Is Microdosing a Breakthrough—or a Dangerous Trend? - Microdosing Coach, Alicia Vera Garcia

MICRODOSING: BREAKTHROUGH OR DANGEROUS TREND? | Alicia Vera Garcia

What if the thing millions of people are searching for isn't another medication, supplement, or productivity hack—but a completely different relationship with their own mind?

Microdosing psychedelics has quietly moved from the fringes into mainstream conversations about anxiety, burnout, ADHD, depression, creativity, trauma recovery, and human performance. Entrepreneurs swear by it. Therapists are studying it. Critics call it hype. Supporters call it life-changing.

So what's really happening?

In this episode of the Crackin' Backs Podcast, we sit down with Alicia Vera Garcia, founder of The Microdosing Coach, ACT therapist, and one of Europe's leading voices in psychedelic education and microdosing guidance, to explore the science, psychology, controversy, and deeper philosophy behind one of the fastest-growing movements in modern wellness.

Together we unpack:

* What microdosing actually is—and what it isn't

* How psychedelics may affect the brain, nervous system, and behavior

* The biggest misconceptions and risks people rarely discuss

* Microdosing vs medication, therapy, and wellness culture

* Why so many high performers are turning to psychedelics

* The surprising connection between healing, discomfort, and self-awareness

* Whether microdosing is truly transformational—or simply another shortcut people are chasing

Most importantly, Alicia challenges us to ask a deeper question:

Are we trying to optimize ourselves… or reconnect with ourselves?

Whether you're curious about psychedelics, skeptical of the hype, interested in mental health, or simply searching for a more meaningful approach to healing, this conversation will leave you thinking long after the episode ends.

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Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:01.053)
Well, today's conversation may challenge everything you thought you knew about healing, mindset, and human potential. Is microdosing psychedelics a dangerous shortcut, an untapped therapeutic tool, or simply a mirror exposing the parts of ourselves we've been avoiding? Today we sit down with Alicia Vera Garcia. We've been

looking forward to this to explore the science, psychology and controversy and and the deeper meaning behind one of the fastest growing movements in modern wellness. Welcome to the show, Alicia.

Alicia Vera Garcia (00:39.604)
thank you so much, Doctor Spencer, Doctor Terry. I feel so honored to be invited by you.

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:46.995)
Well first y where are you broadcasting from? You are where now? What location?

Alicia Vera Garcia (00:53.64)
I'm in Amst Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Europe.

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:57.555)
Beautiful, beautiful. So I first want to start out by asking you, you know, for someone completely new to this world of of microdosing, when when people hear that word, they often imagine hallucinations or recreational drug use, you know, but s especially here in South Florida, right? Scientifically though, and psychologically and practically, what what is microdosing? What does it actually mean to you and the public?

Alicia Vera Garcia (01:26.454)
Well we refer to microdosing as the practice where you take very low doses of a psychedelic. For example, magic mushrooms, this could also be the case with ayahuasca, and these are such low quantities, it's called a sub perceptual dose, so you don't get to experience th those psychoactive effects, but you do get the benefits from microdosing with it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:57.278)
Hm. So what's actually happening in the brain and in the nervous system? you know, are these b behavior patterns can you can you tell the difference? Can you feel it? Is it you know, explain a little bit more detail because you know, people that we we are aware of, from entrepreneurs to trauma survivors, they're all exploring that. So what it what what are they feeling?

Alicia Vera Garcia (02:22.172)
this could be very personal what you are feeling. and yeah, how does it work? well a a few th things happen because they bind to the to the serotonin receptors, psychedelics bind to the serotonin receptors and they can act

like a natural enhancer for your mood. So that's one of the many things it can do, but it's very subtle. Very subtle. When you take a microdosing you can see it as a vitamin with extra benefits. it's that subtle but yeah you you do notice effects and like I said it's very personal but it can

be for you can use it for a better mood, for more creativity, productivity, for

awareness about behavioral patterns, your emotions, your thoughts. So it had it has a wide range of effects and it's not like one size fits all and you take it and it's like a paracetamol. You take a pill and then it has a direct effect. It really depends also on your intention with it. So it's not only the the psychedelic you are taking but it depends

On the set setting, your intention, and also your own work, what you do with it. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well.

Dr. Spencer Baron (04:02.033)
no, you are. I just have questions on top of that because I'm trying to imagine, you know, our average listener thinking, what if you're in a in a not so wonderful mood? What if you're in a bad mood and you take and you do a microdose? Does it become b bigger and bolder? Or is it something that you need to be guided to maintain or transition to a better mood than being in a bad mood?

Alicia Vera Garcia (04:30.132)
Yeah, that's that's an interesting question. well first of all you will need to find your own personal dose, your optimum dose, and this is very personal because some people are more sensitive than other people. so you need to make sure that it's your dose. And you if you are on your dose, so in general it will improve your mood. but it also depends on the mindset when you are taking it.

So in general, if you are in your sweet spot, the the chances are very high that you will be in a better mood, you will experience more flow and you can connect more with your own emotions, but when people overdose, what happens is the opposite, and then indeed certain emotions and feelings can get amplified. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (05:28.243)
Does someone I mean, does someone just start taking a microdose or is it something that you would need to be trained on how to manage your emotions prior to the dose or what have you? I mean, is it something that you facil like you yourself, do you are you a facilitator of that?

