, obviously when you finished

When I finished school, like, my God, I can get vitamin D to everyone. Everyone's going to get better. Vitamin D, that's going to fix everything out there. ⁓ You know, in real life, I'm like, that's it's a good adjunct, but it's not going to fix every person I see. But at least we're being talked about it. And I feel like the MDs don't get that same nutrition training. So when I got out, I was like, I want to do something different than what was being done with traditional drugs. And giving blood pressure medicines all day long, every day, wasn't going to work for me. And I don't see the results, right? We're just fixing.

You know, we're not fixing anything. We're actually just treating some condition without fixing what's actually going on. I think that's where I fell into this medicine. I fell in love with it because I was like, I can actually start treating things and working on the underlying conditions and not just letting people, ⁓ you know, keep suffering with whatever disease process they have, which is what I think we all really want ultimately.

Dr. Spencer Baron (18:02)
man, that is that is fantastic. And it's so true. But I've often said because I've been practicing 40 years. And I remember 40 years ago, they didn't even the medical profession said, nutrition, vitamin, you don't need that. Just have a balanced diet. Well, you know, now that that's not true. And a lot of the MDs are selling out to the idea of a cash based nutritional approach to care, especially with the peptides now. So let me ask you more about. Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you more about the peptides and

Jason (18:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Of course. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (18:31)
You know, they're everywhere right now in the BPC 157, like you mentioned in the TB 500 growth hormone peptide. So what actually works in real patients versus just all that internet hype?

Jason (18:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's a good question. So remember, most of these are SIGMA molecules. Some of them have no human data. So for example, BPC 157 has been around for a long time. It was originally identified in the gut ⁓ in our, basically the stomach acid. And, you know, we kind of think it makes a little sense. The stomach is always kind of breaking stuff down, but stomach acid hears them to repair, repair everything. So BPC 157 identified there, it was used in mice and rats and they found great healing. They injected these mice and they saw giant improvements in this. Now,

Translating to humans, there's two studies. ⁓ One was the orthopedic study. I think they had like 14 different people in it. They saw some improvement, but it's really small. And they had an oral study that they didn't finish on oral BPC. So the lack of human data obviously is concerning, right? There's not much to stay on this. I've been using it in practice for years. I would say for the most part, it's worked well. I personally take BPC-157. consider it pretty much water. For pair and covering, I think it works really well.

Like I said, this patient had today BP 757 was great, but it doesn't work in everyone. would have I would not have given to this guy. He would have said, hey, you actually need more than what this is going to offer. So I have to set realistic expectations. I think we have hyped up peptides as is the thing. If I always joke, there's a peptide for everything. And honestly, probably given a peptide wouldn't been bad for this guy, but it wasn't going to fix this issue. So I always am looking at what we can. What's the root cause? What's going on? Why are we using this? And I think peptides have.

A giant value. I mean, there's there's some peptides that work right? know GLP ones if you haven't heard of Monjaro and you know, was epic at this point you've lived under rock you are clearly missing the marketing at this point and I will say that we use a lot of those now before I used ⁓ some of the tide or I epic when it first came out I was one of the first to do it with a person taught me dr. Seeds ⁓ He spoke of lyric glutide, which I believe is I think trulicity that was out probably seven or eight years ago

So I was using that in practice for metabolic instability and I actually had some good results. Just more frequent, more expensive. People got more sick. He didn't lose much weight. So it's expensive and people don't really want to get it. Once then a good site came out. Oh my gosh. Everyone, right? think peptides really became bigger once the GOP once came out and then everyone said, oh my gosh, there's other peptides before this. It was all in the bodybuilding world. You're a bodybuilder. You probably know about BPC or GHK or TB 500. These were all growth hormone peptides. These were known in the industry.

But no one outside of that was really talking about it. This wasn't a big thing. When I first started this seven years ago, eight years ago now, seven, eight years ago, it was an accident. My friends were asking for steroids and growth hormone. They're like, you've been in school so long. When do you start prescribing our steroids? We want the steroids. You want the growth and we want to get jacked. Let's go. So I looked up growth hormone. I no clue about how to prescribe it, how to use it. And the first thing that popped up for me was growth hormone peptides. And I was like, what are these growth peptides? never in school had never heard of these things. They didn't exist.

⁓ So I started looking them up. did a deep dive and I found there was a course that had one of the first courses they came to peptides in the United States was right about to happen. I was within, you know, maybe like a month of when I first learned. said, got to go to this. So I to my first seminar, first time learning. It's like an overview. I was like, this is really great. I started deep diving more and more and more data. So I first learned about peptides. And again, they weren't, this wasn't a big deal. I went to my first seminar. I think there was maybe 30 of us. It was small, very small.

⁓ And then it's grown the conference that go to now have thousand numbers multiple conferences with thousands of people there You know this last a4m that was in ⁓ Vegas. It's like the big anti-aging conference. It was surrounded peptide was like the big buzzword I mean people coming to learn peptides so went from the small little You know kind of area and it grew and begin the hype crew right our patients wanted to know more That's really what happened our patients want to know more which means we have to be educated talk to them So yeah, the hype is re the hype is going on it all depends right there

People think peptides fix everything. And like I just have been saying, they don't treat everything. They do a good job for certain things. Growth hormone peptides, we have clinical data, tests and rounds of peptide. It does work at improving growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, which is what we care about downstream from growth hormone. It works. Human data. GLP-1s, human data. There's a peptide to make you horny. Human data, it exists. You take it, you get horny. Women love it, men love it, it's great. You know, there's peptides for tanning that have human data.

