Should Everyone Take Creatine and Eat More Protein? - Dr. Jose Antonio

HAVE WE BEEN WRONG ABOUT CREATINE AND PROTEIN ALL ALONG? | Dr. Jose Antonio

For years, creatine has been labeled a "muscle-building supplement" and protein has been at the center of endless nutrition debates. But what if these two nutritional powerhouses are about far more than building muscle?

What if they are among the most important tools we have for healthy aging, brain health, cognitive performance, longevity, metabolic health, and maintaining independence as we grow older?

In this episode of the Crackin' Backs Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Jose Antonio, one of the world's leading researchers in sports nutrition, muscle physiology, protein metabolism, human performance, and dietary supplementation.

For more than three decades, Dr. Antonio has been at the forefront of research on creatine, protein intake, athletic performance, muscle growth, body composition, and healthy aging. He has witnessed the rise of supplement culture, the protein wars, the creatine myths, and the explosion of health misinformation on social media.

Together, we separate science from hype and answer some of the biggest questions in health and performance today:

• Is creatine really one of the best supplements for brain health and cognitive performance?
• How much protein do you actually need for muscle growth, recovery, and healthy aging?
• Why do myths about creatine continue to survive despite decades of research?
• Are we underestimating the role of muscle mass in longevity and disease prevention?
• Is the current debate around high-protein diets and longevity missing the bigger picture?
• What are the non-negotiable habits for building a strong body and resilient brain that lasts into your 70s, 80s, and beyond?
• Could creatine eventually become as common as a daily multivitamin?

Whether you're interested in sports nutrition, healthy aging, strength training, longevity, brain health, fitness, biohacking, cognitive performance, weight loss, muscle preservation, or simply living a healthier life, this conversation delivers practical, evidence-based insights you can use immediately.

ABOUT DR. JOSE ANTONIO

Dr. Jose Antonio is an internationally recognized expert in sports nutrition, exercise physiology, protein metabolism, creatine research, and dietary supplementation. He is the founder of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (ISSN) and has authored hundreds of scientific papers, book chapters, and research publications that have helped shape modern understanding of performance nutrition, muscle growth, recovery, and human health.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

 The truth about creatine and kidney health

Why creatine may benefit your brain as much as your muscles

The biggest myths surrounding protein consumption

How much protein most adults actually need

The relationship between muscle mass and longevity

What supplement research gets right—and wrong

Practical strategies for maintaining strength, energy, and resilience as you age

If you enjoy conversations on longevity, health optimization, nutrition science, functional medicine, performance, strength training, anti-aging, cognitive health, and evidence-based wellness, you'll want to watch this episode all the way through.

CONNECT WITH DR. JOSE ANTONIO

Dr. Jose Antonio: Website:
Research & Publications:

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We are two sports chiropractors, seeking knowledge from some of the best resources in the world of health. From our perspective, health is more than just “Crackin Backs” but a deep dive into physical, mental, and nutritional well-being philosophies.

 Join us as we talk to some of the greatest minds and discover some of the most incredible gems you can use to maintain a higher level of health. Crackin Backs Podcast

Transcript

Dr. Spencer Baron (00:01.159)
Well, few people have witnessed the evolution of sports nutrition from inside, quite like today's guest. Now he's been there through the protein wars, the creatine panic, the supplement industry explosion, and now emerging science linking nutrition to brain health, aging, and longevity. While social media influencers still argue over the latest fad, he he has spent decades looking for and what actually

Science says. Doctor Jose Antonio, welcome to the Kraken Backs Podcast.

JOSE ANTONIO (00:36.839)
Hey hey, thanks doc for that introduction. I like the part where he said decades, which means I've been doing this a long time, and you know what? You know, I teach a sports nutrition course at Nova Southeastern University, and I always implore my students, you know, you should take creatine monohydrate, it's good for you. And I tell them this, this is how I put it in perspective. I've been taking it since Bill Clinton was president.

Dr Terry (00:44.995)
you

JOSE ANTONIO (01:02.271)
And they look at me like, is that supposed to mean something to us? So I'm like, okay, you guys weren't alive, I know that, but just know that I've been doing it for a long time. So it is indeed true, decades of experience, personal experience and research.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:07.357)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:21.117)
Huh at least you didn't s I was gonna I was gonna say at least we didn't say George Washington, man, that would have been scary.

Dr Terry (01:21.71)
Well, that's okay. Spencer will say Lincoln, so I'm glad you...

JOSE ANTONIO (01:31.661)
Yeah, if you're going back to GW, that's yeah, that's for a while.

Dr Terry (01:33.122)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:37.629)
Well, I kinda switched it up 'cause I was gonna say you were a pioneer, but we already cleared that up as being

JOSE ANTONIO (01:44.078)
When I hear you know what's funny, when I hear the word pioneer, I think of Lewis and Clark, like walking from like Louisiana to like Oregon. I'm like, that's a pioneer.

Dr Terry (01:54.53)
Right, right.

Dr. Spencer Baron (01:54.749)
this is gonna be a fun show. All right. Doctor, let me let me ask him. Ha first of all, how how did this thing about nutrition start? 'Cause I remember forty years ago when I started practicing, medical doctors were often referring to the fact that, if you have a balanced diet, you don't need vitamins. You know, things like that and I'm sure you remember that stuff. So start us.

Dr Terry (01:57.742)
Yes it is.

JOSE ANTONIO (02:20.821)
Yeah, not just yeah, not just medical doctors, but dietitians. I mean, if you go back to I mean, I did my undergrad in the nineteen eighties and I remember my first nutrition professor, actually, I think my only nutrition professor back then,

She said protein is harmful to your kidneys if you eat too much. And that really got me going. I'm thinking, hmm, that's kind of interesting. This is a professor at a university telling me this. And, you know, as an undergrad, let's face it, undergrad students, we're not really that smart, but I'm smart enough to know that I've watched my uncle down gobs of protein, and he was a bodybuilder then. I'm like, he sure is healthy, so I don't see anything going on there. So the idea, I mean, it's interesting.

Nutrition Nutrition is a field that everyone has a an opinion on. Why? Because everyone eats. So they figure, well, I eat, therefore I am an expert. But I think where most of the misinformation came from initially going back, you know, decades, is from physicians and dietitians, which is kind of ironic because

Most people, for instance, most people don't know a scientist, so they wouldn't know how to ask. Most people really don't know dietitians, but they know their physician. So their physician is the one who gives them advice about whether or not vitamins are a waste of time, whether too much protein is bad for you. So really going back then, it seemed that the default position of all of these health professionals was that you don't need it, and it could be bad for you. That that seemed to be the default position the position, despite the fact that they had no evidence for.