Alicia Vera Garcia (05:49.606)
I am. I am a facilitator. I'm also a psychosocial therapist. So I also have

Tools like Act, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, Voice Dialogue. yeah, and people can start by themselves. You can well, here in Europe you can buy it online. truffles are legal here in the Netherlands, and so you can buy it yourself. But if it's new to you and you're not doing it out of curiosity, but because of a condition or something you would like to address, then I really recommend.

some guidance from a professional.

Dr Terry (06:31.628)
I have a quick question 'cause you said f how th how do they f you have to have the person find their dose. How do you find their dose? How d what does that mean? 'Cause like you just said, Amsterdam is known for you can order anything you want, you know, so if if if if if somebody wants to order something, how do they know what they need and you know, they don't have the more' better attitude.

Dr. Spencer Baron (06:31.826)
So

Alicia Vera Garcia (06:55.564)
Yeah, well that's where people like me come in and s yeah, we as facilitators or practitioners we can help you find out what the most appropriate substance would be for your intention. We screen you, we do a thorough screening if microdosing is safe for you, and also in this moment in your life.

So we go through different substances. We choose substance, but we also help you with finding your protocol, finding this optimum dose. And how do we do that? How does this work? Well, this is one of the most asked questions about microdosing from clients as well. And in theory, it's very simple. But in the practice, this can become a little bit complicated because it's that subtle.

So in theory it's very simple. If you don't feel anything, you go up in dose and it depends on the the substance what you add.

until you and you keep adding up until you come to a certain point, well you feel the effect very subtle, and this is different for everybody. But in general, people say I feel more in the flow, more at ease. and I recommend people if you find that dose to stay on that dose for several days, but then try out a higher dose. So go over the edge just a little bit to know for

Sure. And when you are overdosing, instead of the microdosing giving you the benefits, you will start experiencing challenges. So stronger, not so pleasant emotions like anxiety.

Alicia Vera Garcia (08:50.708)
sometimes also more depression, irritability, it's a clear sign that you are my that you are overdosing. And also instead of giving it the microdosing that gives you focus or mental clarity, it will give you the opposite. So

That sharpness in your head or problems with speech, not difficulties finding your words, for example. So these are clear signs, but is it's that subtle that people can't always tell, am I in a good mood because of the the weather, the sun is shining, or I'm doing fun activities, or is it because of the microdosing? So this process costs time, several weeks, two up to four.

Weeks and then you have figured it out more or less with also the help of a professional.

Dr. Spencer Baron (09:51.431)
I can you does could someone plateau in their dosing and then you s suggest that they go up a little bit, but if they've already gone up in their dose, is it a good idea to maybe take a week off or a day or a month or something like that so their body desensitizes? Is that suggested? No.

Alicia Vera Garcia (10:12.32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's indeed suggested. with microdosing, it depends on the substance, but with most substances you don't microdose every day, you have a protocol, and it's always recommended between cycles to pause for several weeks. And this is to to prevent tolerance, but also because it's a good idea after a cycle to stop, reflect and integrate what the microdosing has.

Been showing you. And also for safety reasons, because we don't know from studies, there hasn't been a lot of research done on this. There might be some indications that it could not that's not healthy for your.

Well it's for your heart because we also have serotonin receptors there that it's not healthy to microdose the whole time. So it's for safety reasons as well.

Dr. Spencer Baron (11:14.994)
What's a cycle like? Like w is it a a a a week cycle? I mean a a month long cycle? H what what is it that you typically suggest that you refer to as a cycle?

Alicia Vera Garcia (11:30.088)
it depends on the substance and the protocol. And normally it will be between four up to ten weeks. And then you pause for several weeks and if you want to continue you can pick it up again. yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (11:49.001)
So let me ask you, because microdosing, psychedelics, you know, psilocybin, the mushrooms and all that, all the way to now the the big hype is peptides. I mean, where do you as a practitioner, as a wellness practitioner, draw the line, whether it's a healing tool or something for spiritual reasons, or is it just social media hype? Because now you get all the people that have no idea what to do, they're all

They're all on social media hyping everything.

Alicia Vera Garcia (12:21.334)
Yes, indeed. Well this is one of the

the most difficult parts of my work because it's being hyped a lot and a lot of promises being made or claims a lot of research being done which I really encourage only people read about it and have high expectations about microdosing and they read all those miracles happening with microdosing and

Could be the case indeed, but more often it's it's a messy process more often, and it's not like it will guarantee you healing or it will guarantee you certain outcomes, and this is the the most difficult part of my job to manage expectations, and yeah, it's often a matter of

People starting microdosing because they have certain conditions or things they want to improve.

And they are being so focused on a certain result and sometimes microdosing is so subtle and mysterious that it comes it comes through different ways. And then I see it as my responsibility and my role to to manage those expectations and also to help people stay open for the experience.

Alicia Vera Garcia (14:01.196)
Stay open with an open mindset and microdosing works best, not through the cognitive layer, but f it needs another entrance, an entrance in our heart, in our bodies, and this is really different than we are used to.