In fact, one of the peptides that we don't think about a lot is insulin. It's one of the first peptides that existed. Insulin's commonly used, right? A lot of our patients, at some point you might see, have insulin. Even some antimicrobials are actually peptides. So there are more peptides out there than people realize. It's just that the longevity space of peptides has become this overblown, everyone's on them, everyone's doing them. You know, and again, if I can give you a peptide to make you horny, I can give you one to make you tan, I can give you one to make you jacked and lose weight.

That covers a lot of areas that most people want to get into. So, you know, and those things have human data. Now, the repair peptides are very questionable. mean, the human data on them is lacking. TB 500 doesn't have a much human data. GHKCU, which is the one everyone loves with skin, hair, nails, and all the women are taking to look pretty. There's topical data shows it works. Okay. Human data for injectable doesn't exist. I will say the ⁓ pharmaceutical industry can't make money. The patents have basically expired or

If it's a natural occurring substance, they can't make a patent on it. So there's no money to be made on making human studies. So some of it is a lot of it, I should say, is anecdotal. We just kind of say, hey, I'm taking this and doing this. I have a doctor actually reached out to me from, I want to say Argentina or Columbia, sorry, Columbia, who just reached out to me. He's trying to work on making an IRB. He's turned all the doctor's info and he wants to take these peptides and study them. Hey, and this isn't the first person said this to me.

multiple groups right now trying to bring some legitimacy because just like you are asking me, what's hype? Do we have data? Do we see information? Is this experimental only? A lot of the online places you see the people selling them, the influencers are just saying, hey, come use my peptides. Yeah, mean, the hype and what they're saying it treats is definitely overblown right now, 100%. You know, a lot of people say it treats this, this and this, and it may not treat that. And of course what happens is it's like any drug, right?

Not every blood pressure medicine works for everyone. There's multiple blood pressure meds because this one isn't the right one. You have to have another one that might treat someone else, another one because you don't respond. I think peptides are the same way. They might have some use in people, but it may not be the right peptide for you. It may not be the right time to use it. So while I think peptides have a giant time and place and there is some really good human data in some of these, there's not a peptide, you know, that could say this one person should take this peptide and everyone should be on it. I love GLP-1s.

I think they're great use and great for metabolic issues. I use a lot of them for weight loss. Obviously we do diet nutrition as well, but it has made a giant leap right now. I patients that come to me and it's kind of the I guess the cheat code to getting yourself a six pack. I have a lot of bodybuilders gone. There's the thing. I mean, you can see me. Bodybuilders are on these things now and I want to say that's the one thing bodybuilders are usually the first to the industry when it comes to experimenting with anything and everything and the Bible industry has been nuts about peptides for years now again.

They're nuts about lots of things that aren't safe, They're taking steroids is not what I recommend them to do. So I can't say follow what the bodybuilders do, but I can say they spend a lot more time looking at this stuff than the men and the people. My bodybuilders have a lot more research behind them than I do sometimes, right? They're coming to me and telling them about the drugs they take. like, I've never heard of Mastron, Premo. Like, I don't know what this stuff is. I have to go research this. And they're like, oh, I've take this and this. like, I don't know what does to your body. It's probably terrible for you.

but I don't know what ways it's terrible for you. they're there and they'll come to me and say, oh, I know it's bad for the heart. I know it's larger and they'll tell me what it does. And so I'm just sitting here thinking, well, you know, how experimental are these, these peptides? And I want to say bottom line is there is some good human data and some good results and some stuff and other stuff is it's questionable on how well it works and who it's good for. I think the, the big one right now, a of people talk about is NAD, not peptide, you know, technically.

But everyone's in the NAD craze. NAD, NAD, you know, that's all people want to hear about. And there is no way to get any D injection to the cell. It doesn't exist. We think CD38 breaks it down outside the cell, turns into niacin, then moves into the cell. That's how we believe it works. But there's no data to really show what happens. So people, you know, comment on this and tell me, hey, you know, this NAD stuff, ⁓ does it work? I don't know. I have a lot of patients. I try.

I try pulling people like I say, hey, let me know in the comments how this works to you. And you have people that swear it's the best in the world, but guess what? So do sugar pills. And if you pull the people take sugar pills, they're like, this worked the best stuff ever. So it's hard, right? The data has not caught up to what we have now. And I don't know if it ever will unless enough practitioners start keeping logs and keeping data sets in their own. I can say in practice, I feel like it's worked really well, but I'm only hearing people that come back, right? Patients don't get better.

They're typically not coming back to us, right? You see a patient, they see you few times, you either believe after they stopped seeing you because they got better or because they found someone else. And we have no idea that data. don't have, no one's following up with my patients saying, hey, did this actually work? Are you better? Is that why you stopped seeing me? And I don't know if you two are tracking that in your office, but I can tell you in my practice, we don't track that. So I don't know if the patient stopped seeing me because this didn't work and they found someone else or was it because you got better and you just didn't need to see me anymore? And like, I don't know which one it is. And also, let's be real.

and fixes a lot of things. If you have an injury and it's acute and I give you BPC 157 it might heal the same if you did nothing but you might attribute it to the peptide because you took it while you were still healing. So I think there's a lot of ⁓ missing data that I would love to get. I just don't have the money to fund a study or the time so I'm relying on these other groups that coming to me saying hey if we want our study would you be involved? Would you help? Would you put the word out? And I'm hoping someone finally puts out a little more data so we can start to see maybe what really does work.

because again, I know you're hearing this in your office. People are saying, Doc, do you hear what this BPC stuff, should I be taking it? And you're like, I looked, I don't know. Maybe you should, I don't know. I guess the worst kind of thing I think of is more, it harm someone? And I think the, the shortage that is most of these peptides are not harmful unless you have cancer or your breastfeeding, your lactating. Those are the top three things I can think of. Outside of that, I'm not saying for every peptide, but for the most part, if you don't have cancer, it's probably not gonna hurt you.