This. It was sort of like, it's bad. I'm like, if it's bad, what's the evidence? You could at least say, okay, we don't have much evidence. That would be intellectually honest, but instead, you know, that stuff's bad. so I remember in grad school in the 1980s, it was one of the first times that there was a scientist who talked about, you know what, if you do more exercise, you probably need more protein. And when you think about it, in the 1980s, that was actually quite controversial. And so, even back then, even with the emerging science.

JOSE ANTONIO (04:26.977)
Of sports nutrition, people were still generally very skeptical of supplements and especially protein in general. And I think this is why. When you look at the supplement category, people originally think, okay, where does this category originate from? What athletes are doing it? And it always goes back to bodybuilding, because they're typically the pioneers.

If you want to call them athletes, I have friends who are bodybuilders who are like, no, we're not athletes. We just lift to look pretty. I don't know if you call that athletic. But they were.

They were quite cognizant that nutrition played a role in increasing muscle mass, right? So I think people who are outside of the bodybuilding realm or even the fitness world have always been skeptical of what bodybuilders do, even though they kind of they're really the first group to experiment with a lot of this stuff. And so I mean if you fast forward to creatine, why were people s so skeptical of creatine? Well, because bodybuilders use it. And of course, if bodybuilders use it, it can't really it can't really work.

Because they're all on the Jews, yada yada, yada. And it's, and so there's this constant skepticism. And here's what's crazy: fast forward to 2026, I think we now have 600, maybe 700 studies on creatine alone. And there's still people who are skeptical. And it's like, hmm, how much evidence do you really need? I mean, to me, as a scientist, I'll be honest, as a scientist,

It's gotten to the point where I don't really need to see another study showing creatine increases lean mass. I I don't. I I I it works. I I don't need to see it. However, it would be nice to see studies on the effects of creatine on cognition and things like that. That's where a lot of research is going. So so I guess if you look at the historically, because bodybuilders, because supplements in general came from the bodybuilding world, I think that's where most people seem to have their skepticism in terms of

JOSE ANTONIO (06:24.641)
Does it work? And is it safe?

Dr. Spencer Baron (06:27.45)
Y you know, it's funny because I remember back in the day in the eighties that we as, you know, bodybuilders needed to take desiccated liver pe tablets. Do you remember that?

JOSE ANTONIO (06:38.189)
I remember those. my god. my those smelled.

Dr. Spencer Baron (06:43.216)
And that was it. And terrible. I mean if you burped it up, you had to turn your head so you didn't blow away the person next to you.

JOSE ANTONIO (06:50.895)
my god. I here's a funny, I remember my uncle, he was who I learned he was actually a bodybuilder, but he was actually my first karate instructor. That's why you know I remember how my uncle trained. So he's he he had these you remember the Joe Wheater amino acid tablets? my god. Yeah. He'd be working out in our garage and I'd open it up. I'm like, God, this stuff stinks. And he said what everyone said at the time. He's like, it tastes crappy, that means it works. I'm like,

Dr. Spencer Baron (07:17.882)
Yo That's right.

JOSE ANTONIO (07:20.351)
Like no this stuff stinks. I who takes this stuff? He's like, it works, I'm telling ya. It's it's it smells and that's why it works.

Dr. Spencer Baron (07:28.868)
Reminiscing on nutrition, how it's changed so I love this conversation. How it's changed so much. So let l how about if we l what is one thing that you can look back on back in in the day that maybe today you go, wow, that this, you know, th this is completely different than what I thought it was, whether it was good or bad. Is there anything that you remember that

JOSE ANTONIO (07:53.857)
Well I think I think the biggest change a and certainly it it affected my personal and professional life was we went from not we, not me personally, but the science I'll call it the science category, we'll call it the large category of sports medicine, sports science.

They were very much anti-supplement. It was the I just and let's say we're we're going back to the nineteen eighties, even nineteen nineties, exceedingly anti-supplement. And that even bled into the early two thousands. And it was to the it was to the extent that

It was very ideologic, w which you know, which is strange because these are supposedly science societies, but it was highly ideologic and and let me tell you sort of a f funny personal story of how ideologic it was. me and my good friend Jeff Stout, he's a professor at University of Central Florida. we applied to give a talk at the American College of Sports Medicine, and this was

wanna say either late nineties or early two thousands and the talk was about supplements. And when we applied we're like, they're not gonna take this. They g they hate supplements. lo and behold they they're like sure give a talk on supplements. We're like whoa they actually want us to give them talk it was

the first talk on supplements at American College of Sports Medicine. But it gets kinda funnier even after that. So we're looking at the PowerPoint slides. I'm like, this is like the most boring ass talk ever. I mean, this is just boring shit. You know, but because we figured, you know,

JOSE ANTONIO (09:32.533)
We can't really talk about anything fun and exciting. Let's just give them the facts. It was almost like and I hate these kinds of talks. It was like a bullet point talk. And this is fact number one. It's like, my god, I'm boring myself. so so we give a talk, standing room only. This is what's funny.

We give a talk, Dr. Stout talks about the history of supplements, going back to like the ancient Greeks and Romans. I talk about like five supplements, like I mean like vitamin C, creatine, protein. I'm like, wow, this is really exciting. so at the end, we're done. Okay. And immediately the crowd was hostile. I mean hostile.

They immediately got up and I remember this one professor, i I think it was from one of the Dakotas, he said.

I can't believe ACSM let you give a talk. This is a bunch of bullshit. You're you guys are snake oil salesmen. It was like, whoa, I was like, whoa, this is nuts. And it was like one after the other. It's like, it was, this is bullshit. This sucks. I don't why are guys even talking here? And and I'm like, first I was kind of mad. I was like, what's wrong with these people? Then I started, you know what? I kind of like this because it actually it it touched the nerve, okay?

But but then later on during the attack session, we realized that actually half the audience loved us. But here's the funny part, Doc. It was the half that looked like bodybuilders.

JOSE ANTONIO (11:03.061)
So they're actually bodybuilders in the crowd. Yes. And I remember this one guy stands up and he's like, you know what? He points to another scientist. He's he said, because this one scientist was just going off criticizing. It's like, this was, I mean, how it was a boring talk. I mean, you're you're nitpicking what literally is a boring talk. And he this bodybuilder points to the scientist and he says, I can tell you don't take creatine.

Dr Terry (11:03.726)
Wow. Wow.