Dr. Spencer Baron (14:19.079)
So lem let me just be clear on microdosing in your specialty, is it only psilocybin or is it is there other th is it other other than the mushrooms or other than is there something else that you would suggest as microdosing you as a professional?

Alicia Vera Garcia (14:40.588)
yes, well I work with different substances. I work with psilocybin from truffles, with one P LSD, that's an analog from LSD, Kaki from ayahuasca, and I recently started working with Amanita, Amanita muscaria. I don't know if if it rings a bell. No.

Dr. Spencer Baron (15:02.279)
Explain that one.

Alicia Vera Garcia (15:03.628)
when I say it's the the red mushroom with the white dots, then you probably know what mushroom I'm talking about. Yeah?

Dr. Spencer Baron (15:13.347)
Interesting. Why is that different from the the typical one or the the one that most people are familiar with?

Alicia Vera Garcia (15:21.834)
Yeah, wow. Well, I could do a whole podcast only on this mushroom. It's a really interesting mushroom and very different from the other ones. well the the amanita mmm it binds to the GABA receptors, not directly to the serotonin receptors. So this is very different from the from other magic mushrooms.

GABA is known for regulating your nervous system. And what I found out, what I find really interesting with this mushroom, and until recently, I bought these stories about amanita, amanita being toxic, amanita being deadly. So that's why it took me so long to try the amanita. And this is not this is not true, it's not deadly, but you need to know how to work with this mushroom.

But it's very interesting because this is, as far as I know, this is the only microdosing substance that works that directly for chronic pain, chronic illnesses like fibromyalgia, nerve pain. And this I found very interesting because I was also working with with clients with these illnesses.

And other substances I found that they were not that effective, and that's why I started exploring this. well, it's it's also a really beautiful mushroom to see. and it's also known from from the tale of Alice in Wonderland, so I I really feel connected to this mushroom because of my name.

Dr Terry (17:07.662)
there you go.

Dr. Spencer Baron (17:07.943)
That's right. Yeah. Very good. So all right, let me a let me ask you a patient a patient comes in or a person or patient comes into your your office and they t w what are you asking them? They they want to do microdosing. What are you asking them and how are you determining their their the plan what you're gonna

suggest to them what you're going to tell them. And then if you could also comment on I under I understand that that you also blend in this ACT therapy, acceptance and commitment there. I think that's really important as a cognitive behavior therapy. So if you can kinda share an experience, that would be great.

Alicia Vera Garcia (17:38.612)
Mm.

Alicia Vera Garcia (17:54.561)
Yeah. Well it's it's not that clients walk in into my office, it starts with the first moment of contact when they reach out to me through mail or whatsapp or whatever. And that's where our journey already starts.

whether they continue with me for the microdosing but this is already some kind of energetical exchange and and the first contact already gives me information about them so if if if there's a match I also do a screening beforehand because it's not for everybody. I think it's it's it's safe for most people.

But I do a thorough screening so and if we decide to work with each other, then the first session is always about the practical aspects about microdosing. So I sent them an intake form and during the first session

I I ask them about well their personal situation, conditions, their intention. And one of the questions that gives me the most information about possible substance is their intention. What do they want to achieve with the microdosing? What do they need help for?

But it's not like one substance is, for example, good for HDHD or for depression or anxiety. These could be several substances, but it really depends on the client what it wants to achieve. Sometimes it seems like it's pretty clear, I want more energy. But when you start asking questions about their intention, it consists of different layers.

Dr. Spencer Baron (19:47.004)
Very, very interesting. You mentioned ADHD. That I think that's fantastic 'cause I would have never thought that. And unfortunately in the United States there are so many kids excuse me, adults as well on on Adderall, on on all the ADHD medications. So if somebody has age ADHD, wha ha what do you what are you talking to? How are you

Alicia Vera Garcia (20:19.275)
Yeah.

Well I I don't like to put any labels or or put people in boxes. So I try to to keep an open mind and first listen very carefully. some people indeed with HDHD they have the desire to experience more focus, more mental clarity, less distraction. then it could be the case that we go for Silasibin.

But I also had a woman, a teacher

And with HDHD. And when I asked her what what what would you like to experience the most, then she told me I would like to experience more self-love. So then we went for the for the copy from ayahuasca because this one is a heart opener. She wanted to connect more with her intuition, and for the HDHD part, I have another it's not a magic mushroom, but

In the effects I consider it magic but it's not psychoactive and it's called lion's mane. It's not it sounds a ring, yeah, yeah, you heard about lion's mane, yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (21:30.139)
Yeah. Very very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Familiar. yeah, yeah. the ACT therapy. Talk about that. I think that's so interesting w that you do with the microdosing.

Dr Terry (21:35.757)
yeah.

Alicia Vera Garcia (21:44.833)
Yeah. Yeah, it's really interesting. And I only found out about ACT when I already worked with microdosing and I have done my own personal work with psychedelics. I heard about ACT, it was during my coaching training, and everything I read about ACT

It it reflected a lot of principles, the things I learned with my personal work with psychedelics. So ACT stands for acceptance and commitment therapy, and one of the lessons of for me it was ayahuasca. I started working with ayahuasca for my own personal healing.