But we don't have 10 years data, so I can't even really answer that one ⁓ completely truthfully well. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (29:29)
Dr. J, let me ask you, first of

all, I love your energy. It makes me think you're fueled by a MOTC, which is one you haven't mentioned yet for energy. I think it's great. I've been hearing a lot about MOTC these days too. what actually worries you now with all the hype that's going on? Is there anything in particular that you feel that the audience needs to know?

Jason (29:35)
Peptides. Yes. Yeah.

Dr Terry (29:37)
Thank

Jason (29:45)
Yeah.

Buying peptides from your local influencer really scares me. A lot. I had, it was actually really funny. And you know, I finally got my guy friends started a group chat, Peptide Poppy, for me to be in to talk to all of them. And I just knew it became a big, I knew peptides, I've been knowing, right? The last year I've watched my Instagram grow because I'm talking about peptides. So I've seen this kind of shift happen, but it really became more real to me when my friends started group chat.

Dr. Spencer Baron (30:01)
You're

Jason (30:24)
talked about peptides. like, you guys didn't care a year ago. The last three years we've been hanging out and I mean, I'm very fit. Everyone sees me. I'm like, I work out, I eat healthy, take peptides, I talk about all these things that I do and no one cared. And then all of a sudden in the last year, they all started to care. In the last six months, I had this group chat started. I'm like, something's shifted here. And now all my guy friends, we have a boat boys group, kind of just go on a boat and one of the guys on the boat. So we go out and all these guys are friends with now, they got peptides and they ruin stuff.

and I have people reach out to me like, what did you give this guy? He looks great. He has a six pack now. What did you do? And I'm just laughing to myself because all of a sudden, peptides became this thing and now everyone wants it. I have one of the girls that I know from the boat actually just recently, she posted online, one of the guys sent it to me. It's like, hey, here's my link for peptides. Go online and buy your peptides. I'm thinking, you've been on the boat with me, I know you, and you have zero clue about any of this stuff.

I mean, what did you read? Like a PDF? told you which peptide here's repair peptides. Here's the three for this. Here's this one for weight loss. Like you read that night telling people out there to do this. And this is, I want to say it is real medicine, right? We're injecting something. And so if you're buying from some unknown lab, ⁓ you don't know what you're getting and just popping up. And all honesty, a lot of these companies are coming. There might be, ⁓ a few places making these right now in the United States that are making actually bottling. I guess what I should.

First start with that one is ⁓ when it comes to making peptides, we usually get it comes as raw powder. It's called API. The raw powder comes in. Most of it's made in China. It doesn't mean it's bad. Even the pharmacies get it from China because it's way cheap. There's a small, small handful of people making ⁓ actual peptides in the United States. ⁓ It's the same formula, so it really doesn't matter. It's the testing to see if it's safe is what really matters. So I don't care where you get it. It's the test. it's ultimately going to determine whether not that's safe to put in your body.

you are injecting something, which means you are bypassing the gut. The gut protects you from lots of things. So given oral pills to people, yeah, there might be some oral pills that may not be good for you and hurt you. But when you bypass the gut, you're strongly increasing the risk of some kind of infection or something worse happening. So this is real medicine. We're not just playing with things. Some of these are FDA approved drugs that the GLP ones, GHRH is test, Maryland, for example. These are drugs they've been through studies. You these aren't things you just go into the health food store and grab off the shelf and start taking.

So having people understand that working with someone is really important, not just going to your local influencer and buying peptides because they said, this peptide will help you lose weight or this peptide to help you with this. And you have no idea what's going on or why to use it. But someone said to use it, especially, you know, people were all desperate, right? When you're in pain, you don't feel good. You're desperate for something. And if your doctor hasn't helped you and you can't find relief, you listen to anyone and everyone because you think it's better than nothing. ⁓ So I think my.

Big theory now is that we have a lot of people talking about this stuff online who have no clue what they're doing. They're selling stuff from random sites. They don't really know. They don't know if they trust them. Someone reached out to him and said, hey, if you sell to me, I'll give you 20 % back. Great. Of course I'll sell for you. can make money off this. But they don't know what this company is. They don't know how safe it is. One of my close friends ended up starting a peptide company. He ended up making a full lab in the United States. And even if you have a full lab in United States, that still means you're importing the raw powder.

So what happens is someone imports the powder or sends you the powder. Usually the place that makes the actual peptide, the raw powder, does not bottle it and put it together. It's not always true, but for the most part, most of these places were just in the raw powder and then someone else has to bottle it put it together. So the first step is it's made. Second step is it's put together in powder, checked sterilization. ⁓ Is it safe? Does it have heavy metals? Does it have LPS? ⁓ Are we looking for how much is in there? Is it actually what it says it is?

This guy actually before he made the lab was buying from China vials. And he said about 40 % of the stuff he bought because he got everything tested would come back failure. It wasn't the right product. It had some kind of heavy metal in it or it had LPS. And he said he just he let contact the manufacturer and said, yeah, we'll send you a new one. Don't worry. And in fact, one of the times they told him, don't worry, we'll send you new stuff. Can you send this to another facility for us? They'll take it. So it failed testing. And they said.