JOSE ANTONIO (11:32.285)
So I was like, shit. He was clearly making fun of his size because Yeah, so and and so the bodybuilder walks up to the mic because the microphone was in the middle aisle and so the scientist was there. Bodybuilder walks up and they are nose to nose. I'm like

Dr. Spencer Baron (11:36.719)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's

JOSE ANTONIO (11:50.165)
I look at Jeff Stout, I'm like, is there gonna be a fight at this conference in our talk? And so I was like, please don't punch, please don't punch 'cause it would be like two hits. One, the bodybuilder would hit him and he'd hit the ground. I mean that's it. It's like two hits.

Eventually one of our who one of our good friends now, he was in the very back of the hallway, like i there was like 300 people in there and he stood up and he just yelled, he's like, Everybody just shut up. Let these guys answer questions. Stop, you know, basically stop harassing us. And so it kind of brought the temperature down.

But still it it here's what it showed. It showed that there's this this sort of dichotomy of people who thought supplements were worthy and supplements were a waste. And this is in a sports science, science conference, which means okay.

Wow, people are really ideologic about this. I mean, to me, it's like if a supplement works, take it. If it doesn't work, I don't give a shit. Don't take it. but these were a lot of these people were like, supplements are bullshit. Okay, but it gets better. It gets better. Okay. So myself and Jeff Stout, we end up we go to a cocktail party, and I hate parties, you know, but we're like, let's get a drink. What the hell? So we go to this cocktail party.

And the president of the organization walks up to us and says, Gentlemen, if you want to have a career, I would suggest you don't do any research in supplements. And at first I'm like, is there earwax? Did I have earwax in there? What the hell? Did she say don't don't do research? Yeah, we were both so flabbergasted by the comment, it was like, afterwards we're like, wait, did she say don't do research?

JOSE ANTONIO (13:41.855)
In supplements. Yes, she said that. So imagine a scientist, this is it was so crazy. Imagine a scientist coming up to young scientists, because she was established, and saying, if you want to have a career, don't do research on supplements. I was like, whoa. Okay. Okay, this is not a good organization. And and

The irony is that right after that, both Dr. Jeff Stout and I, we left academia and we worked in industry for several years. So not only did we ignore it, we're like, we're gonna go all the way over to the dark side and work in the industry. But I actually had, I actually had

My own personal reason for wanting to work in the industry. And I think, and if there are scientists who are going to be listening to this, I think they should take heed. My reason for going into the industry was I wanted to know how non-science people, I want to know how they think. Because at the end of the day, as a scientist, you are dependent on industry for funding. And you want it, you want to learn okay, how do these guys think? How do they view research? What are the things they want to know when they fund a study? They want practice.

Pragmatic outcomes and scientists like, hey, let's just study everything. Well, no, we let's not study everything. Let's study things that might matter to the consumer. And so once you learn how people in the industry think, it's easier for a scientist, when you approach, let's say, someone for funding, I know how you guys think because I worked on that side of the industry. Whereas a lot of scientists have never worked in the industry, so they think this is the most amazing thing or flabbergasted, the most flabbergassing thing. They think they have endless money, like

All these companies just are rolling in the dough. It's like no.

JOSE ANTONIO (15:30.293)
They ha are really careful about how they spend money in that if there's not a marketing if there's not a marketing angle to spending money for science, it's really not worthwhile. So in a way you have to think as a marketing person, it's like if I do a study for you, what structure function claims can you possibly make based on the data? I guarantee you most scientists never think that way. But that's how I think. It's like, okay, well, I've designed enough studies I could probably figure out.

what would be the best study designs that might show, let's say, how creatine works or how protein works. So, you know, it's it's interesting that the year two thousand when we got all that shit for, you know, giving a talk at sport at a sports medicine conference, to now fast forward two and a half decades and there are

PhD programs that do sports nutrition almost exclusively. Students love sports nutrition. And when I tell them, I say, do you realize before the year 2000? People would laugh at you if you said, I want to study sports supplements and nutrition. They would like, nah, that's stupid. Now it's the cool thing. So literally in two and a half decades, it is the cool thing to study, which, you know, it's like, hey, that's pretty cool. I mean, it sucks that I got the arrows, you know, initially. But hey, you know what?

Dr. Spencer Baron (16:37.038)
Yeah.

JOSE ANTONIO (16:48.757)
Like you said earlier, I'm Lewis and Clark. You're gonna get arrows, but at the end of the day you whatever, reach the Oregon Trail you see the Pacific Ocean or something. So that's that's how I view it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (16:52.248)
Right.

Dr. Spencer Baron (17:01.078)
You definitely you definitely paved the the way. I'm gonna I'm let me switch gears for a moment 'cause I'm gonna narrow this down to you know s because our listeners are are are quite curious and viewers. It it if now I don't know if this is a fair question, but i if every American was to take just one supplement for the next mm ten years or so, not for athletic performance.

But for overall health, you know, b brain function and healthy aging w would it still be creatine? and if so, why or why not?

JOSE ANTONIO (17:31.423)
Yeah, you know, it's a toss it's great question, great question, because let's face it, most people take supplements who take it are not trying to run faster or lift more weights. They they're doing it for general health. And the the easy one is the easy answer is creatine because it does so many things. the second answer would be omega-three fatty acids. I think those i when you're looking purely general population health

Creatine, omega-3 fatty acids. And you know what? I actually think supplemental protein helps because most people don't consume as much protein as they think. And it could be in the form of whey. It could be, I mean, even non-dairy-based protein is fine. but I think those three would be great. creatine, omega-3 fats, and and protein. Now, I have friends who don't eat any fish, which is like I love fish. And I I eat a lot, I probably eat

go to a Japanese restaurant two or three times a week. So I don't I actually don't even take fish oil. I get get a lot of omega-3 fats from fish, but but it's hard to not put creatine in that list. It really is.

Dr. Spencer Baron (18:43.416)
What fish is high in omega threes that you would

JOSE ANTONIO (18:46.133)
Well I eat well I eat mostly I like salmon, salmon belly, eel,

Dr Terry (18:46.173)
Sorry, Deans.

JOSE ANTONIO (18:56.173)
There's some other fish I like, but those are the main ones. I sometimes like tuna. tuna's kinda weird though. Sometimes it tastes good, sometimes it doesn't. but you know. So but those are the main ones I consume.

Dr. Spencer Baron (19:03.982)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (19:09.42)
And why I I I mean I we've hear I hear so much about creatine now, well, in the last couple of years I should say compared to one, you know, since the eighties, you know. But why is there still all that negative stuff about it? And you know, you got influencers p promoting it and that always i is kind of sketchy. But what do you think as to why? Without even though it's there's so much research on it.