And one of the the lessons was that I I needed to to connect with my emotions, with my intuition, instead of trying to avoid my emotions. And this really sounds cliche, but this was one of the lessons I was on survival mode for so many years. so I developed PTSD, depression, I had anxiety attacks, panic attacks, and this was one of the things I

I needed to learn to go towards the emotions, and I I saw this also in act. It's about accepting difficult emotions, feelings, trying to welcome them, also welcome difficult thoughts, physical sensations.

And with all that, trying to live a rich and meaningful life according to your values and take action upon it. So in ACT, all the all the well lessons from psychedelics are in it, and ACT is often used as a model for psychedelic assisted therapy.

Alicia Vera Garcia (23:43.4)
It it it works beautifully together because it's not only the substance, it's also what do you do with it. And if you have the whole package then the microdosing will be more effective.

Dr. Spencer Baron (23:57.521)
So act that that's a that's a cool acronym for acceptance and commitment therapy. Can you just give like a little example of how you would apply that to a patient or a person, you know, how you would apply that in the 'cause it it sounds great, but what what are you asking or telling them or or sharing with them?

Alicia Vera Garcia (24:20.01)
Yeah. Well it's it's not only about talking. I I don't like talking therapies in in this sense because it's about experiencing. So this is how how I work with ACT with exercises. an example, if

If somebody with anxiety or depression starts working with me, and often this is a matter of identifying yourself with your thoughts, so there's a lot of fusion with thoughts. Sometimes it's also about what I said before: allowing emotions and feelings. And if this comes up with microdosing, the microdosing can already help with being

More open, even if this means for less pleasant experiences, but being more open and identifying less with emotions, so helping you with gaining a bit of distance with your thoughts. And with ACT, I try to help.

With the part that the microdosing is not addressing enough. So I try to seek the collaboration with the microdosing to help this client further with the themes. And I do that with mindfulness. With ACT, I also work with voice dialogue. It's also a very powerful tool. It's working with parts.

Dr. Spencer Baron (25:58.863)
What kind dialogue? Say it again.

Alicia Vera Garcia (26:01.099)
It's called voice dialogue.

Dr. Spencer Baron (26:03.984)
G give me an example of that now 'cause I'm not quite sure, like what would you ask a a a client or patient?

Alicia Vera Garcia (26:07.637)
Yeah.

Alicia Vera Garcia (26:11.02)
What would I ask? For example, some people have a very powerful controlling part, and this is the part if you're going to microdose or use a full dose of a psychedelic, it's not the helping part. but for some people the controlling part is very strong and it's on the the passenger or on the on the wheel of the bus. So it's it's a dominant part, and sometimes

People find out okay, this part is not helping me in daily life, and there are more suppressed parts, for example, the part that wants to trust and give up control and live more in the moment, trusting that everything will be fine. Then I start talking to those parts.

And to see if we can give more space to the part that wants to live more from the heart and less from the mind.

Dr. Spencer Baron (27:15.984)
You know, Terry, before you ask y your question. Sorry, man, I want I w I this is fascinating because I've had several over the last what twenty year of my forty years in practice, I've noticed a lot of patients that female young in their mid-twenties to mid-thirties with irritable bowel syndrome.

Alicia Vera Garcia (27:18.796)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (27:41.952)
and their inability to have bowel movements for I mean, this is absolutely wild. I mean, for up to six weeks to eight weeks.

They haven't moved their bowels and they're impacted. I had one one young beautiful young w woman, well, young young to me, I'm sixty-five. She she was in in her late twenties and said that she ended up having to get s surgery to remove the impacted fecal matter from the intestine. So my point in asking you a lot of this is emotionally generated, you know, anorexia, bulimia, anal fixation, you're you're

your opportunity to hold it, that's the control you practice on yourself. Because nobody else can control that but you. And how how would you approach somebody like that?

Alicia Vera Garcia (28:38.08)
Yeah, beautiful. Very interesting and beautifully said. I I believe that as well. So I see microdosing as a holistic tool.

Sometimes people come to me with very physical symptoms, like in the case of cluster headache. I've had two clients with cluster headache, and they were on all kinds of fora on the internet saying reading their cytosbin can help with cluster headache. So this was the reason they came to me.

But what I saw, especially in in this last case, it it it is a woman in her 60s. this was the first time for her trying psychedelics, and she experienced a long cluster of those headaches. So she was in a long cluster for already half a year.

So she was in a lot of pain, physical pain, but also it cost her a lot of stress dealing with those headaches.

and it's called also sometimes suicide headaches because the impact can be so big. So we started working on the practical sides of the microdosing and she started up and I think in two weeks her attacks got diminished also the the duration of the cluster headache attacks and she didn't need her oxygen machine

Alicia Vera Garcia (30:19.158)
Anymore. Yeah, okay, that's that was already great. But then there was more space to explore what's behind those headaches. And we found out that there were several layers, and also how do you want to call it a spiritual one or a symbolical one? Because in the case of cluster headache, it's for a lot of people being in control.

and also that the nervous system had to carry so much during a lot of time. So and we started exploring these topics for her, these themes, and indeed we started working on it, on calming the nervous system and it improved even more.