No, just send it to someone else. He'll take it. He looked at the address line. It was some warehouse in the middle of nowhere. He goes, I'm throwing this out. Like no one's getting this product, but they were trying to pass it on to the next person instead of saying, oh yeah, it's failed. We'll get you a new product. They were just going to sell it to someone else. So very strupulous vendors in China. And I'm sure in America it's going to be the same. Not everyone's perfect, right? So I can imagine it happens here. Probably more common in China because that's when most of it's produced. So you have to really understand your vendors and trust them. And you have to double check them. You have to test them.

So it is lots of steps to get there and not even labs created equally. I tell everyone look for GMP certified labs with FDA registration. That's like that's who sells the pharmacies. I just talked to my nurse today about this. I saying even even the GMP certified labs can fail. A pharmacy of mine was buying NAD. They got it from GMP certified facility that was FDA approved and they got NAD.

It had LPS in it, is the polysaccharides, endotoxins. You feel if you reject this stuff, you get really sick. Like you feel like you have the flu, cold, awful. I mean, it's not a good feeling. It leads to higher risk of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Like it's not good in your body. And they did the testing. They got the testing from the facility. It said it was clean to have endotoxins. Everything was clean. And so typically what happens with pharmacies, they test themselves and they get the product. They do in-house testing. Then they send it to third party testing. They tested in-house and apparently it passed whatever they were testing.

They started shipping to clients and then within a few days they get the testing back from the, uh, from however their third party vendor was, they'd already sent out batches of this stuff. And I had patients get this in any product actually from them and they were like, I'm getting really sick. I don't feel good. And a couple of patients, I'm getting hives at the site. I don't know what's going on. This has never happened before. And it ends up finding out it was LPS. There was a little polysaccharides and endotoxins in the actual supply. And here you have a GMP certified facility FDA approved.

And still the next set of testing found out, oh yeah, either you lied or your testing failed and you didn't get the right testing. So even with buying from labs, this is why I do recommend pharmacies as much as I can because that that pharmacy, what they immediately do, they contacted all the people that got this. They said, toss the bottles and replace everything. They let people know what to do. They also stopped the production, stopped and even got rid of all of it. When you're a lab, you could care less. Twenty people reach out to you and say they get sick, they don't feel good. You're not.

You're making money. Why would you? Why would you? What? You have no reason. This is for research only guys. You're injecting this to yourselves. That doesn't that's on you. So I do caution even in the situation with the GMP certified FDA pre-vlad, which is I think the safest you could possibly get from even they have issues. So I think the biggest thing of this is first off, know who you're buying stuff from. And second off, know who to trust when it comes to this stuff, because there's a lot of people who don't know how to do this and they're trying to counsel you on it. And they maybe have had

I worked with a bunch of people, but they don't really understand the medicine, how it works, how the signaling works. And I think it's not like have to know biochemical pathways and understand that. That's not necessary. But least understanding how the stuff works and what reactions you might see, who not to use it in, some basic things are useful for anyone out there that's talking about it. And again, it is everywhere. can't, I mean, obviously, because I speak about peptides, I'm sure it's all over my phone, but I think anyone right now...

that has Instagram or has some kind of, you know, Facebook, anything is seen some kind of peptides at some point. It's popping up. We're all getting access. I feel like we have the A.I. and the peptide boom right now, both going at the same time, you know, side by side. And it's like, which one's bigger right now? You know, the A.I. are peptides. And I feel like this is all I see all the time is just lots of this peptides. And again, I am in this industry, so I do understand that. But I have people come up to me and they're like, friends, they don't even know do peptides and talk about this stuff. Have you heard of peptides? I'm like, yeah, of course I've heard peptides. I talk about this stuff every day.

So I see it all the time. And I think, especially now because patients ask about it. And they're always asking safety questions. What do I do? What should I look for? Where should I get it from? ⁓ So it's really hard. think that's the biggest thing. Know who you're buying from. And then obviously, find someone you can trust to actually lead you down this journey if you decide to use peptides. Find someone that knows what they're talking about. And don't just pick your favorite influencer. Because again, I see these influencers. 25 years old. They're on peptides. They look great. When you're 25, of course you look great.

Go find a 60 year old and they're using peptides, they look good. Go talk to JFK. JFK, he's doing it right. The guy looks great. Go talk to a guy like that. He knows what he's doing. Don't go find your 25 year old. They don't do anything. You're 25, you still look great. You don't have to use that many peptides. So.

Dr Terry (39:10)
You know, on that same ⁓ level, I'm seeing guys come in with low testosterone, ⁓ their hormones are imbalanced, they have burnout. Are you looking at this as an aging thing or is it something fundamentally broken in the way we're living right now?

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:11)
But.

Jason (39:17)
Mm-hmm.

I mean, I think it's both. think over the last 40 years, we've seen a 40 % drop of testosterone in men. Average was 750 for I think the mid 40s, 50s, and now it's 450. I mean, I had a patient come in last week, he is 450. I said, look, you're the average testosterone, but I know you have symptoms. But this is the average for men. Your grandfather had a lot higher testosterone. I mean, it's obesity, right? We now have the diet. Look at pictures from 30 years ago. You did not see obesity crisis, right? Not every, you look at the videos from movies from 90s. People were like,

fit and looked, I guess I shouldn't say like they were musculate Arnold Schwarzenegger, but they didn't look obese. And now this food industry has destroyed us, right? I gotta say it was the best thing they ever did was from a money standpoint, capitalist standpoint, making the food toxic to us really allowed Eli Lilly to take over with GLP-1s. Cause let me tell you, the more toxic food we have, the worse metabolic we are, which then leads to now you need GLP-1s. Hey, we'll sell you the food.

we got the fix. eat too much. we got the fix for that. Don't worry. No. Do we also own food companies? I mean, yeah, we do. We do. But hold on, hold on. Let me tell you what this new product is that we can fix you from the food that you're eating that we gave you. So I think the toxic food we have right. That's big. We also had no Fukushima. We've had exposures to toxins have gone up in the environment. We have way more toxic. The children these days are being exposed to way more. Right. We've seen sperm counts go down in men. ⁓

significantly. We're almost at the precipice. I want to say I was reading something about 20 years from now. The threshold that gets to to make you know to get fertility for women to become pregnant. We're about to hit that threshold of men where now we're low enough the sperm count on average fertility is to become a major issue. We're already starting to see that it's men who are the problem not the women. That's partly because of testosterone. So go back to basic biology here. The light Excel in the testicles is what makes testosterone and intertesticular testosterone.