JOSE ANTONIO (19:15.831)
Mm-hmm.

JOSE ANTONIO (19:36.051)
Yeah, it's it's strange. There there's a physician on Instagram, and she says, Creatine will kill you. I'm like, not harm you, kill you. And I'm like, it'll kill you? Like kill kill you. I mean I that's how bad it is. So

Dr. Spencer Baron (19:49.166)
Really?

JOSE ANTONIO (19:54.185)
About four or five years ago. I was like, I've been taking it since Bill Clinton was president. I'm still alive. so one of my good friends, he's at the University of S Regina up in Saskatchewan, and Darren Candell, he said, You know what? We keep getting the same questions about creatine for the last bazillion years. Why don't we publish we'll write a paper and call it Common Questions and Misconceptions about Creatine. So we just

Dr. Spencer Baron (20:00.324)
Yeah.

JOSE ANTONIO (20:24.299)
Basically saying, you know, does creatine, you know, hurt your kidneys. Does creatine cause scramps? So we basically went through what are the ten most common questions people ask. We wrote the paper, we got it published, and people still talk shit about creatin. So so we decided, hey, let's do a part two. Because apparently part one wasn't good enough. So we did a part two.

And still people talk shit about creatine. So I'm like, you know what, I don't know if we need a part three because you know, people don't believe anything apparently. They they have a preconceived notion as to what creatine about how bad creatine is. So if you have physicians saying it'll kill you, it'll kill and like how do you you know, a it's what's funny, I I went on the the her feed where she was saying it'll kill you, and I said, you know, if it actually does kill you, I would publish that

data 'cause that's kind of interesting. And she of course said, Well no, I'm not this is I this is me working with my patients. I'm not gonna publish any of this. So someone said, so the reference is trust me bro. That's your reference. Okay.

Yeah. So apparently, trust me bro, is the reference for a lot of this stuff. It's like, you know, I it's just my personal experience. I someone died and they had a bottle of creatine next to them, so of course it was creatine. Yeah. So so it's just strange. It's so strange. And I tell a lot of my students, I'm like, okay, you guys are gonna be up and coming when you get, you know, when you get into this field. Just realize there's more data on creatine than every food that you consume.

Dr. Spencer Baron (21:40.793)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (21:59.407)
Nice.

JOSE ANTONIO (21:59.543)
Pikafu, milk, beef, chicken. There's more data on creatine. And yet people will like you know, like ketchup. I always pe tell people, where's the ketchup data? Huh? Where's the ketchup data? You put ketchup on your hamburger, where's the ketchup data? There's no ketchup data. But people are like, I love ketchup. You know, if you if if you really believe in science, you should understand that there's so much creatine data that to

Dr. Spencer Baron (22:02.202)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (22:10.446)
Ha ha ha.

JOSE ANTONIO (22:22.581)
To be skeptical of it. I mean it's always good to be skeptical, but after like you know after the first hundred studies, it's like, okay, well, it it's safe and it seems to work. maybe we need a hundred more studies. Okay, still safe, still works. A hundred more studies. Okay, still safe, still works. Now.

When we when you get when we get into the cognitive aspects, this is where it gets a little tricky because apparently it's much more difficult to get creatine into your brain than it is into your muscle. And this is and this is sort of the next scientific debate. In fact, myself and my colleagues were writing a paper on this. We know how five grams gets into muscle. Take five grams a day, in like four to six weeks, you can saturate muscle.

Apparently your brain you just need a much higher dose. Some people say 10 grams. Some people even say 20 grams. And I'll be honest with you, I ain't taking 20 grams. No way. 20 grams. I'm like, holy, I'll be swallowing pills like all morning. so to me this is where it gets really interesting. You know, the cognitive part. Now, is it true that some may overhype the cognitive part? Possibly, but this is how I would respond to that. What's the downside?

There's no downside. Take creatine. There's no downside. It'll help skeletal muscle. It might help the brain, you know. If it doesn't, okay, it's neutral. It has a neutral effect. You can take other brain related supplements. You can take, you know, fish oil is probably your best bet. But but I forgot what your original question was. I just started talking, so I

Dr Terry (23:54.511)
Yeah, you're covering it all. Right. Yes.

Dr. Spencer Baron (23:54.936)
no, no, no, that's all no, I do the same thing. It's great. We all do that at this age. No but no, yeah I I was actually just curious about the fact that

You know, with the advent of social media like TikTok and Instagram that you got you got your people that want clicks. You know, the clickbait is let's go against the grain. So you got a some imbecile doctor, medical doctor or doctor saying it could kill you. Now you know that people are going to wanna what do you mean? And and there it is. You know, they get I re I remember several years ago a physical therapist, this it might have been ten years ago, physical therapist published a paper that said that ICE

JOSE ANTONIO (24:13.516)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (24:34.733)
Does not ice on an injury does not work. It actually makes you worse. I'm thinking, this is like the most age old instant treatment that you can apply at home, ice to

cool down or calm down a trauma. He was looking for attention. And that's how I apply some of these principles. But do you feel that TikTok and or social media, Instagram has has made it better for those creatine users or believers than not?

JOSE ANTONIO (25:04.557)
I think on the net the net effect is positive, I think. Because there are enough people out there that are touting the the virtues of taking creatine. however, in general, if you take the supplement category in general

It seems that there are people who just get on TikTok or Instagram and all they do is bitch and moan. They bitch and moan about okay, there's not enough data about omega-3 fatty acids to do X, Y, and Z. You know, and I look at this, all of these supplements, I look at them in a very pragmatic way. I'm not, I divide scientists into purists and pragmatists. Purists, they need to have, you know, a hundred randomized controlled trials, it's gotta be all well.

Well done. Whereas a pragmatist, I'll look at the data, I'm like, that's kind of interesting. And then I'll look at what people do in real life. I'm like, okay, that's kind of cool too. And they seem to match. So I I approach it as could it help you? Yeah. Will it hurt you? No. Well then do it. I mean, when you think about it, what's the harm? It's either either helps or has a neutral effect. And and I would say there's only really one quote supplement that could that could either help you a lot or harm.

Dr. Spencer Baron (26:14.105)
Simple.

JOSE ANTONIO (26:23.511)
You and that's caffeine because you could overdose on caffeine, but we love caffeine, and no one ever says, by the way, caffeine could hurt you, but we're not dumb enough to overdose on it, you know. So, so all the other supplements, I mean what are you gonna overdose on creatine? How the hell is that gonna happen? Beta-alanine? I don't think so. beetroot juice, citrulline. I you're not gonna overdose on it, so if it helps.