Dr. Spencer Baron (31:09.422)
I would've never thought.

Alicia Vera Garcia (31:09.984)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Terry (31:13.579)
You know y you know what Spence, one thing I'm hearing while I'm listening to this is the first thing that comes to mind, I don't think and you said it, I don't think doctors listen. You know, I think we're I think we're on such a schedule of seeing so many patients in such a short amount of time and they come in, they have an appointment for fifteen minutes or twenty minutes and we try and solve their problem, we try and do whatever we can when all maybe we need to do is listen and get past those first

couple layers 'cause we're so trained with even men are trained with when our wives taught to us, we're trained to problem solve. And you know, it's like when all the our wives tell us, I just want you to listen, you know and and

Dr. Spencer Baron (31:52.944)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (31:57.808)
Yeah.

Dr Terry (32:00.426)
So as especially men doctors w we we just want we don't listen to get even past one layer, let alone even to the layer. And one of the things you're telling me, B, is microdosing is a tool, but it it's just a tool, it's not the solution. Sometimes the solution is listening to find out what the right tool is necessary to use. So thank you for so much for that 'cause I'm guilty of that and I you know, I I even thought of some patients while you're talking going, you know what, I think I'm missing some

something and it had nothing to do with being adjusted or a supplement. I I think there's something deeper there. So thank you for that. One thing I did do is I did do a a little research I and I looked for the top seven things that people search the internet for when it comes to microdosing. So I want to rile those off to you. it's anxiety, depression, ADHD, burnout, creativity, product productivity, and trauma.

Of those seven, what do you think is the most misunderstood?

Alicia Vera Garcia (33:06.796)
Ooh, most misunderstood. difficult question. Yeah.

Dr Terry (33:11.585)
Well, I don't want to give you something easy.

wanna listen and get to that lair.

Alicia Vera Garcia (33:20.724)
Yeah, wow. Well I I would say that they are all misunderstood and yeah it yeah and sometimes there's also an overlap, you know, you cannot distinguish sometimes depression from anxiety because they are all related.

And maybe this is an expression, symptoms are an expression of something wider and deeper. And I also have seen that that when you start exploring themes, people come with symptoms.

When they start microdosing and their lives improves, it's not anymore about the symptoms. It's about it's not like okay, now I I healed my depression, but it's more okay, I live more from the heart, I connect more with my emotions. or I started playing the guitar again. I'm being more present as a father. So I I yeah, I don't like the the angle of of symptoms and putting labels but more.

yeah what what what are you dealing with and where would you like to go in what direction and what would it entail for you to live a rich and meaningful life sometimes even with the symptoms

Dr. Spencer Baron (34:52.645)
Terry I Terry, I think that is s so enlightening that you had looked up the more con I had no idea. See I'm I'm so symptom oriented. I had no idea. Creativity and productivity. I didn't even think is that what do people go to you for that? Like I want to be more productive.

Dr Terry (34:52.776)
see I love that. I love the answer.

Alicia Vera Garcia (35:13.108)
yes, but most of my clients do have a therapeutic component in their intention. Because the the people that do it out of curiosity and they don't have any condition and any mental health condition, they are well, how do you say it in English? They are they're not suffering from any condition or symptoms then they try it by themselves.

Dr Terry (35:38.731)
Mm. Right.

Alicia Vera Garcia (35:39.818)
Yeah. So and and out of curiosity, can I ask you a question, Dr. Terry and Doctor Spencer? Have you tried psychedelics before?

Dr. Spencer Baron (35:40.197)
I didn't even think of that.

Dr. Spencer Baron (35:46.607)
Go for it.

Dr Terry (35:46.829)
Of course.

Dr Terry (35:52.073)
I have not, but I'm fascinated with it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (35:54.403)
Yeah. I have not either. But I gotta tell ya, forty three years ago I was so curious. I had three roommates in Tech in at at Texas Chiropractic College. Two of them

said, would you guys would would myself and and the other roommate watch us while we do mushrooms? So we we went we lost one guy on the we were on the b on the beach at night. We lost one guy. We found another guy sleeping in in someone's pickup truck. Like what what w you know it was we unfortunately and I was always so curious because those two guys were very bright. And I always thought that that mushrooms

enhanced the intelligence and well, there it is the creativity and an ability to reach deep into your mind to think things out that you wouldn't normally.

Dr Terry (36:42.593)
There you go.

Dr Terry (36:48.939)
Now I will well I will be honest, you asked the question, have we ever intentionally tried it? So back in college we were at a ski event with the ski club and there was a pizza that I ate the pizza

And all of a sudden I go out on the ski resort and about fifteen minutes later I'm starting to ski down the result and all of a sudden purple trees are running across the ski resort and and all these colors got really bright and I had to sit down and I was freaking out. Well it turned out some guy put psychedelic mushrooms on the pizza and didn't tell anybody. So have I tried it? Yes.

Did I like it? No, 'cause it scared the crap out of me. so I b did I do it voluntarily? No.