Spermatol is what makes sperm. If you don't have enough testosterone, you can't make sperm. So Lydic turns on Spermatol. So yeah, if we see a drop in testosterone, what else goes down? Very clearly, it's going to be your sperm count. So we are seeing my, you know, my children when I have them are going to have a lower testosterone than I do, and they're going to have a lower sperm count than I do. And I don't know what that's gonna look like. Again, 21 % a year goes down.

So if my kid gets to 25, 25 % even lower than we have now, it just keeps going down further and further. I don't have a systemic fix for that, Eating healthy is great, but what does that mean, right? How many patients come into your office, Doc, I eat healthy. What does that mean to you? Like what does healthy mean? Are you buying all organic? Or are you just staying away from processed foods? At the minimum, stay away from processed foods. That's why I everyone, just try to stay away out of the middle of that grocery store. Stick to the outside of everything. I don't care if it's organic or not. I'm not saying...

you know, organic isn't great or bad. I'm just saying at the very least, get, you know, whole foods. Stop eating all the garbage that we get in the inside. So yeah, I see them just like you. I see patients come in. My testosterone was 650 when I was 32. I'm now 41 and I thought it was good. I thought my testosterone level was great. 650 was above average. It was good. It was one of the highest I test in the office and I was having afternoon for tea. That's usually the first symptom I see in men and women is this energy in the afternoon goes down and I,

didn't know what to do. My testosterone was, I thought, good. But I started taking testosterone as an experiment. Pretty much every peptide, everything in my office, I've taken myself. Other than estrogen, everything else has been fair game for me, for obvious reasons. And I want to say that I started taking tests and I couldn't believe I was, I mean, needed a nap. I was pretty much getting to the point that during the week I get home at five o'clock, that last patient, I'd say, I'm done. I don't want to be here. I can't, I'm exhausted. I need to be done. And once I started testosterone, about three to four weeks in, when it kicked in,

It was like I wasn't tired. I didn't have, I couldn't believe that was my only symptom I could come up with that I really noticed. And I think that's the, do commonly see patients, they come back tired, fatigue burnt out, motivations down. And typically it's because their testosterone is going down and it's not like it happened overnight, right? Some of these men have been dealing with this for 10 years and they don't know what to do because they go to their doctor and the doctor is, you're, know, Joe, your, testosterone is actually, you know, 350.

I mean, it's on the lower side, but it's totally fine. You're still average, still in the normal range. And I think it frustrates and actually got gas lights, man, because now they're like, well, what's wrong with me? I'm tired and I don't feel good. I don't have a libido. Like I don't have sex anymore. Like I don't know what's wrong with me then. If this is my testosterone is fine. And I think these numbers need to change again, lab values, top and bottom or two and half percent at the bottom, two and half percent at the top are your cutoffs. And that's it. That means 95 % of people are normal. And I think we all know 95%. No one wants to be in the bottom.

5%. No one wants to in the bottom 2.9 % and be like, oh, I'm in the bottom 2.9%. OK, now I can get treated. What happens to the bottom 15 % that have symptoms? So yes, I see lots more testosterone in patients. It's been very clear. In fact, I've now seen more 20-year-olds coming into practice. Now, we're not using testosterone in 20-year-olds. We like to do other things. We obviously diet, nutrition changes. The first thing we tell patients, if your diet, nutrition, sleep on point, it doesn't matter what I do. I can give you testosterone.

but that's not the fix. Like you need to fix other things. Obesity, right? These patients coming in that are, you know, 50 pounds overweight. I mean, I have, I'm sure you have people, you've seen your teenage children coming in here, teenagers or your early 20 year olds who have 30 pounds to lose. Well, let's talk about losing the weight to help raise your testosterone. I went to a course recently on functional endocrinology, right? So it was basically like how to use supplements to raise testosterone.

And one of the core points of when to drive home was not everyone use testosterone, right? You can you can fix sleep. You can fix weight. You can go to the gym. You can take some nutrients. There are things we can do. It doesn't have to always be testosterone. I do not do that. My younger patients now, if you're in your 50s, these things don't work as well. The feedback loops don't work. So you're in your 50s. Maybe testosterone is more appropriate. But my 20 year old, you know, this is the new thing. Testosterone maxine, they call it testosterone, maxine, peptide, max. It's all maxine everything. I don't know where they got this from, but they go blasting testosterone. They're taking

You know, 200, 300 milligrams of testosterone and going as hard as they can. I think social media has really re-engineered what these teenagers and young people are thinking at. They're seeing all these models. Everyone's so ripped. Everyone's got so many muscles and they expect it from themselves. So I think this is also why the experimentation of peptides is coming, right? You're seeing, you know, people around you on your Instagram, who people you follow, you feel like you know them. Now they're Jack, these muscular men. How do I be like that? And I feel like in society, right, for men, it's

More muscles means more important, right? I'm a bigger deal. I have muscles like more respect. And I think what's missing is these people don't understand how that happens. Some of these people on this are running, they're other steroids with this and they're not talking about this. these young impressionable people are saying, well, I can do this. just, know, I need to figure out who to find or where to get this stuff to use the drugs to get there. So I do see testosterone going down in men. I do see it happening. I think it's because nutrition, diet, sleep, exercise.