Or has a neutral effect, use it. That's and and again, that's me talking to people who are trying to perform better, whether it's strength or power or endurance. for people who just want general health, you know, the proteins, the creatins, the omega-3 fats, don't eat a lot of junk, move your body a little bit, and y you'll be good.

Dr. Spencer Baron (27:09.101)
Hey, you mentioned earlier, you take creatine in the capsule form or pill form. is that preferred or 'cause there is the powder that I hear about all the time.

JOSE ANTONIO (27:14.315)
Yes.

JOSE ANTONIO (27:22.709)
I only take it in the capsule form because that's just what I'm used to. yeah, like I don't make shakes at home. Like a lot of people will put creatine in shakes. I actually just drink ready-to-drink protein shakes. So people say, well, I'll just add creatine to it. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do that. I sit on my backyard deck and I stare at the water and I drink my protein. I'm not gonna put more creatine in it. That the that ruins the fun. I just want to open it and drink it. I don't wanna, you know.

adding another behavior that I I just don't want to do. So I take my pills in the morning and then I go my merry way.

Dr. Spencer Baron (27:55.258)
okay. I was just wondering because you know, I know there's those that just throw it in a glass of water in the in the early morning or something like that. I know it's a little rough, yeah. Quick quick question on the fact that creatine moved from helping with muscle to brain or cognitive function. Do you see anything in the future that c creatine would be popularized for?

JOSE ANTONIO (28:01.107)
Yeah, I don't do that. Yeah, well I don't do that. Hmm.

JOSE ANTONIO (28:20.877)
Well well I think we still haven't figured out what it does for the brain. I mean, I think what what we do know is that under conditions of severe stress, so let's say you're sleep deprived, or you know, you're under some sort of metabolic stress, creatine can help brain function. I I tell students all the time, I mean you guys

You might you might study a lot, you don't get enough sleep, you're under a lot of stress. Creatin might be the most beneficial under those circumstances. So so I think I always you know, and it's funny, in the exercise physiology world

We've been studying everything below the neck for the last half century or century, right? We know what goes on below the neck, skeletal muscle, heart muscle, etc. We haven't really done above the neck because the brain is super complicated, and you can't really biopsy someone's brain. Hey, can I take some brain tissue? yeah, sure, you know, drill a hole, you know. Yeah, can't do that. So we're left with looking at stuff very indirectly, whereas before, you know, with muscle, we could take a biopsy and see what's

going on. So with brain stub, okay, we do these measures, you know, looking at attention or memory or whatnot. These are all indirect measures. But again, as a prag pragmatist, that's really all that matters. I mean I don't need to biopsy someone's brain to see if something helps my brain. So we're left with these very indirect measures, which at the end of the day is what matters to consumers. They want to know you know does it help my memory? Does it make me feel less tired? You know, things like that.

Dr. Spencer Baron (29:55.77)
Good one. Go ahead, Terry. I know you were gonna ask some.

Dr Terry (29:59.063)
No, want to gears because you mentioned earlier into protein. And we hear about the dogma of protein, know, high protein for muscle, low protein for longevity, plant-based versus animal-based. What's the big nutrition debate that you've taken your people on this protein journey?

JOSE ANTONIO (30:19.565)
This is such a protein's such a funny debate topic. because scientists argue about it. Th there's this one there's this sort of this one sort of internal debate among scientists. it kind of goes like this. Okay, we know the RDA is stupid, 0.8 grams per kilo. Yeah, that's stupid. No one no one follows that.

But there are there are a group of scientists that say once you get above 1.6 grams per kilo, anything above that is a waste. I'll paraphrase it, a waste, it's useless, whatever. You don't need to do that. Okay, 1.6 grams per kilo. I think most people that work out hit that probably easily, I think.

But the question you have to ask is so what happens at 1.7 grams per kilo? What's happening? because I recommend actually much higher. I recommend as as high as 2.2 grams per kilo. And even higher. I have people doing three grams per kilo. So the question is, okay, 1.6 grams per kilo. Why is there that cutoff? Why is there that sealing?

Dr. Spencer Baron (31:05.517)
Ha

JOSE ANTONIO (31:24.661)
And the idea is always, well, it's a waste. You don't need protein. Okay? Now again, gotta think of this pragmatically. Does your body actually waste protein?

The answer is no, it doesn't. So let's say you eat a gob of protein. What does your body do with it? Well, whatever is needed for, you know, muscle protein turnover, organ protein turnover, it uses that anything, quote, in excess that it doesn't use, what does it do? It oxidizes it as fuel. Your body, think about it. If your body wasted protein, we'd be dead as a species. We'd be dead. So imagine you live you're like you live in Germany, this is like

20,000 years ago, you're in Germany, it's cold as crap. It's not like you're picking mangoes off trees. You're like, man, I need food. I need food. So you're like, well, hey, hey, if if if all 10 of us chase that deer, eventually one of us could kill it, and we get to eat. So you chase the deer, you kill it, you eat it, you probably eat it raw because you're so damn hungry. Think about this. Okay, now that you've had 1.6 grams per kilo, stop eating. Who the hell thinks like that? You're like dying. You haven't eaten in two days. You're gonna eat as much freaking deer.

Meat as possible. Why? Because your body knows what to do with it. So, from an evolutionary standpoint, it doesn't make sense to have this upper limit when, in fact, humans historically probably it was either feast or famine, feast or famine, feast or famine. So once you had food, you're like, I gotta eat, eat, eat because I don't know if I'm gonna get food again. So that's my sort of historical evolutionary perspective. The other one is it's kind of how.

It's it's it's a criticism of how people view food, I guess. So if you're if you look at the three major food groups, and if you want to count count alcohol as a food group, but let's not. So carbs, fat, protein, right? Carbs, fat, protein, carbs, fat, protein. Protein is the only macronutrient where scientists are hell-bent on putting a ceiling on it. It's like stop at one point six grams per kilo.

JOSE ANTONIO (33:26.849)
But they don't do that with carbs, they don't do that with fat, only with protein.

And I'm thinking, out of those three, you're probably better off eating a lot of protein and not as much carbs or fat. Why? Because it's if you want to get fat, eat a lot of carbs and fat. It's very hard, not impossible, but it's very hard to put on body fat by eating a lot of protein. How do I know? Because I did these studies in the 2010s. In fact, I don't know if you're familiar with some of that data I did, of studies we did. This is we did a series of studies from 2014 to 2018.