Dr. Spencer Baron (37:36.353)
I

Alicia Vera Garcia (37:43.756)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (37:44.317)
my god, Alicia, I gotta tell you, one of the reasons why I haven't tried it is because now that Terry reminded me, I am valet parking cars at a very exclusive place. A buddy of ours come drives up who was off work that night. I was 18 years old, and he had a bag of brownies.

And I ju me at my appetite, man, I just wolfed them down. He goes, Do you want any brown? I go, Yeah, man. So I took like two of you know. And I go, Why is it why is it so crunchy and tastes so herbal like? And he goes, there was pot in those brown

I had never smoked weed in my entire life. So what I experienced kinda was not pleasant. It was I I I I went through paranoia. I went through every the s next stages, everything was hilarious. I'm still parking cars, by the way, for at this club. And then I became very tired, so and hungry. So I just did I it wasn't too happy about all that. So that's probably why I never tried it. I just broke out in a sweat thinking about

Dr Terry (38:46.54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Alicia Vera Garcia (38:53.846)
Yeah. Well

Dr Terry (38:56.919)
So so yes, I I'm fascinated to try it f somewhere down the road and that brings me to my next question. When when people have been on our show talking about everything from Ibaine, ayahuasca and other stuff, the the the one theme is you have to do it the right way. You have to do the homework before, you have to do the homework afterwards, you have to do it the right way. What does doing it the right way actually mean?

Dr. Spencer Baron (38:57.239)
I would I yeah. Yeah I don't know.

Alicia Vera Garcia (39:24.8)
Yeah, I don't like the the words right or wrong but I I know what you are referring to. because you can use these these psychedelics recreational. You know, it can be it can be fun. only there are a few things or terrifying in your case. Yeah. And that's why you are asking how do you do this the right way? Hm? Yeah, for for maximum chance of

Dr Terry (39:40.521)
Or terrifying.

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:41.807)
Hey.

Dr Terry (39:49.133)
Correct.

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:49.817)
Yeah. yeah.

Alicia Vera Garcia (39:54.928)
of a pleasant experience. Yeah. Well no

Dr Terry (39:56.462)
Right. Yeah, green trees right in front of you is not pleasant or purple trees.

Alicia Vera Garcia (40:02.398)
No, no. Well w when I started it was also recreational, and it there was no fun part for me because I was carrying a lot of trauma. But knowing what I know now, there are a few things you can do to well, if possible, make it a more pleasant experience. there are three three things that are pretty decisive for how your journey goes, and I I don't like the word trip. Trip is used

in a more recreational setting and I like to use the word journey psychedelic journey. Well there are three three things you can do. Pay attention to dose very important. Set and setting. So the the the dose is very personal. Some people can eat well 20 grams of truffles. I personally I'm very sensitive. I only use for for a full dose I use 10 or 15

grams but I don't want to overwhelm people so people with a sensitive nervous system and also people dealing with anxiety are more sensitive so I give them a lower dose on the other hand I also have clients with HDHD OCD in general they need higher doses so you really need to adjust that dose so that's one thing it's about

Set. This is the whole well, the mindset you are bringing into the experience. So if you're doing a full dose and you are already a little bit frightened about doing it, you are bringing anxiety, then it could be that that gets enlarged during your journey, and with microdosing, it's more subtle.

It's about the right setting. Well, most people start in a recreational setting and it's not that that's wrong, but a lot of factors can influence in your experience. So if you if you want to do this the right way you pay attention to setting and it's not that you cannot do it at home, but try to do it or by yours well, the first time I might you might want to have somebody with you, an experienced

Alicia Vera Garcia (42:28.334)
Person, but make sure that you feel safe, you feel safe with the right people. maybe not listening to that's what I did one time in the beginning. I watched MTV, and there was a song of Michael Jackson, and the word catastrophe was in it. I really felt it in my whole soul, my bones. The word catastrophe came in very intense. so and this decided.

How my journey went. So you can get into anxiety. So these are the three things you need to pay attention to. And if it's new for you and you are suffering from a mental health condition or another condition, it might be a good idea to find a practitioner that can help you with those things.

Dr Terry (43:22.957)
If if somebody's wants to try it on their own and and orders it, what are some of the red flags they need to pay attention to?

Alicia Vera Garcia (43:33.354)
Red flags, you mean warnings whether it's it's a good idea to do it. For

Dr. Spencer Baron (43:36.194)
Warning warnings.

Dr Terry (43:41.813)
Right. If if if they ex what's some yeah, what's some warnings that if people wanna try or chase that next fix, what's some things they need to pay attention to that could be harmful?

Dr. Spencer Baron (43:41.922)
Mm by yourself.

Alicia Vera Garcia (43:52.193)
Well in in general there there's a distinction between microdosing and the full dose. microdosing is is for most people it's safe.

and the full dose is another thing, but what are things you need to pay attention to? If you suffer from any mental health conditions like depression, anxiety, but if you had psychosis, this is not a red flag but an orange flag, to see if if it's safe for you to use it. people with bipolar disorder, people on certain medications, for example antidepressants.

It's not like it's a red flag. recently we thought it was a red flag, but now there have been recent developments and you can take psychedelics while on antidepressants, but in this case I would recommend you to find somebody to guide you.