No one's exercising that they were before. No one's moving and we're eating garbage all day long. And again, we know it's just dropping down every year. So every year we're just seeing lower and lower levels, unfortunately, of testosterone. It's gonna just keep getting worse unless we do something to fix it. Most likely ⁓ full diet changes ⁓ across the country.

Dr. Spencer Baron (46:59)
Hey, Terry, how about that guest we had on that identified that a moisturizer that he was using all over his body was had some hormone blocking agents in it. And he didn't know as soon as he took them off the moisturizer, the guy's testosterone shot up and he was a young kid, like in his 20s. Yeah, so it's there are several factors, not just the food.

Jason (47:17)
Yeah. I mean, even the,

⁓ yeah, even the, ⁓ when you grab receipts, there's, you know, basically blockers and receipts. You touch your, your receipts. I don't grab receipts anymore. I'm just like, I don't need a receipt. You keep it. I'm not touching it. Thank you. I mean, it's simple, right? I mean, it's so crazy. We get nitty gritty. Some people like Cedar oils. Don't take Cedar oils. I'm like, okay, before you get to Cedar oils, let's first maybe take some other ideas out. mean, not that I think that we go so deep in some things.

Dr. Spencer Baron (47:32)
Yeah.

You

Jason (47:46)
and we missed the big picture, right? Maybe for C2Ls, maybe we should go to the gym. Like that's my first step. But before you go to C2Ls, maybe go to the gym a few days a week, do some like squats, do some kind of pull-ups, do something to kind of help your body. And if you want to go down that rabbit hole, I'm all about going down the rabbit hole and getting rid of, I mean, again, you should get rid of the moisturizers that are gonna have the estrogen, they're gonna cause estrogen issues. These hormone disruptors are not good for us. know, even pans, right? Even the pans we eat, the Teflon, like that's not, you know.

Basically a problem with your actions you're get from eating that. So I try to tell people that all of these things we're doing are affecting our bodies. But the bare minimum I want to start doing is what's our diet? Are we eating enough protein? Are you sleeping enough? Are you getting enough natural sunlight? Are you going to the gym? Like those are the simple, simple, simple things. And I think people get so caught up on the very little minute details. And those are important once you've done everything else.

Dr. Spencer Baron (48:19)
Mm.

Jason (48:44)
You know, cutting up C2O is the last thing. I have patients in mind. I won't eat out C2O oils. I'm like, I get it. But you go into the gym even? Like, do you even go to the gym three days a week? Because I think that's more important to me than you worrying about going to eat C2O oils. I'm not saying they don't matter to me. They definitely do. But you aren't doing the bare minimum. You're still eating Twinkies, buddy. You're going to complain about C2O oils? Like, get out of here. I'm confused. You have to like pick your battles here. And I'm sure we all see this right in practice. It's, you know, these patients of ours get stuck on these little details. And you're like,

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:01)
you

Jason (49:12)
No, no, we have to go higher level. Like we have to do this first. Are you drinking enough water? That's minimum stuff. And people forget, water? How much am supposed to drink? I'm like, my God, okay. Well, let's start the bare minimum and then work our way out. And before we get to the other stuff.

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:16)
Right on.

Go ahead, Terry. Were you gonna say something?

Dr Terry (49:29)
Well,

yeah, yeah. So you talked about wire. So let's talk about hydration. And you even do IV hydration. So what are some simple things you hear about people putting the lemon in the water in the morning or just drink enough water, what's enough water pound for stuff like that? And what have you found with even the IVs?

Jason (49:51)
Yeah, so I saw something yesterday on Instagram that was like talking about the electrolyte industry and how massive it is. mean, there is so many, it's billions of dollars in electrolytes. Like everyone wants everyone like, know, Gatorade who kind of started it. And now there are so many companies will sell you the packets. There's liquid IV, there's element T, there's this, there's this. they all have the, like Serena Williams is working with them and he was working with them. You're like, it's overwhelming. I do think that water is important. I think electrolyte is important.

I think it has become this hyped up thing that everyone wants to take, you know, all the electrolytes. think Gatorade did a really good job, right? And they were telling people to drink their Gatorade. Gatorade's full of sugar. So unless you're going to work out and you are sweating on that and you're playing basketball, you're playing some kind of sport where you're sprinting and you're losing a lot of fluids and you need that glucose, sure. For most people sitting down, drinking a Gatorade, it's like drinking a soda. That's just not useful to you. But everyone associates, ⁓ Gatorade electrolytes.