And it was to answer the simple question. What if I the question was, what if I just ate a lot of protein? It's a lot. So the first study we did, okay. I got a bunch of people, I'm like, okay, the only thing I want is that you guys have to be people who lift weights, but I don't want you to change how you train for the next two months. You're like, okay, and I get free protein. Yeah, you get all the free protein you want. So this is how we challenged them, and I bet you you guys can't do it. I tried it, I couldn't do it. I want you to consume two grams per pound.

And they're thinking, two grams per pound? Okay, that that's not that much. And then they start doing the math. They're like, Holy crap. So the guys who weigh two hundred pounds are consuming four hundred grams. Even girls who weigh a hundred pounds, two hundred grams is a lot. So I said, I know this sucks. Just here's w we basically just gave a here's all the protein powder. You don't have to buy and just eat pr drink protein. we had like

25% of people drop out, they're like, I can't do this. I can't eat. I tried it, I'm like, I can't do I I felt sick just eating all that protein. But enough people finished it. Okay. Imagine that. Two grams per pound. Two grams per pound. And what did we find? we found that they didn't gain fat or weight or nothing. Like basically nothing. And it was like, huh, that's kind of weird.

JOSE ANTONIO (35:23.393)
They didn't gain any fat. They didn't really gain any weight. This is really interesting. What they did here's what's funny, what they did complain about. There was this my favorite subject, she's tiny, she's like 95 pounds, but she followed like the the protocol to a T and she said, you know what?

I was hot, constantly, just hot, you know, and you're living in Florida, it's like you're hot to begin with, now you're just hot. And she said the only way I could fall asleep is if I laid on top of my sheets, turned the fan on and and laid like an X. Yeah, X, yeah, X Yeah. She said she was constantly hot because of the thermic effect of protein. So people like this is bullshit. If you're eating that many more calories, you gotta be gaining weight, some sort of weight, you gotta be gaining fat. I'm like, well

You don't seem to be gaining fat. It's so we decide, okay, how about this? We'll we'll try this again. We're gonna do it different. We're gonna make it three point four grams per kilo. Okay, so you do the math, you're like, holy shit, that's still a lot of protein. But it's still less than four point four grams per kilo.

So we did that, still super high protein diet, but we did one change, other change. We said we want all of you to follow a bodybuilding type program. So it was something like, you know, back buys, chest, shoulder tries, legs, you know, the you know the typical splits people do for bodybuilding.

Again, two months, and we we found that the high protein group and quote the lower protein group gained the same amount of lean mass. But think about this. High protein group was 3.4 grams per kilo. The low, and it's not really low, but the low protein group was about two grams per kilo. So some people would say you're really comparing super high to high. Okay, they gained the same amount of lean mass, and they're like, see, I told you there's a limit, but this is the more interesting part.

JOSE ANTONIO (37:13.675)
the group that ate more protein lost more fat mass. So if the goal is just muscle mass, it seems like one gram per pound or two point two grams per kilo is enough.

So then the the next pragmatic question I ask is, well, what's the downside to consuming more? And the answer is there is no downside because you could be losing body fat. So all just by changing their training, eating more protein, they lost fat and gained lean mass. Now, the naysayers on online were like, well, it's that can't be healthy for you. There's no way that's good for you, all that protein. So we're like, okay. We followed people for a year, okay? And then we followed people for two years.

Imagine this, we follow people for a year and then two years. Nothing. Kidneys fine, liver fine, everything fine, blood lipids are fine. We followed like five or six bodybuilders for like two years. Everything is fine. Cholesterol's fine, liver's fine, kidneys fine. But here's the funny part, and it and it harkens back to your original question about why people are so weird about creatine and supplements in general. Is that even with two years worth of data

People still don't believe it. They're like, well

What if they did this like ten years? I'm like, first of all, there's no one's gonna do a ten year study. What if they did it for twenty years? I'm like, Well, yeah, I don't know. What if they do for twenty years? Or you can just look at people who eat a lot of protein, and these are usually people who are athletic, and just look at them. I mean, people who work out who tend to eat more protein probably tend to live longer. But again, it gets kind of fuzzy. It's like, well, why they live longer? Is it because they work out? Well, yeah, that's part of it. Is it because they're not fat? Yeah, that's another part of it. Is it because they eat protein? Well

JOSE ANTONIO (38:57.223)
This is where it's sort of let's segue into aging and sarcopenia. Okay. So sarcopenia, age-related lots of muscle mass. Protein plays an incredible role there.

As you get older you're less sensitive to protein. And this is where you actually might have to increase your protein intake just because you're an old bastard, right? You and I are old, right? We need more protein. And and it's like, so I gotta eat a lot of fish, drink a lot of shakes, because I know god dang it, I ain't twenty-eight years old anymore. So when I was twenty eight, I could work out, I could recover next day and you know, do all sorts of crazy stuff. Now I I can't do crazy stuff anymore. So so that's the answer to whatever your question was.

Dr Terry (39:40.258)
Yeah

Dr. Spencer Baron (39:40.3)
That was good. No, you know, it's fascinating because I remember hearing back in the, you know, weight training, bodybuilding, resistance training days that too much protein, whatever that looks like, turns to fat. Period. So we you know, I I think one of the coolest things that you could ever do is prepare for a bodybuilding competition because you realize how your body reacts to food.

JOSE ANTONIO (39:52.673)
Yep. Yeah.

JOSE ANTONIO (40:03.638)
Yes.

Dr. Spencer Baron (40:04.212)
And I that was real that's really one of the coolest things that we were able to witness, you know, to get lean as possible with the most muscularity and see how your body responds to that and water and salt and all that cool stuff.

JOSE ANTONIO (40:19.949)
Yeah, and I think I think the purists, the science purists, often I don't they ignore it, but they tend to dismiss what people do. And I remember going back to when learning from my uncle who was, you know, he taught me karate, but he was a bodybuilder. He he d he did both. He said he I asked him, so how do you get lean for a contest? And and when you think about it, it's like, well, that's pretty simple and that's what people do. He goes, Well, when I wanna cut, I eat less rice.

When I wanna bulk I eat more protein. I was like,

That's kinda what people do now. I mean, 'cause you know, 'cause I don't know if you know my background, I'm Filipino. My I'm I was born in the Philippines where I grew up in the United States. So we eat rice, like we could literally eat rice every meal. So it's like rice, meat, veggie, rice, meat, veggie. So he's like, I'll just eat less rice, and if I eat less rice, I get cut. I was like, Wow, that's pretty simple. And then if I want to get bulked, I'll just eat more of everything, but I'll make sure I'll eat a lot more fish and pork and beef. So what he was doing in the seventies is like, okay, that's

That's kind what people do now, you know? The the whole protein thing. So you know, cut carbs to get ripped, etc. etc. So it's kind of funny.