And if you are under 18, minor, because your your brains are still developing, women that are pregnant or breastfeeding, and it's not like a no-go, but yeah, you need to pay more attention to certain aspects of microdosing.

Dr Terry (45:17.037)
For simple minded people such as myself, when when we hear the word truffles, you know, you mentioned truffles, but is that the same truffle that when you go to a high end restaurant and you order truffles? It's not.

Alicia Vera Garcia (45:31.18)
No, the taste is not so pleasant as the culinary truffles. Yeah, we we are referring to well in Latin it's called sclerotia, but these are different truffles from the truffles in restaurants.

Dr. Spencer Baron (45:37.038)
Good.

Dr Terry (45:48.302)
'Cause I'm here y you hear truffles and like, Well, I had truffles last night with my meal. my no wonder that meal was so good. So it so it's a definitely it's a different truffle than what people are hearing. the other thing that that when I was doing some research I'm finding it very popular is athletes are microdosing for perfor to increase their performance. Both their mental performance and their physical performance. And they want more output, especially with

Dr. Spencer Baron (45:49.508)
Great man.

Dr Terry (46:18.435)
some of the sports that involve NIL money, you know, hot now these athletes are multi-million dollar contracts. Everybody's always looking for the edge. They're not testing so much for it. So they're trying to get into a performance enhancement that won't show up in their drug testing. What's some of the maybe the deeper lessons learned and and what's some

What were your thoughts on this this new form of marketing and these athletes diving into something that you know could be potentially harmful?

Alicia Vera Garcia (46:53.614)
I I don't believe they could be harmful, but you need to know how to integrate microdosing into your life, especially if you are an athlete.

so you might not want to microdose for the first time if if it's new for you because you really need to find your sweet spot. But once you are on your sweet spot it could really help you and not directly in the sense like there will well yeah there can be direct results, but science has not backed up that it can help you with endurance directly, but it's

Also works on different layers, for example, in finding motivation, for example, or in staying grounded and also staying focused with focus. Sometimes because especially if these are high-functioning athletes, they might be experiencing anxiety or a lot of stress. So in those terms, microdosing can help you.

yeah, some people do report that it helps them with endurance.

Dr Terry (48:12.577)
And a well I'm a follow up on that one. There was a very famous football player in our country, it's football not s World Cup football, but who went down to Mexico and did an ayahuasca journey for all the trauma he had from being hit so many times and and all that and he was still in his forties wanting to compete. D did you after that documentary came out, did you see an uptake in your business, maybe athletes using it for trauma to stay in the game?

Alicia Vera Garcia (48:43.296)
No, I I didn't see that because I'm in Europe. but I do notice it when microdosing is in the media. Yeah, from for example f yeah, influencers for example or indeed

Prince I think it was Prince Harry did it, I also ayahuasca, and it helped him a lot to process the childhood trauma. yeah, sometimes I I notice it when it gets in the news, but not always.

Dr Terry (49:21.653)
It's been sure you know the core back I'm talking about. Green Bay Packers.

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:24.619)
I do not.

the retired guy?

Dr Terry (49:31.499)
No, he's not retired. Forty one, still coming back.

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:34.979)
I didn't know that. Really? The one who's with the Steelers now. Yeah. I blanking out on his name 'cause you just asked me, yeah.

Dr Terry (49:36.706)
the

Dr Terry (49:40.8)
Yes. They did a f they they did he's worldwide known and they did a full documentary on him going down to Yes, Aaron Rodgers went down to Mexico to do these ayahuasca journeys and that was part of his recovery to come back. And so

Dr. Spencer Baron (49:49.931)
Rogers. Aaron Rodgers. Yeah.

Dr Terry (50:02.709)
You know, when when that documentary hit, I had athletes asking me, Do I should I go down to Mexico? I I go, Well it can't be the only country doing it. And it but became pretty popular. And so I'm it you know, for not only recovery from all the brain trauma of the being hit so many times

Dr. Spencer Baron (50:12.437)
Right.

Dr Terry (50:22.071)
But I just see such a huge market for everybody from boxers and and martial artists to footballers to soccer players who are getting heading the ball all the time for brain recovery. do you find that do you do you besides all the regular people suffering from anxiety and A D, do you see a lot of the trauma from concussions helping it?

Alicia Vera Garcia (50:46.698)
Yeah, yes. once in a while I have clients that have had ha had concussions and they ha really experienced difficulties with concentration. They couldn't even read a book because it was too much and tiring f for them. And

Yeah, they started microdosing and after a few weeks already they started noticing improvements. They could read a book again, they could watch television again. yeah, so it it really improved the quality of life for them.

Dr Terry (51:23.277)
The b but the main thing is they have to see somebody like you to figure out what mushroom to microdose, not just l look.