I think we've overhyped electrolytes just like we've overhyped the peptides. I do think electrolytes are important. don't think, don't use them, but people get so focused on them, like, I don't give them electrolytes. I'm going to be, I'm going have a problem. Most people, if you just drink water alone, great. I think electrolytes are great. I used to call it highlight. I get it on Amazon. It's literally, I think potassium chloride. I want to say ⁓ zinc and salt, if I can remember correctly. It's got nothing in it. It's just a little squirt bottle I put them in. I don't remember doing it all the time.

and I work out, I run, I sprint, I do lot of stuff and do I find myself dying if I don't have my electrolytes? No, absolutely not. You're still gonna get hydration. it's not, your body knows what to do intuitively. Like your body's not dumb. ⁓ So I tell patients, know, my goal for my patients that aren't working out that much, if you can get, you know, five to six, eight ounce glasses of water, you're great. But the thing is, let's say you a lot of fruit. If you eat a lot of fruit, you get the water from there. So it's not like you have this hard and fast rule. hate.

giving hard and fast rules for patients because we have some patients that are a follower to the T and tell you, doc, you said this exactly, I'm doing this, I've been doing this last five years because of you, right? We all have those patients. And you know, the patients are like, you to tell them 10 times and they barely, how many, how many glasses of water? I'm doing like three a day. Isn't that what you said? Three glasses of water a day of eight ounces. I'm like, no, it's not what I said. I don't, I think the, the heart, there is no hard and fast rule I have for this because it depends where you live, right? If you live in Florida, hot, sunny, sweating, you need more fluid.

You live in the enchanglement of winter, it's also gonna be dry out. You need a little more water. I think that what is really important, if my biggest thing for my patients is if your lips start to get chapped, you're already dehydrated. At that point, you need a lot more water. So I try to do it by your body's natural signal. If my lips are a little chapped, and I can tell you, I need more fluid. So that's how I kind of run it. I want patients to drink six to eight ounces of eight ounces of glasses of water a day. I think the IVs are great.

I think if you're really dehydrated and IV works, I would tell you a lot of the reason these IV companies make a lot of money is because we're chronically dehydrated. All of us. You know, I can't tell anybody. I see I look at the lips and like you dehydrated. I do all the time. It's like a magic parlor trick. I'm like, look, your lips are chapped. You need water. This is like simple. And people are like, wait, how do you know your lips are chapped? I this is like the first place you lose it right here. ⁓ So, yeah, I think I've these are great people come in. They feel good. We do a lot of treatment IVs. We do high dose vitamin C. We use methylene blue.

⁓ you know, we use, some called we have like a silver IV. We do a lot of things in practice and they're all treatment focused. We very rarely just have some come in and do an IV drip for hydration. If they need it. Sure. If they come to that point to get an IV hydration, they've already failed right themselves. So I do think when you give IVs these IV bars, a lot of people get better because they're under hydrated. You just feel better because you aren't hydrated enough. I mean, I'm not, I can tell you when I get an IV in practice.

I'm not doing treatment. can tell you I know I hydrated really does help me. So I do think that I these are great. I think that when you're over 40, you can't get the nutrients in as easily. So you probably do need to have ⁓ some IV nutrition every so often. People ask me how often do I these I was like, I don't know. I don't do IVs myself very often. So I'm not a good person to ask. I would tell you once a month, probably maximum unless you're treating something. There's no reason to do more than once a month unless you don't drink water. And then

Doing once month isn't enough. You gotta do it way more frequently if you're not drinking enough fluids, right? There's, you know, big things in practice is creatine, a lot. What does creatine do? Hydrates the cell. That's what we want, hydration at the cell level. Creatine, that's why everyone gets bloated. The cell gets a little bigger. It keeps a little more water and everything gets hydrated. And I push that because that will help improve hydration as well as electrolytes. So I'm always saying electrolytes and more importantly, even for me, is creatine, because creatine can bring in that water and hold it better there than anything else I have.

So I'm a big creatine fan, really big. Anyone that wants to be on it, right, it helps the brain, helps your muscles, helps your energy. When you hydrate the cell, it works better. So I'm big on that, I'm bullish on that. I think, again, electrolytes are great. I'm not a everyone has to be electrolytes. I'm sure people come out there and that's all they talk about is electrolytes. great. And I'm not saying they aren't necessary, but I keep going back to it's, know, fix the big problems, right? Are you drinking enough water? Electrolytes are great, but if you're not drinking enough water, electrolytes are secondary to that.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:09)
So if you, most people that are listening or that are out there or our patients, they're run down, they're inflamed, low energy, and they're just trying to recover, but they're not. So hydration was great as one of the three things that I was gonna ask you that somebody should do actually before jumping into all the advanced therapies. Is there two other, two, three other things or something off the top of your head?

Jason (55:31)
I mean sleep,

what are we doing for sleep? Yeah, like sleep is number two for me. And then exercise, are you moving? Right? Your patients are tired right now and get their tired and run down. But believe it or not, exercising more and sleeping more usually improve both those things. Working out more improves testosterone levels. We talked about low testosterone, easy fix, start exercising more. You know, and if you're not, let's look at sleep also, what's sleep? You know, I think people chronically are under sleeping and we see that a lot in our practice and they don't...

It's not always maybe they have poor sleep if they're not shutting down at night, right? You have your people who are nonstop working and they're just up all night. Oh, but the kids to 11 o'clock I have to be up at six in the morning or five in the morning. You're like, well, that's six hours of sleep. Five hours of sleep. How do you think that's going to affect your body when you're not sleeping enough and you're chronically under sleeping that sleep? We know that sleep goes forward. It's not like you just one day in the next year. Fine. It can compound. We have studies showing testosterone levels lower as you get chronically under sleep, under sleep.

So I think those are two huge things. I think the other thing I put on there would be eat more whole foods. I mean, you've got to stop eating all these processed junk that we have out there. always, I think peptides are great. And in practice, when I talk about peptides all day long, I can speak about them. The thing is in practice, it's really, you come in, we do blood work. What are your iron levels? What are your hormone levels? You know, we live to the basics. First, what's your diet? What's your nutrition? Are you exercising? Peptides always are great, but it's always a second tier.