Dr. Spencer Baron (41:32.984)
Go ahead, Terry.

Dr Terry (41:33.08)
you know we see these carnivore diet, the vegan diet, the vegetarian diet, what's your talk on protein whether it's plant-based or animal-based?

JOSE ANTONIO (41:42.795)
That is a fun question. First let's look at overall protein intake. When 'cause I get this question from vegans. I tell them

If your overall protein intake is high, quality probably doesn't matter as much. If your overall protein intake is low, and when I say low, let's say it's less than 1.5 grams per kilo, quality probably matters a lot more. But if you're eating just a lot of food and it's you're on a vegan diet, you're probably getting enough protein. The problem is you're probably getting too much carbs and fat, just because you're eating bulks of food. But you can get adequate protein on a vegan diet.

I think the best way to do that is to consume shakes. One of my colleagues at the university, she's a vegan. I always make fun of her because she has the stinkiest food ever. And her diet is like, it's all processed stuff. And here's the thing, she knows if she doesn't eat the way she eats, she'll get fat. So she's cognizant of the calories. So she'll eat like these vegan burgers and and shakes that are, you know, all vegan friendly or whatever the hell. It's like, God, it must suck being a vegan.

because it's just you're not having fun in life. now the the carnivore thing, this is what's funny. The few people I know that follow the carnivore diet are all ripped. Not a fat one in sight. So that that's a big plus. You're like, wow they're all ripped. Yeah they're all ripped.

Why are they ripped? Well they're ripped because they don't eat carbs and fat, which is the easiest way to get fat. If all I ate was pork, chicken, fish, bacon, what's left? Steaks, I don't know. What w you're kind of limited. Eggs maybe? yeah. Guess what? I'm not eating rice. I'm not eating bread. I'm not eating butter on bread. I'm not eating fried rice. So it's like, yeah, I'd probably lose twenty pounds just ca just because one, I'm eating only meat and it lim and remember it

Dr. Spencer Baron (43:25.291)
Yeah. Yeah.

JOSE ANTONIO (43:41.503)
It's almost impossible to get fat just eating protein. So the carnivore diet, mostly protein, it's you it's hard to get fat on it. So, you know, I don't tell people not to do it. It's like, you know what, do it. if you are trying to. I know there's dispute about whether you need all these carbs for performance. And I think if you want to train optimally, there's a certain amount of carbohydrate. It doesn't have to be high, but there's a certain amount of carbohydrate that you should consume. Zero carbohydrate.

I would not recommend for people performing in a sport. If you want to get on a podium, I don't think just eating steak all day will do that for you. So, but you know, to me, the diet, the best diet is the one you'll follow. I mean, if the carnivore works for you, do if ketogenic works for you, do it, if the vegan diet works for you, do it. I'm just a big fan of a mixed diet. just because

Part of the fun of being alive is eating f good food. I mean, you know, if all I'm eating is freaking bacon and steak. I mean I love bacon and steak, but there's gonna be a while where you know what, can I just have a piece of apple pie? How about that? I want apple pie today, you know, or or or creme brulee or some other piece of junk food that, you know makes my tongue happy.

Dr Terry (44:57.134)
I love that. Alright, what's the five non-negotiable rules for building a strong body and brain that will last you into your 80s?

Dr. Spencer Baron (45:01.59)
Yeah.

JOSE ANTONIO (45:10.679)
Five non-negotiable rules. Well, the first non-negotiable is you have to exercise. Now, it gets a little crazy because people I I watch on Instagram, you know, people like, this is the best exercise. Don't do zone two, do high-intensity interval training. Or everyone must lift weights, and if you lift weights, you must lift heavy weights. And I'm thinking, okay, I think, again, I'm a pragmatist, to me, the best exercise is what you can adhere to.

I my personal story. I go to the gym and lift weights, not because I don't want to. In fact, I hate it. I hate it. I'm like, shit, I better lift because it's good for me and all that bullshit. so I go lift. But my bread and butter exercise is actually paddling. I love to paddle. I live in South Florida. we live on the water, so I could just drop my board and paddle. I also belong to a group that does outrigger canoe paddling, so that's my bread and butter. However, I also know that paddling is probably not the best.

For promoting bone mineral density and things like that. You know, I think it's important.

When you go lift to learn how to now we're sort of sounding technical, to learn how to recruit high threshold motor units, right? Your body, your brain, you're basically teaching your brain, okay, how I need to always know how to recruit high threshold motor units. If my car breaks down, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I need to figure out how to push this car. And unless I've taught my brain how to do that, you're kind of shit out of luck. So exercise. And I don't I never argue with people, do hit, do zone two, do whatever you want, but do something. That's number one.

Number two, and some people say is it diet or is it sleep? Now in a way they're kind of interrelated, but exercise clearly is number one. There's not even a close number two, but number two and three would be sleep and or diet. You can put it in whatever order you want. Now sleep, most people probably actually don't sleep that well, maybe because of the stress of the job and whatnot. But getting enough sleep is probably one of the best recovery tools you can have.

JOSE ANTONIO (47:14.941)
Inadequate sleep seems to promote, make it easier for you to gain fat mass. So sleep and diet go hand in hand. Now you'd think sleep is easier than diet, but apparently for a lot of people sleep is not easy. So you know there's that. The diet part, again, this is where you people argue about diet all the time.

I think if you just limit the amount of junk you consume, eat mostly whole food, I think you're good. That's it. In fact, you people say, Should I do Okinawan diet or Mediterranean or this or that? I'm like, just don't eat a lot of junk. I mean, I still have ice cream on occasion. In fact, sometimes I'm like, God, I I could eat a whole pizza pie, so I'll get on DoorDash. I think I'm gonna eat a pizza today, so I eat a whole pizza, you know, just cause sometimes I'm craving it. But I usually don't. I mean most of my diet is actually just pretty good food.

I eat like most Asians, rice, meat, vegetables. That's my, you know, rice, meat, veggies, rice, meat, veggies. So, exercise, sleep, diet. Now, four and five, this is where it gets, you know, what's interesting about four and five is they're not really, I mean, they're more, I guess, cultural things like having a

Yes, we could make four. Having a group having close family and friends, having social connections I think is probably one of the most undervalued things, particularly since we live in such a large country where it's not like we live in Luxembourg and everyone like knows what everyone's doing. I mean Luxembourg's like the size of like my my car. So we live in this gigantic country where it's hard for people to know each people in Luxembourg would be like, Who is this MF for talking bad about Luxembourg? so at least I didn't say Moldova.