Alicia Vera Garcia (51:30.772)
Well yeah in in the case of a concussion or or something bigger, I would recommend to find an expert on this. Yes. Not do it by yourself because yeah your your nervous system and also yeah on on neurological

perspective it's good to let somebody help you with this because it seems like these are very tiny amounts but it does a lot on your nervous system but all you also on on the whole neurological level. You don't want to worsen things.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:07.146)
Okay, now you got me now you got me curious. So can somebody microdose and then go perform or like an athlete and go play a big game or you know, an e or participate in an event even really. So

Alicia Vera Garcia (52:30.068)
Yes, you can, but but you already need to know your sweet spot. So this is very important. You really need to make sure that you have the same batch that you always have, because these are the most of them are natural substances. So you you really need to have the same concentration every time. You don't need to change things, you don't need to add supplements, for example, or herbs that also

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:33.578)
It yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:47.234)
Yeah.

Alicia Vera Garcia (52:59.982)
work as mayo inhibitors or work on the serotonin receptors because then you can add up to the effects and then you can enter into a journey.

Dr. Spencer Baron (53:13.474)
know you can imag I mean somebody that has been microdosing and then goes skiing and not see purple trees but would they be able to react I mean I don't know what it's like, but r to react faster and be more confident in their accuracy and reaction time and all that? Ooh interesting.

Alicia Vera Garcia (53:38.465)
Yes. Yes you can. If you are on your personal dose, and in the case of of professional athletes, it psilocibin for example is not on the the list of of forbidden substances but it depends really on on your local club if there's something listed is psilocybin is listed and also tested so

Yeah, you you really need to figure this out for yourself.

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:11.714)
Whew, interesting. Very interesting. I'm you know what, we're gonna jump into the rapid fire questions at this time. There's five of Alicia, and they don't all have to do with psilocybin or microdosing, but if you're ready, these are fun questions and they require brief answers. Ready for question number one?

Alicia Vera Garcia (54:32.34)
Okay, I w I will do my best. I will do my best to keep it brief, yes.

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:38.186)
You're working a world that's constantly exploring consciousness and human potential. But what's something completely ordinary in your life that instantly brings you peace and joy?

Alicia Vera Garcia (54:52.64)
This is so ordinary. Sumba. For me it's umba. Yes?

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:55.894)
Really? Still Zumba. They still do that out there. Okay in the Netherlands, right? Zumba. Alright. Yeah. Have you done Zumba, Terry? I d I I would not want to watch I would not want to watch that. Alright.

Alicia Vera Garcia (55:00.19)
Yes.

Dr Terry (55:03.551)
I love Zumba. No, but I just like it. But I'll do it with you if you wanna c yeah, I'll come to Miami. I'm sure there's a Zumba class we can do together.

Alicia Vera Garcia (55:12.148)
Mm.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:17.566)
Only on psilocybin. Only sorry.

Alicia Vera Garcia (55:18.23)
Well y Yeah. And for for me this is medicine, very grounding. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:25.128)
Yeah. Good, good. Question number two. Outside of your work, what experiences in your life shaped you most into the woman you are today?

Alicia Vera Garcia (55:36.938)
I would say my father, my father. Yeah, he doesn't live anymore, but yeah, well it was in notch not a such a nice way, but he really made me the woman I am and he is the reason I'm doing this work with psychedelics.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:39.746)
that's nice.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:56.118)
No kidding. great. So out of something negatives came something positive. Yes, would you say? Very good. Good good. That's a message to everyone out there listening. So question number three. For someone listening right now, who

Alicia Vera Garcia (56:04.269)
It did. Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (56:15.427)
basically feels burnt out, disconnected, or stuck in the survival mode. What what is one small thing that they can do starting tomorrow morning to reconnect with themselves?

Alicia Vera Garcia (56:28.84)
I would say silence, begin with silence, to to be able to really listen to your to that inner voice, to connect again with that, where the rest of the answers will follow from.

Dr. Spencer Baron (56:47.596)
Question number four, you talk about you talk a lot about intentional healing and nervous system awareness. I think that's fantastic. But w what's one habit people think is helping their mindset that's actually silently possibly hurting it?

Alicia Vera Garcia (57:07.736)
they think that it's helping them but it hurts them. Do you d do you refer to that practice? That that it's one thing they are doing is maybe a very modern tool, artificial intelligence. Because it's that new

Dr. Spencer Baron (57:17.162)
Yes. Yes.

Alicia Vera Garcia (57:30.186)
that when something is really exciting, innovating and it brings us a lot, but I also believe that it has a lot of downsides. Like instead of helping your brain, i it is helping you because you get creative, all those ideas, but we are overdoing it a little bit.

Dr. Spencer Baron (57:52.416)
Very good. And that's true. I think it's a you know artificial intelligence just like mm just like an iPhone. It's a tool, a tool that has helped, but it's also if used in the wrong way, then it can hurt. So thank you for that. That was really good. And the last question, Alicia. Years from now

When your life is long past and the titles, followers, accomplishments, and even even this conversation no longer matter. What do you hope people say you awakened them inside inside of them?

Alicia Vera Garcia (58:31.382)
Beautiful question.

Yeah.

Alicia Vera Garcia (58:43.094)
It's about living meaning, finding meaning in this temporary experience as a human being.

Dr. Spencer Baron (58:57.034)
That's great. Alicia Vera Garcia, thank you very much for being on the show today. That was very enlightening.

Alicia Vera Garcia (59:07.447)
Thank you. It was such an honor to be here and yeah I really thought it was fun.