I have to first fix the bottom simple things because I can't out-peptide your poor diet, your poor nutrition, your poor exercise. They can't be fixed. You don't have iron. Guess what? There's no peptide for that. I have to give you iron, right? There are a few peptides in men that can help raise testosterone. It's not like they don't exist. They aren't really in women. But first off, what can we do to help raise your testosterone before bringing peptides? Like what have we discussed? Other options. So when these people come in, it's like, what can we do? Do we have to bring meditation in? I mean, you you do a yoga practice.

We try to find things. Look, our ancestors didn't have peptides. They didn't have testosterone and they lived and did just fine. Now again, they died earlier because they didn't have antibiotics, but they still functioned. I know that we're in a stage in an ⁓ area of medicine in life. We can help these patients live longer and feel better. And I think peptides are great, great addition. I think people just overhype all of longevity stuff without giving them the bare minimum first, right? You have to get back to the basics.

It's always basics first with me and then we can later. I always tell patients one thing at a time, especially when you're doing peptide medicine or anything, I'm not giving them 10 things at once. Especially because when we do all this stuff, I'm gonna feel good long term, doc. I don't wanna take this stuff for six months. I don't feel good for the next six years, 10, 20 years, not for the next just month and then I quit. And I think this is what we tell people, right? We want long term healthcare. We don't wanna see you once and then have you leave. I'm not an acute, I'm not an orthopedic surgeon doing your surgery or your heart surgeon and then bye, I won't see you again.

I'm someone, and then just like you two, this is long-term. We expect patients to be with us for years. And if we do, we have to give them the knowledge so can take care of themselves when we're not around them.

Dr. Spencer Baron (58:36)
Terry, do we have time for rapid fire? Are we gonna really test him to see if he could give one word answers?

Dr Terry (58:38)
yeah, I want this. yeah.

Jason (58:39)
Yeah.

Go for it.

Yeah, it's gonna be hard.

Dr. Spencer Baron (58:48)
All right, you're ready. We're nearing the end of the show. We got five questions for you that we call our rapid fire questions. we will try not to get hung up on your answer, which is usually fun, but here we go. Question number one, are you ready? You ready? Okay. Do you feel we're moving toward a world where medicine doesn't treat disease?

Jason (58:55)
Okay.

Dr. Spencer Baron (59:14)
Okay. Good. Wow, that was you passed test number one. You basically started a traditional medicine, started in traditional medicine and clearly saw gaps. What's something in modern healthcare that still frustrates you every single damn day?

Jason (59:21)
Hahaha

Symptom-based care.

Dr. Spencer Baron (59:40)
nice. All right. Outside of medicine, when you're not fixing people, what's something that you do that has absolutely nothing to do with health but keeps you sane?

Jason (59:55)
⁓ exercise is that count as not health. Okay. Lots of exercise.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:00:01)
Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

I love that the three or four things that you mentioned earlier about hydration and exercise and so on. These are things that don't even need science-based background or research. It's just do it. So I appreciate your thoughts on that too. Now, if you were stuck on a deserted island and only could listen to one song, what song would that be?

Jason (1:00:26)
Hmm.

I'd have to say in my playlist right now, I think the song Die For It by Ryan Hurd, it's a new song, it's the only song I've probably listened to like a thousand times in the last year. So that'd probably be it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:00:50)
Okay,

you know Dr. Terry and I are gonna go pull that up on our playlist. Die for it? Okay, you got it, man.

Jason (1:00:55)
Yeah, die for it by Ryan Hurd. Yes, you will. Yeah,

Dr Terry (1:00:58)
Die for it.

Jason (1:00:59)
it's basically about it's basically about being ⁓ in married and knowing no matter what, you just have to keep going all the time forever because that's how it works. So, yeah.

Dr Terry (1:00:59)
All right.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:01:10)
Yeah, all right. Now, last question. You've seen both sides, traditional medicine and cutting edge longevity care. But at the end of the day, what do you actually do? What do you actually believe it means to live a healthy life?

Dr Terry (1:01:10)
die for it. All right.

Jason (1:01:27)
Exactly we've talked about diet, nutrition, exercise. That's it. If you live under the island, that's the three things you know you've got to do. mean, yeah, that's pretty simple. Castaway. mean, Tom Hanks made it all the way to the end. He was moving. He was eating his coconuts, you know, and he was getting lots of sun. so I mean, he did everything and he made it. So we can all do it. Those are the three things I think everyone should be doing. And that's it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:01:50)
That's right.

Dr Terry (1:01:54)
Yeah, but

he had Wilson.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:01:54)
Love it,

Jason (1:01:56)
He had Wilson. Well, you know what? We can make you a Wilson too, Doc. We can find you one. I can get a volleyball sent over to you. I can put my hand, I can cut it open. I can put a nice blood on there for you too.

Dr Terry (1:02:02)
Yeah,

I'm into that. I think you should send it to me and I'll put it up on my office because I need a Wilson in my life. But you have your boat and don't forget you have your boat people so that's important to you as well. There you go.

Jason (1:02:10)
Okay, I will.

I've Bup Boys. Yeah, that's it. Bup Boys.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:02:16)
The both boys.

Dr. Pensick, that's been fantastic, man. Thank you. You're just a huge amount of information and I appreciate you clearing up a lot of that craziness out there. Thanks for being on the show, man.

Jason (1:02:29)
Of

Dr Terry (1:02:30)
And I love your

Jason (1:02:31)
Thanks, Docs.

Dr Terry (1:02:31)
energy. Keep it up, Doc, because you're helping a lot of people out there.

Dr. Spencer Baron (1:02:35)
yeah,

Jason (1:02:35)
Appreciate it. Appreciate it gentlemen. Thank you.