That's like like another tiny country out there. and I know some Moldovans. so yeah, that social connection, and I think that that comes from family and also having a sort of a peer group that you you you know that you think like, I mean, and you enjoy each other's company. I mean for me a lot of it is my science friends and whatnot. and then I think the fifth thing, and this is where, you know, so

JOSE ANTONIO (49:19.265)
We got exercise, we got sleep, we got diet, we got, you know, this peer group. And the fifth thing, which is kinda related to one, two, and three, don't be fat. You just can't you can't be fat. And the reason I bring that up is I have friends who've been bodybuilding forever. I mean since they were twenties. And I tell them on occasion that have you ever seen a muscular person live long?

The answer is no, you really don't. Now, people like, hey, Jack Lelane lived to 94. Jack Lane was small. He was lean, he lifted, he exercised a lot, but he was actually small. Large people, it doesn't matter if they're fat or muscular, in general, don't live long. Now, the problem is this is in conflict. A lot of guys want to be large and muscular when they're young. And as you get older, it's like

That actually probably won't contribute to healthy aging. Now, I have friends who argue with me about this all the time. They're like, bro, you know, I'm 210 pounds ripped. I'm like, yeah, but you don't see 210 pounds ripped people living long. I mean, and it it's it's okay to be 210 and ripped or 220, whatever. Pick the weight.

But sh but they tend not to live long. Look at basketball players. All that mass, they don't live it's rare to see an old basketball player. It's rare. you don't see sumo wrestlers living long. you don't see outside of Arnold Schwarzenegger, let's see. Do any of these old time bot the the Dave Drapers, the Lufrignos, the Franco Colombo I mean these guys are not gonna live that long. They're not gonna live into their

eighties. So so body weight, you know, I think people dismiss it a little bit, but body weight is a huge issue. And I don't know how tall you guys are, but apparently if you're male and you're five eight or shorter, you live long. Yes, I'm five eight. Yeah, if you're taller than five eight, you ain't how tall are you, Dr. Terry? yeah, well apparently

Dr Terry (51:14.958)
great. Well, I'm going to hear that one now. I'm five, six foot.

Dr. Spencer Baron (51:22.836)
Five five.

JOSE ANTONIO (51:28.577)
The five fivers are gonna beat out the six footers, so

Dr Terry (51:31.15)
Yeah, but it's been until then we can rest our beer on his head. it's, you know. Yes, it is.

JOSE ANTONIO (51:37.357)
Hey, there's advantages to being tall and that's one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so yeah, I think those five things, I mean and what's funny is that as you get older, as I get older, I start to think more in terms of

Dr. Spencer Baron (51:43.774)
Yeah, there you go.

JOSE ANTONIO (51:55.047)
that then okay I need to do this faster or I need to do this better. It's like, how about I just need to do this and not be injured. So it's crazy. It's crazy.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:02.176)
Yeah.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:05.924)
yeah. All right. So now we are nearing the end of the show, but our favorite part of the show, or one of our favorite parts, is the rapid fire questions. I got five of for ya. Now when I say rapid fire, that means short answers, so we can get through in the reasonable period of time we have left. That's true. Are you ready for question number one? All right, here we go. When you helped

JOSE ANTONIO (52:24.225)
So it has to be a rapid fire answer.

Let's go.

Dr. Spencer Baron (52:34.976)
People, or when you helped build that International Society of Sports Nutrition, did you ever imagine that one day social media influencers would have a larger audience than many scientists? Is that a kind of exciting or is it terrifying or both?

JOSE ANTONIO (52:51.005)
N no, I think I you what, actually I love social media despite the good and the bad. I think overall it's a good thing, especially for an academic society, because it helps get the information out there. So I'm a big fan of social media.

Dr. Spencer Baron (53:03.03)
Nice to hear. Question number two. You've spent years battling this protein myth. Now, if I gave you a time machine and one billboard in Times Square and let's go back to 1995, what single sentence about protein would you put on that billboard that would have saved decades of confusion?

JOSE ANTONIO (53:25.793)
I would have said protein will help you keep your muscle mass, which will help you live longer, prevent sarcopenia.

Dr. Spencer Baron (53:31.638)
Nice. All right, question number three, Dr. Antonio. What's an opinion you've held in sports medicine that got you most criticism initially, but eventually turned out to be largely correct?

JOSE ANTONIO (53:46.878)
that's an easy one. My my overall position that sports supplements are worthwhile and they work.

Dr. Spencer Baron (53:56.064)
Question number four, what's one nutrition rule people should stop obsessing over?

JOSE ANTONIO (54:02.567)
stop obsessing over you know, drinking X number of glasses of water a day. It's a it's a big waste of time. Stop carrying those stupid jugs on airplanes, goddammit. There's just just just ask the flight attendant for a bottle of water.

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:15.766)
Beautiful. Thank you for that. That's great. And finally, you're you're doing so well so far. Question number five. Here we go. You've spent a lifetime helping people build stronger bodies. At this stage of your life, what do you think is more important? Adding years to your life or adding life to your years? And how do you personally try to do both?

JOSE ANTONIO (54:39.627)
Yeah, health you know, health span versus li lifespan, I think I actually don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think but I think health span's much more important. You don't want to be a ninety-year-old cripple. You'd rather be n someone who's eighty-five and fully functional. So if you if given the choice, I'll take health span.

Dr. Spencer Baron (54:55.274)
Hey, thank you thank you so much for being on the show and being so animated and informative and you have definitely made a mark in the world of nutrition. Thank you for being part of it.

JOSE ANTONIO (55:09.739)
You're welcome. I appreciate being on the show and hopefully people can figure out what I s would say what have said af you know, I I sort of go on these tangents and and I apologize. I sometimes don't even know what you guys asked. I'm like, I'll just

Dr Terry (55:19.03)
I love it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:21.285)
no.

Dr Terry (55:22.519)
Love it, love it.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:24.042)
That's great 'cause when you're a pioneer you tell a lot of stories, right?

JOSE ANTONIO (55:27.405)
Yeah, my students are like, he's gonna tell another story.

Dr. Spencer Baron (55:33.192)
Here he comes. Yeah. Thanks again, Doctor Antonio. You bet.

JOSE ANTONIO (55:37.444)
Thank you.